Trouble at the Vet – Update – Need Advice

[Dobby]

I am boarding my two guys at the vet’s office while I’m out of town.  I opted for the vet instead of a sitter because Pip is on some medication.  I just left on Wednesday and won’t get back until next Saturday.  I’m traveling for work and am on the other side of the country so there is really no way I can cut the trip short.

But I just got a call from the vet letting me know that, during play time out of their cage, they were pretty aggressively humping each other.  It’s to the point that the vet feels Pip’s private parts need some icing down because they are so red and irritated.  They seem OK in their cage together but the vet is going to let them out separately for play time from now on.  She’s also told the technicians to watch them closely in their cage. 

She thinks it may be that, in a new environment, they are trying to reassert their dominance.  

Has anyone had similar problems in the past?  I’m hoping that as they get used to the place they will calm down and that no serious damage will be done to their bond but I’m also worried.

[Baxter n Boos Mom]

We board our buns at the vets every time we travel, and we’ve never had this issue. Hope they calm down soon…

[LBJ10]

I don’t have any personal experience with this, but I can see how some bunnies might feel threatened in a new environment like that and want to reassert their dominance.

[LittlePuffyTail]

I think separate run time is a good idea while they are there. My guess is new environment is causing stress. You may have to work on rebonding when you are back but maybe not. They might be fine when you bring them home again.

[Dobby]

They are back home and seem fine. In fact, I don’t know that I’ve ever seen them this happy. They are exploring and binkying like crazy.

The only slight negative is that Dobby is having some runny stools. I called the vet as soon as I noticed (about an hour after we got home) and they think it could just be the stress. He’s eating a lot of hay so I’m hoping everything will be back to normal tomorrow morning.

[tanlover14]

Mine do this when they are put somewhere near or different so I always see it as pretty normal. It’s usually my one boy that does it to everyone.

Glad to hear they seem fine now that they’re back home though. Sending vibes for your Dobby though!

[Dobby]

I thought everything was good when we got home from their boarding at the vet. As I mentioned earlier, their first night back was great. The second night there was some humping, which I hadn’t seen at home in quite awhile. But their was no aggression, so I let it be. It seemed to lessen each night.

Today I got home from work and noticed some clumps of fur on the ground from both of them. I checked for injuries right away and didn’t see any. They were acting a bit strange but not fighting or humping so I just decided to watch them carefully. (Dobby is molting a bit now so I wasn’t entirely convinced his hair was from a fight.)

They seemed to start behaving like their old selves as the night went on. Dobby even groomed Pip, but I never saw Pip groom Dobby. They seemed to be content and hanging out next to each other and I wasn’t paying as close attention to them as I had been earlier in the night. Then all of sudden they were in full on fur pulling, biting, fighting mode. I separated them as quickly as I could with a blanket. I picked up Dobby to completely separate them and tried to calm him down. For once in his life he was OK being held. They never fought like this while bonding.

After he seemed a little calmer I put them back together. I petted them both and they were happy to hang out while I petted them. Dobby even groomed Pip a bit. Pip still refused to groom Dobby after several requests. I also gave them a treat while they were calm and next to each other.

Now my two concerns are what to do with them tonight and what to do with them tomorrow while I’m at work. They’ve never had any problems in their cage together, so I’m tempted to put them in their tonight. I’m in a studio, so I’d hear trouble right away. Tomorrow I’m thinking of separating them with a pet gate while I’m at work, so they can still be right next to each other but not be able to pull fur.

Then I guess I would need to work on rebonding when I got home. Is that pretty much the same as bonding? Do I decrease their space and them see how it goes? Every place in my apartment has now been explored by both of them but I’m guessing neutral space doesn’t matter now.

Ugh. This has been an absolutely horrible week for me and I really did not need this. My fun work trip to Hawaii resulted in me getting sick and spending a night in the emergency room, which has to be followed by months of follow up treatment. And now fighting bunnies when I need to go to bed!!

[jerseygirl]

Oh man, sorry to hear that! Hope some better luck is coming your way.

I’d personally cage them overnight if that’s where they are doing best.
Mending a bond shouldn’t be as extensive as initial bonding.
I would say the troubles do have a bit to do with stress. Also, molting (can make them cranky) or a bunny feeling unwell can factor in. Both could also still be picking up on foriegn scents on each other from being handled by the staff.

