Trio Bond MxFxM

[Enkidu]

Any advise, tips and general knowledge would be greatly appreciated.

A little background. We rescued a male harlequin/rex bunny when he was about a month old. Kept him separate from our current MxF bonded pair and raised him to about 6 months old. Got him neutered and waited a month for introductions.

First day: female wanted nothing to do with the process, kept trying to jump on us or out the space. Males mostly ignored each other but humped once or twice.

Day two: started out okay with some humping. Then circling- we broke up, then they ignored. Humped, circled, ignored then laid down next to each other while we pet them. Let them lay there for for few mins then ended session like that.

Day three: The breakage. Sess started out like others then somebody must of rang the bell because the fight was ON. Both males went at it like fight club. Chasing, scratching, biting. We separated them once to see if they would calm, no. So attempted to end the session when the new male bit me so hard in my hand I actually lifted him 2′ off off ground by reflex while raising my arm. I’m not proud of it :(.

After these bonding sessions we have kept the new male apart in the kitchen and the MxF pair in the living room.

Here’s where I need advice – sorry for the long post. The MxF bond has broken, they fought bad last night and we separated. Then this morning letting them out yielded another fight in several mins. Almost seems like our older bun – the female 8 years old, is scared of any male bunny. The male lop will approach her and she will run, then run back towards him to sniff him, this scares him and he reacts.

Should we rebound this pair separate then introduce the new male in a few weeks. Or would it be easier to bond all 3 as separate buns? It would make our life easier if we could have the original MxF buns together again as we don’t have tons and tons of space here.

Thanks again for any help or comments xoxo. I have attempted asking in other bunny groups but the only advice I got is the new males hormones are probably still active in his body after a month and it’s driving him.

D&C.

[DanaNM]

Hi there, I feel your pain, I recently attempted a quad and the males were fighting so badly I called it quits (I got a bite on my hand that my thumb is still numb from). Unfortunately it is pretty common for the  current pair to split when trying a trio, especially after a bad fight during bonding. I wouldn’t say it’s hormones necessarily, because that sort of interaction can happen with any combo of bunnies.

I think if you want to try for the trio for sure, then I would take a step back, let everyone calm down, and do some pre-bonding with all three bunnies. So keep all three separated, but then swap who’s in what pen every day or so. Ideally they could live side by side as neighbors. Do this until it seems like they have all calmed down a bit. If it’s too much for them to see each other (like the males are just running the fence and acting agro), you can hang up a towel or blanket to block their view at first.

If you would rather just have 1 pair and 1 single and not worry about the trio, then you will want to focus on rebonding them. Was either bunny injured badly? If so, it will be harder to rebond. The process is the same though, let them calm down for a few weeks with no bonding sessions, then do pre-bonding for a bit, then sessions in neutral territory.

I wouldn’t go through the trouble to do the pair and then the trio after, because it’s very likely the pair would just break up again anyway during trio sessions. The dynamic of groups is different than pairs, so they need to sort out their dominance as a group. That said, you can work on individual pairs in the trio process separately. Like if you feel the males will be the hardest, you could work with them a bit separately before trying all three together again.

When you do resume sessions, be sure your space is super neutral, and possibly a bit stressful (maybe go for some car rides first). If you tried a small space, try a large one next time. I’ve found that when buns want to fight, giving them more space helps them move away from each other and gives me more time to intervene (vs. a tiny space where they just latch on immediately).

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Enkidu]

Thank you for the reply Dana :). So it’s been a little over 24hrs since their last bad bonding session. No bunny was badly injured, just hair pulled and the lop has a scratch mark on his skin we are watching but it’s healing good.

At this point I’m thinking of taking all 3 on a car ride – or both males, on a car ride them switching the home situations up for a couple hrs.

Right now the old MxF pair live in living room taking turns in their large cage and one out. Going to swap one into the Kitchen so they can see each other in turns in the living room and see how this goes.

Based on your advice we are going to take a step back, crank the patience dial to 10 and swap living spaces for a week. Then a car ride and a bonding sess in the tub after I clean it a night prior. Dont have anywhere else stressful to try except our carrier on top of the dryer or something. We do want the trio so not going to waste our time then on rebonding MxF.

Will keep things updated as we go through our trio adventure.

D&C

[DanaNM]

Sounds like a good plan, keep us posted!

The only other tidbit I would add is that it’s very important to prevent fights from occurring, so don’t be afraid to have your hands on them a lot in the beginning (def wear thick leather gloves!). Also doing very short sessions at first can help after stressing. So maybe you could do car rides daily or alternate days (if they stress easily) for a few days, then do a car ride followed by a 5-10 min session. Then start increasing the length of the sessions if that goes well.

