Training a teenage rabbit too young to be neutered

[Leasch]

Hello all

My little Flemish tyrant Loofah is going through his teenage period. I love him to pieces but his behaviour drives me nuts sometimes!

I’m new to rabbits. I feel like I have gained a breadth of knowledge through research before picking him up after the covid19 lockdown. I am raising this question because I’m finding it difficult to track down specific advice relating to my situation.

I found a vet that specialises in exotic animals. They advised me they can’t neuter him until he reaches sexual maturity (5-6 months). I’m glad they’re thorough. My rabbit’s just over 4 months. He’s clever, learned the litterbox instantly with increasing incidents more recently due to territorial impulses. This could also be due to him becoming super comfortable in his new home. When he acts up I remain calm, try to show him his box as he raises his tail. I neutralise accidents straight away unless I’ve been out. I try not to pick him up as he hates it and I want him to associate it with good things through other training. I’m kind, thorough but am afraid this repetition is teaching him bad habits. Alongside this my vet advised me that neutering doesn’t necessarily solve this problem. I’m getting him fixed when he’s old enough (for all positive reasons). In the meantime I am interested in understanding and working with my lovely pal.

Putting the debatable issue of neutering/behaviour aside, there must be a solution for teenage rabbits that reduces this repetitive behaviour. I enjoyed this page about rabbit behaviour and found that it head helped tremendously:

http://language.rabbitspeak.com/r-e-s-p-e-c-t-is-what-my-bun-demands-of-me/

Has anyone had any genius ideas they’d like to share?

Many thanks for your advice in advance.

In turn I look forward to returning the favor by sharing my experience on this forum in future.

Thanks 🙂

[DanaNM]

Not sure about the behavioral stuff, but just wanted to say that males can be neutered younger than females can be spayed (really as soon as their testicles drop), so you might see if you can find a vet that is more comfortable with the procedure. The fact that your vet doesn’t think neutering will help with the behaviors is also odd, because those sound like typical hormonal boy bunny behaviors to me! Does this vet see a lot of rabbits?

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Wick & Fable]

I also share the same curiosity with Dana, in that your vet mentioned two things I would not typically expect. One is that neutering males should wait until 5-6 months, and second is that neutering will not improve the behaviors you mentioned.

For the former, perhaps it’s something on the vet’s end where he/she/they are not personally comfortable with operating on a rabbit who’s that young, but from my experience and what I’ve discussed with others, many male rabbits are neutered much earlier. It is less risky than a spay, which is more invasive, and some parts of a spay may be incomplete because the rabbit is not fully developed yet. With males, as soon as the testes descend, they are good to go generally, haha.

For the latter, I read many of those behaviors as being hormonal. A neuter may not be a miracle finger snap, but understanding that many of those behavioral instances are driven by the hormonal urge to mark, defend, and mate makes it unusual to believe a neuter would not improve them. The week approaching my Wick’s neuter, he’d spray me constantly (something he hadn’t done until his testes dropped). The day after the neuter, he sprayed me once, and then never again.

First and foremost, I think having a gut-instinct of whether a vet seems capable is important. Especially when starting off with your first rabbit, I think it is also important to look online and see if what your vet advises and recommends matches your own research! Some vets have really great intentions and believe they are doing their best, but sometimes intentions don’t match practice.

To address the meat of your question, it can somewhat be a losing battle to train some of those behaviors out of an unfixed male.  Increasing accessibility to litterboxes, recognizing when it’s going to happen and pre-empting it, cleaning up immediately afterwards.. .these are definitely the primary forces people use to help deter inadherent peeing and pooping. In terms of engraining bad behaviors, to an extent it’s insightful and good to have those concerns, but also neutering tends to be a new starting point for an owner and their rabbit — it’s a time to begin developing a solid relationship that isn’t mediated/moderated by the rabbit’s hormones! Your rabbit is still young and there is plenty of time to develop great habits and a good relationship.

The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.

[Leasch]

Hi DanaNM, a huge thanks for your reply!!

Yes, these vets are the only one around for rabbits really. They are often recommended by other vets that have less rabbit experience.

