Unaltered Bonding Question

[Dave]

I was wondering if anyone on this forum knows of a few ways to determine if two unaltered rabbits are bonded or not without giving them access to each other?  I am going to change their set up so they can’t see each other to see if I can tell from that.  I am then going to move them to separate rooms.  If it turns into chaos for both rabbits, I will be able to tell if they are bonded sort of. 

How bonded can unaltered rabbits be?  How will they act if they are partially bonded and separated? 

[bunnyfofo]

What sex are the rabbits? You don’t want to put two unaltered males together, you will have very bad results.  Two unaltered femals will be likely to fight as well. Your best bet is to get them fixed first then after about two monthes slowly introduce them in neutral territory like the bath room. Only have short visits and always end on a good note, don’t wait untill they have a fight before ending the session. You can also put their cages were they can see each other but not touch. I found it helpful to switch the cages every day ( bunny #1 in cage A and bunny #2 in cage B one day then the next day Bunny #1 in cage B and bunny #2 in Cage A and so on). Check out the info on bonding on the website it is very helpfull and has some great tips.

[Beka27]

They may not act like being separated bothers them. I’m not really sure. My altered, bonded pair spends time apart, sometimes hours, by choice and they don’t seem distraught or anything. Are they same sex?

People have asked this regarding pet store bunnies, they have them together in big cages, unaltered.  But I don’t know that they really bond in the petstore.  I think that being unaltered makes them not as likely to bond.  If they like each other, it’s just more likely to be due to young age rather than a real bond.  If they are adulst, they should be altered, of course.

[BunnyMuffin]

I’m a little confused by your post. Are you trying to bond two unaltered rabbits in order to have them live together in one enclosure and share everything? Or are you planning to separate two bunnies that have been living in cages near each other and are concerned about them being stressed out by being split up?

As mkeene mentioned, 2 unaltered rabbits of the same sex will generally fight. But you obviously don’t want to put unaltered rabbits of opposite sexes together either because we don’t want babies! So if you do want to bond and put them together, I would also advise having them altered and going through the bonding process.

But, if the only interaction the bunnies have had is being able to see each other through cages, I don’t think that would be enough for them to be “bonded” in the traditional sense and for them to be upset by being separated. Normally it’s quite a process to convince bunnies to bond – the “love at first sight” version is pretty rare. So if separation is key and they haven’t had much interaction with each other, there probably won’t be much of a bunny uprising. However, you can expect territorial poos from any rabbit that gets relocated to a new room because they will want to mark it as their own.

Are there specific behaviours that make you feel like they might be bonded through a fluke love at first sight through the cages? (I don’t even know if that’s possible… 😛 )

[Beka27]

Yeah, maybe we need more info. BunnyMuffin brings up a great point. I don’t believe you have bonded bunnies if they are not housed together. They may get along enough to be allowed playtime together, but until they are together 24/7 and able to share food/litterboxes/groom each other and snuggle, I don’t consider them bonded.

[Dave]

The two rabbits are male and female.  They are unaltered.  They are housed in separate cages.

[Sarita]

Is this your foster pair? The mama with the babies and the father? Have you had the dad neutered yet?

[Dave]

Yes they came in together and Jane was pregnant before she came in.  They were immediately separated when I got them.  They are the funniest bunnies. 

[Sarita]

I think it’s going to be hard to determine whether they are bonded since you cannot put them together since they aren’t aleterd and it’s possible too that now the bond is broken.

[MarkBun]

To the professional bonders, there’s no such thing as an unbondable pair – it just means a lot of hard work in some instances. Personally, I believe that if you have both of them altered, you should be able to bond them together over time.

[Rippy]

I found this old Topic to hijack because I need advice on a similar situation.

I have two Bunny’s, a recently altered 7 month old male and an unaltered 4 month old female. I don’t want to have her spayed for another 6-8 months but would like to try and start bonding them in two weeks when he is fully recoverd from his neuter.
So here is the situation; I had the male for four months and the female for two, they live in the same room and have line of sight. When one or the other is outside they go visit each other and the male grooms her frequently thrue the cage. On two times she escaped her cage when was petting her and he was outside. Once when she was still a baby and had to run and duck, the second case was about a month ago when they started circling each other and I had to pull them apart fast (I didn’t react fast because I was curious but no damage done or nips).
Now because of the neuter the males hormones are going down and he does not mark or go into sex frenzy as he used to from time to time but the female is starting to pop a bit near his cage (on a box so I’m not too fussed) .

Is it a good idea to try and bond them when she is unaltered? Here are two pictures of there daily interactions so far she likes to be groomed but never returns the favor (not even a kiss to me ), and he loves to groom . So far I never noticed any boxing or nips even tho she sometimes does twitch when he grooms her but always sticks her nose out for more.

[MarkBun]

He’s grooming her because he wants to make babies with her. Even with the removal of his ‘equipment’ and the hormones therein, he is still hard wired to the scent of an unaltered female. I would personally not attempt to start the bonding process until she is fixed as well because the seperation time from the surgery and recovery as well as the change in her scent due to the loss of her hormones would more than likely have to start the bonding process all over again.

Although I do love the longing picture of him.

[Beka27]

Also, she is still just before HER puberty time. Within the next month or so, she will become aggressive towards him as her hormones take effect… and so there’s really no point in trying to bond them now b/c it won’t work and they’ll have to be separated anyways. Many people have tried to bond with only one of a pair altered, and they end up causing so much trouble trying to do it prematurely, that the bond is even more difficult afterwards.

Is there a reason why you don’t want to alter until she is a year old? This is usually done at 6 months.

[Rippy]

Well they share the same play area and I would like to double there play time. They don’t get too angry at me if I spend time with one or the other but still it would be nice for them to spend time outside together. Another reason is that I wont have as much time as I have now in a few months which would mean that they would only have about 2h outside there cages each. So it would be very good if I could get them to a stage where they can both play outside without trying to murder each other with there furry paws (I have never noticed them trying to do so as they interact thru the wires).

MarkBun are you saying that Shmoo (the white bunny male) would constantly try to make baby Schmo’s even tho he has no “ammunition”?

Beka because it will take me that long to recover from his surgery . But on a more serious note I would like to wait till she is a bit older. At that age I plan to start changing her diet to partial vegetables too.

[Monkeybun]

Rippy, even though he is neutered, his hormones won’t be completely gone for around a month after the surgery. SO yeah.. he still wants to make babies Make sure he can’t, as he is still able to!

You can start giving her veggies as young as 12 weeks old, why wait til she is almost a year? And younger bunnies seem to bounce back faster after a surgery too.

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