 

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[DanaNM]

Also, this trio journal might be helpful to you! https://binkybunny.com/forums/topic/bonded-trio-journal-luna-atlas-and-nimbus/

She had a similar situation where the current pair split in the process but ended up with a happy trio at the end.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[pinkiemarie]

I’m also doing a trio but I have 2 bonded males and a solo female. I will tell you it’s been almost 2 years and I’ve taken a glacial pace for exactly this reason. My boys are so in love and I’m afraid of losing their bond. A few things from my experience that may or may not hold true for you…

1. Prebonding is a very good idea with integrating the smells and using each other’s litter boxes first.

2. I had an incident in which one of my rabbits broke into the area another rabbit was playing in and ended up seriously injured. It’s ok to take a break after a major incident so everyone can calm down. It’s also a good idea to review how you have them separated to make sure you aren’t missing a way they can get at each other. Also make sure you always have 2 layers of divider between them so they can’t bite and paw. During play time mine have an xpen with some nic cubes zip tied together about 6 inches out so they can see and smell but not touch.

3. Car rides helped immensely and you might want to try it first with just the previously bonded pair.

4. We’ve got it set up now where is easy to trade them back and forth between the pair and solo and it’s not gonna be the end of the world if they never bond, so think about what your permanent set-up will be if it’s a long bond and get set up like that now. This will be harder while the previous pair is mad at each other but if you didn’t do a lot of prebonding, I would suggest trying to rebond them and then just prebonding for a while until they no longer get upset when the smell that the other bunny has used their box.

5. I was resistant to solo dates because I didn’t want to lose the bond but I’ve actually had much more success having only one of the boys with her at a time. The boys would get jealous and to be honest she gets along better with one of them and if it were just those 2 they would have bonded 2 years ago. So if he annoys her, she takes it out on the other one. Having them separated on dates has kept him from getting in trouble with her all the time for things he didn’t do and I think it has helped decrease her aggression towards him. He used to be aggressive but now he’s very submissive and she’s having to see him more as a submissive rabbit without his brother there climbing all over her.

[Enkidu]

Thanks for the reply and your advice pinkie!

We are right now switching their living spaces for a couple hrs Max even though we don’t live in the largest of abodes.

For example younger submissive male lives in kitchen where he free roams 24/7.

Older male lives in living room and shares it with female. They alternate between being in cage or kitchen and letting each other see one another without a chance of nipping or aggression. Although if left alone even for a moment they WILL fight like a Hollywood picture.

We will most likely take turns doing solo pairings in the car for quick trips and alternating living situations.

Although just this morning now we got an unpleasant surprise. Our female bunny has started sneezing again…it’s not anything big like the sneezing fits she would have a month ago but we are taking NO chances and already went to the vet and got Baytril. So now we definitely will keep them separated and no car rides. Just swapping places and observe.

This may very well seal our bonding adventure for a few weeks. Just to play it safe with the health of all Three bunnies.

Will keep you all posted, if interested, in how Psyron (the female dwarf) is feeling and our bonding situation.

Thanks again for the responses both of you 🙂 

D&C

[pinkiemarie]

A few weeks of prebonding never hurt anybunny so just do your thing for a little bit, it’ll be ok!

[Enkidu]

I apologize if this slight necro-post is not allowed. Just an update.

So the female Netherland Dwarf Psyron got injured during a trio bonding session and doesn’t trust either male currently.

Everybody is separated and gets switched around once a day. No bonding sessions are currently happening.

Both males are kind of getting along but we still have hopes for a trio bond months in the future. So we are not pushing for a single bond atm too hard.

health update: Psyron has now been through 2 rounds of Baytril, 2 rounds of Dexocycline, a round of eye drops and a round of surolan for ear wax.

Psyron is still having bad sneezing fits, so the vet is now suggesting an intramuscular injection of Penicillin G procain. I’m a bit worried about this, it will be once a week. Vet doesn’t seem too worried about the side effects but seeing as she is 7 years old and the snuffles has held pretty tight for the past 2 1/2 months I’m worries regardless.

Anyway, that’s enough of my worried rant. Her first injection is tm after I get off work.

Cheers bunny parents.

[DanaNM]

Thanks for the update, sorry to hear about Psyron. 🙁 Hopefully the pen injections help clear things up. I had to give a bun sub-cutaneous penicillin shots and he handled them like a champ.

Agree it’s best to wait until everyone is healthy to resume sessions. How badly was Psyron injured?

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Wick & Fable]

Sorry to hear about Psyron. One of my rabbits actually had a very persistent upper respiratory infection and penicillin shots was the last treatment we tried because it ended up working in tandem with Baytril. At that point, he had been sneezing for over 4 months, so don’t feel too disheartened by the time line!

The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.

[Enkidu]

Thank you Dana and wick for the replies :).

That raises my hopes a bit knowing bunnies that have pulled through the shots and have sneezed as long/longer than our current time line.

Dana – Psyron had a good scratch on her side that we thought had the end of a nail in it. Turns out it was just a little scab so we kept an eye on it for infection/soreness and she healed right up. Scratch was about a finger nail and a half in length and the scab about half a dime in size.

 

[DanaNM]

Oh that’s good it healed up!

Fingers crossed the pen shots clear everything up!

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

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