[Dobby]

I put them in their cage last night. I only heard them once, and I think that may have just been because some of the pine pellets made noise when they were getting out of the litter box. Today they are both in the kitchen but separated by a gate. I put their litters, food and blankets right next to the gate, thinking that this will keep them near each other for a lot of the day. I hope this won’t hurt their bond but I was too worried to leave them together while I wasn’t there.

[Dobby]

I’m home from work and basically just have them confined to the kitchen. There was some brief grooming of Pip by Dobby. Otherwise they are just exploring and eating each other’s hay. Do I need to do anything else? If not, I’ll probably do this same thing again tomorrow (separated while I’m at work and in the kitchen together when I’m home) and then let them out into their normal space over the weekend, where I can watch them most of the time.

[LittlePuffyTail]

That’s what I would so, separate them while you are away and keep a close eye on them over the weekend.

[tanlover14]

Don’t forget, you can always stress bond them to help strengthen their bond a bit again.

It sounds like it’s not too bad so I would continue what you’re doing! Let us know how it progresses.

[Dobby]

I thought we were doing really well. The weekend went by with no problems between them while they were in their normal allotment of space – the living room and kitchen. There was mutual grooming and some cuddling. It was a somewhat stressful weekend because we had more visitors than normal. (My parents came down for the weekend because I can’t travel for awhile. I also had a few other people stop by, which is very unusual.) Dobby seemed to like the visitors, although his poop indicated he was stressed, while Pip acted nervous most of the time but has had no eating/pooping problems.

I figured that after the weekend we were home free. But about 10 minutes ago they started fighting again. I happened to be watching them and have no idea why. Dobby was sitting in the living room. Pip came over to him. Then all of a sudden they were circling each other. This quickly progressed to pulling fur. I picked Pip up to prevent any injuries.

Now I’ve pulled out the grocery cart I first started boding them in. They are in their now and I think Pip is grooming Dobby. (So confusing!!) I may take them for a “walk” around the living room to add some stress to the mix. But we’ve all been so stressed the last week or so that I don’t know if more stress is needed.

They still have had no issues in their cage. Should I try to keep them in there for the day? Not ideal in terms of giving them space to exercise, but it would just be for a day or two. I’ll be around, except for a few hours in the afternoon.

[Zombie-Sue]

I think that if they have no issues there, that’s where you should keep them for a little while.

They might get kind of bored and want to stretch their legs, but a couple days inactivity won’t kill them and hopefully this will all go away. After a couple days I’d slowly increase their space with an x pen if you have one available.

[Dobby]

I’ve had them either in their cage together (where they are fine), separated in the kitchen (while I’m at work), or in a small area of the living room since Monday. When I tried to let them back into the entire living room yesterday – after a day of hanging out, napping next to each other, and some grooming in the small space – they started fighting again! Ugh.

I’ve been trying to watch them carefully and thought I saw them getting a bit agitated at one point tonight. When that happened I put them into the grocery cart and we went for a walk around the living room. They were incredibly mad at me for doing this. Both of them refused the treats I offered afterwords. Now they are once again hanging out in their small section of the living room.

I’ve also smeared both of their foreheads with baby apple sauce for the past two nights to encourage some grooming. They were both in heaven while being groomed. Dobby noticed the apple sauce on Pip while he was in a litter box and Pip was outside of it. Dobby started grooming Pip and Pip rested his head on the side of the litter. Once Dobby stopped, Pip just stayed there, half asleep and seemingly totally comfortable. It was pretty cute.

I plan on slowly expanding their space for the next week or two. I was hoping this wouldn’t be a drawn out process but, as is often the case, my hopes are not panning out. Good thing I can’t travel for awhile. 😉

[Dobby]

Well so far my plan is not working well. They spent the entire day together today, in a sectioned off portion of the living room and kitchen. They took part of their naps near each other, there was mutual grooming, pellet munching, etc. I thought we were doing really well. Then, as I’m getting ready for bed, I hear them running around. At first I thought it was just Dobby going for his evening run. Then I realized it was both of them. Because I didn’t see it I’m not sure if it started out as running around which then lead to chasing and fighting or if the fight just started. I separated them and calmed them down a bit and then just watched them. Pip suddenly lunged at Dobby.

I just don’t get it. They seemed so friendly today and then this fight explodes.

They are now in their cage where there have been no problems, eating their salad. They will stay there tonight. They also have more apple sauce on their foreheads.

I really don’t know what else to do. Does anyone have any ideas?