I brought him to her at 4 months. She did say that he’s still a baby and his testicles haven’t even dropped yet. I did think 5-6 months seems a long wait and is why I started to wonder what I could do in the meantime. Ill get in touch with them in about a month (he’ll be 5 months old). Perhaps that would mean this behaviour isn’t related to hormones if his testicles haven’t dropped? He uses his litterbox normally with a few misses around his litterbox. Mostly he, jumps on my bed to pee on it, if I shoo him off he’ll jump straight back on, even if I show him where the litterbox is (very very persistent he is). I am sure it is territorial/hormonal behaviour.

Thanks 😊 Wick also for your lovely thorough comment, I so appreciate it!!

I agree my instinct tells me that the neuter will definitely help. Also, I assume that like people, rabbits are all different in personality and the hormonal behaviour might already be present in him..oh I can’t imagine what extremes he’ll get up to when his testicles do drop!! I won’t be surprised if he sprays on me like your Wick 😂

Thank you for saying that neutering is a start point. That’s a lovely way to phrase it and I feel empowered now to think that there is time for learning good habits and strengthening our bond after the neuter!!

Thank you both for your kind and wise words of encouragement! 💛

[DanaNM]

Oooooh, if he is mostly peeing on the bed, that is a common issue with even neutered buns! Something about the combo of a soft surface and a strong smell of humans. But that might also improve with neutering.

If he hasn’t dropped, that would explain why the vet can’t do it yet. So I guess just keep on checking. 😛

How big is his current box? If he’s peeing in areas right around it, the box could be too small for him. My big girl Bertha would jump in the box sometimes, then procede to back up into a corner, and hang her bum off the side to pee. 🙄 A big box (concrete mixing tubs from the hardware store are excellent for big bunnies), with lots of fluffy hay (that he can only get to once sitting in the box), and soft bedding in the box can really help. Carefresh is great for litter training. It’s a bit pricey, but something about how fluffy it is really entices them into the box and triggers them to pee on it.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Leasch]

Hey DanaNM

Yes I have watched Loofah back up to the corner of the box to pee over the side too 😂. I have since been upgrading it, but now that you mention it I think it could do with another upgrade to make it even more accessable and inviting 😊 thanks for the carefresh suggestion!

Bertha is such a lovely name for your girl! I hope Loofah will learn like her 😊 thank you so much for all your help! x

[Wick & Fable]

Oof. I hope they drop for him soon, if they haven’t! I think my Wick has the record of not dropping until 8 months, haha (superrr late. Definitely not the norm). Notably, rabbits can suck them back into themselves, so it’s possible they may have, but whenever they are stressed at the vet’s office for example, they might retract them. Just something to observe if it is testes-related and you are in the vet office discussing it. I believe experienced rabbit vets can feel if they are sucked in or not? Maybe?

The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.

[Leasch]

Woah 8 months!!

Loofah is checking back into the very tomorrow and will be neutered then if all okay.

Just a note, I worked really hard hard to train Loofah and he seemed to learn after the last round of comments from you (about a month ago). He even stopped peeing on my bed and everything.

Recently I moved flats with him and he has untrained himself again. Poor little one is unsettled and I know he’ll learn again!

I have a feeling as well as neutering (which will hopefully help me), solid training is also really important. And don’t move around as much as I have with a new teenage rabbit! It doesn’t help the situation, poor Loofah.

Where we are now though is much more Loofah friendly though, he loves it!

Thanks all for your help and guidance x

[Hazel]

I know teenage behavior doesn’t always allow for it, but ideally, you want to hold off on neutering until they’re done growing, as teenage hormones play a big part in proper skeletal development (especially important for heavy breeds like Flemmies). Giant breeds keep growing until about 9-12 months of age, sometimes longer.

[Louiethebunny]

I adopted my bun at 5 months and he was already neutered, its different for every bunny. If you’re looking for a rabbit savvy vet, I would definitely check out your local rabbit rescue or shelter!

[Leasch]

Thanks Hazel and Louiethebunny

I really appreciate your advice on this.

My rabbit has just had his operation and it went very well. I did ask the vet about your query Hazel before going ahead and we decided it is the right time to do it now before things become habits.

He’s still his lovely self but am still having trouble litter training him since I moved flats a few weeks ago. I know this is all territorial behaviour so I hope this will get easier as he was fully trained for a period of time until he unlearned it.

I don’t have a cage to go back to basics, giving him only a small area. I don’t want to use a cage and was hoping that I could train him within my bedroom without confining him to a smaller space. He pees on my bed and by the door, he has also started scratching the door more recently.

 

 

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