[Dobby]

The cage is no longer safe. There was a big fight in there this morning. After calming them down and watching their body language it looked like they could have fought at any moment so they are currently separated by a pet gate – one in the kitchen and one in the living room. They are both now content eating their pellets.

Should I keep them separated for now? Should I give them a few weeks off and start bonding over like they’ve never been bonded before? Or should I try them together in a very small place right away? I can keep them in the grocery cart for a few hours and then move to a very small part of the kitchen.

[Zombie-Sue]

Yeah, I’d say give them separate enclosures right now and start over bonding them. After they’ve fought so much, I wouldn’t start for a little while, I’d give them a little time to forget all the fighting.

Sorry about your bun buns. In my short experience (I’ve only done it twice) that’s kind of how fighting works. They’ll all be getting along just fine and then it kind of comes out of nowhere. There might be a clear cause, like one of the buns will nip or lunge at the other, but it seems like the initial attack is unprovoked most of the time. If only we knew what they were thinking.

A rest will help you release some of your discouragement too. I’m sure that this was really heartbreaking for you.

[tanlover14]

Hmmm, I would start them over after about two weeks of breaks. Once you start bonding though, do not separate when they argue. It will put them into the mentality that if they fight, they will get what they want – the other rabbit away from them. It will create a cycle with them of them believing fighting will have that effect on you and make you separate them. You DO NOT want your bunnies to think fighting will get them anything.

I say wait two weeks or even a week n a half because they have been scuffling so much I would be worried they are just too agitated and flustered by the other bunny to keep going. Separated time for awhile will help ease whatever agitation and frustration they are feeling so you are more likely to have a better success next time around. If that makes sense!

[Dobby]

OK, we will take a week or two off. Do you think I should totally separate them or do you think just having a gate between them is enough? The latter is much easier for me but I could do the former if the general consensus is that it’s for the best.

And, Tanlover, I will definitely try not to separate them when we restart if they fight. I was trying my best to not do that this time but it just didn’t seem to make things better. Do you think I need to be worried about neutral space? There really isn’t any place that I would now consider neutral but I could always block off the bathroom for the next week and a half and give it a thorough cleaning.

Also, I just remembered that when I was looking for a roommate for Dobby, one of the rescue groups near me said they would bond them if I found a friend for him that was not part of the rescue. They said they would stay at someone else’s place to be bonded. I wonder if they’d be able to help with the rebond. Of course, taking them someplace new is what seems to have started this whole thing so that might not be the best idea.

One thing is for sure. I will do everything in my power to avoid boarding at the vet again!!

[tanlover14]

If they can co-exist peacefully without anyone getting agitated, there’s no reason not to just baby gate them separate. It’s just if they become agitated or aggressive through it that you will want to separate completely as you don’t want it to be “taunting” them into getting angry.

I kind of wonder if something specific happened at the vets that triggered the falling out. I don’t think it’s a bad thing to let the rescue try either. Taking them somewhere with complete neutral territory to re-bond and continue it may be a positive thing, not a negative. Stressing them out in a new area will also help re-trigger their bonding as it will force them to rely on each other in a new scary place. I would definitely think about it if I were you!

[Zombie-Sue]

Taking them somewhere with complete neutral territory to re-bond and continue it may be a positive thing, not a negative

I’d like to second this. It seems to me that with their bond already pretty dissolved, you can’t really take too many more steps backward.

[Dobby]

I spoke with someone from the rescue last night and they are willing to take the bunnies to rebond them. The rescue estimates she has bonded about 1,000 bunnies so she is truly an expert! It won’t be until the middle of the month but we can survive with separate areas and play time until then.

Thanks for all of the advice Tanlover and Zombie-Sue.

[LittlePuffyTail]

1000 Bunnies! Wow! You are lucky you have someone able to help you. Best of luck!!!

[Dobby]

Pip is out in the living room for playtime right now. I hadn’t heard him for a little while so I looked around to see where he was. And I found him grooming Dobby through the pet gate. I felt a little mean keeping them separated. These two seem to have a love-hate relationship right now.

[Zombie-Sue]

Lol, that’s a common observation among people who are currently bonding rabbits. I think they can keep eachother company, even through the bars. Don’t feel bad.

[Sindri]

Ahh I am glad you have someone that will help you with rebonding your rabbits. It must be a relief to know soon you will get what sounds like really great help. From what you just wrote about Pip grooming Dobby I bet it will turn out great. I wish you luck and look forward to hearing how everything goes.

[Author]

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