Tony and Carmela’s love story (hopefully)

[Tony's Mum]

Carmela came home today!!! I’m going to go to the pet shop in a bit and get her a couple of bits. She seems to love hiding much more than Tony so I’ll get her an igloo and a stuffy and some proper litter because the horse hay they liked her litter box with smells very strongly of farmyard and my Dad is getting annoyed. I got a strip of carpet for her too because she’s a Rex and I’m concious of her hocks on the wooden floors. Currently I’m sitting cross legged on the floor of her room quietly and waiting for her to react. She’s peeked out of the carrier a couple of times but she hasn’t ventured yet with me in the room.

I’m going to document the bonding process here and if anyone has any advice or suggestions please let me know! I’m new to this, and even though I’ve read a lot about it and have support from the shelter, I’m still a little freaked out lol.

Tony

Carmela

[sarahthegemini]

All I would say is let her settle in before you start pre bonding

[Tony's Mum]

Yeah I’m going to give her a day or two, do you think that’s enough? Then I’ll open the door between them so they can see each other from across the hall. They’d be separated by about two feet.

[Tony's Mum]

I want to focus on getting her used to the house and myself first. I left her alone all morning then went in and sat on the floor near her for a bit. She didn’t run up to me but she came out of hiding and ate some hay and a treat etc. She seemed content enough letting me give her head rubs. I can’t get over how soft she is!

[sarahthegemini]

Honestly I would wait a couple of weeks. The reason being, if she’s not fully comfortable in her environment, she may act submissive and then once she’s used to everything she might decide she doesn’t like being tye submissive bun. This could lead to a fight, so it’s best that she’s really happy and comfortable with everything around her. That way you know she’s being the ‘real her’

[sarahthegemini]

Honestly I would wait a couple of weeks. The reason being, if she’s not fully comfortable in her environment, she may act submissive and then once she’s used to everything she might decide she doesn’t like being the submissive bun. This could lead to a fight, so it’s best that she’s really happy and comfortable with everything around her. That way you know she’s being the ‘real her’

[Deleted User]

I think Sarah is spot on with saying wait a couple of weeks. The rspca recommend a minimum of two weeks settling in period before any face to face introductions I think. Carmela is a lovely name by the way

[Q8bunny]

I can’t see the pics but I’d definitely give her a few weeks to settle in before commencing pre-bonding.

[Tony's Mum]

I went with Carmela because when I was researching bonding I came across this article where the writer said “I like to compare them to the Mafia. A fluffy Mafia, but a Mafia nonetheless. Rabbit Warrens are full of smaller “families” of unrelated buns, and at the head of the family (the boss) tends to be a strong lady bun. Of a warren gets too fragmented, one super-dominant bun will emerge, and all rabbit families and their bosses will obey her.”

The whole time we were looking for a girl bun I kept joking to Tony that he needed a good mob wife to rule the roost, and when I went to view buns I told him I was off to meet Carmela (Tony Soprano’s wife’s name). Then when I saw her she just looked like a Carmela ? so I ran with it!

[sarahthegemini]

It’s a fabulous name!

[Q8bunny]

I’ve never seen that show, but I find the thought of a bunny mafia hilarious

[Tony's Mum]

So I’m letting Mellie settle in and bond with me a little at the moment, but Tony has realized something is up. He’s gotten really obsessed with grooming my socks (I think because I was wearing them walking around her room while I was setting up and everything. I washed my hands and swapped my jeans for sweatpants, but I’m still wearing the same socks and he’s making it hard to walk around because of how much he seems to want to lick them…

He’s also been staring and sniffing around the door that leads to her room. I think he’s excited ?

[Q8bunny]

LOL Your feet are acting like proxies/stuffies

[Tony's Mum]

Yeah, I wouldn’t mind except I went out and BOUGHT her a stuffy for exactly this reason! Who knew a pair of pink fluffy socks would do a better job!?

I texted the shelter guy, he said he thinks she’d be fine with pre bonding asap because of her background of being moved around a lot with a lot of other buns, but I’m a little wary so I’m going to give her at least a week just to be sure. Especially because I think that’s a very valid point that Sarah made, and I want to make sure I have no issues further down the line.

[sarahthegemini]

Posted By Tony’s Mum on 8/06/2017 2:19 PM

Yeah, I wouldn’t mind except I went out and BOUGHT her a stuffy for exactly this reason! Who knew a pair of pink fluffy socks would do a better job!?

I texted the shelter guy, he said he thinks she’d be fine with pre bonding asap because of her background of being moved around a lot with a lot of other buns, but I’m a little wary so I’m going to give her at least a week just to be sure. Especially because I think that’s a very valid point that Sarah made, and I want to make sure I have no issues further down the line.

I think that’s wise, nothing bad can come from waiting a little longer

[Tony's Mum]

I clipped her nails today as they were quite long and my God she’s a changed bun. Definitely feel like getting her into a good routine and making sure she’s 100% okay will help the bonding. I think short hair and long nails on a hard floor were making it awkward for her to run around. In the shelter she was in a grassy pen so the ground obviously had more give.

I’ve also weighed them both because Tony has been on a low pellet diet since his stasis (he still weighs 5lb 14oz and feels like a good weight) and she looks pretty chunky (6lb 14oz?) so I think his diet can stay the same as it currently is but here will need to be adjusted. I definitely felt she wasn’t getting enough fresh leafy veg when she was in care, which is totally understandable-introducing new foods has to be done slowly and those guys have enough on their minds without chopping romaine for a picky bun who hates rocket. She was getting some carrots, apples, cabbage, lots of hay, pellets etc. I’d like to start introducing some leafy greens and cut back her pellets. Lucky for me the shelter uses the same pellets as I do so there’s no weaning to be done from one brand to the other. Just a matter of slowly introducing new veg and dialling back the pellets. I definitely have to work on this before they’re fully bonded because my greedy little munchkin will absolutely eat all her leftovers if he sees any! Also he could do with some new veggies in his diet too, he’s been getting nothing but leafy greens since the stasis and I’d like to start introducing some non leafy veg too.

Looks like we have a makeover and a diet plan to work on first before we start pre bonding!

[Luna]

How exciting! She’s beautiful . Glad to hear she’s getting herself comfortable with her new home.

[Tony's Mum]

Okay quick PSA to any bun Mums going to attempt bonding; Tony has suddenly become the Houdini of rabbits. I came home from work yesterday and was told that my sister accidentally left my bedroom door open, and Tony had gotten out, then somehow gotten past a fire guard, and a baby gate, and gotten in to Carmela. He nipped her a few times and they had a fight. Luckily the sound of him barging his way through two barriers drew some attention and the fight was stopped almost immediately and he was put back in his own room, but it’s not a good start ? I’m going to call the shelter guy for advice now and hopefully he’ll know where to go from here because I’m a little confused about what to do now that a grumpy bully bun has messed up my plans.

[Luna]

Is she ok? It’s unfortunate, but not abnormal that a fight would break out upon an accidental meeting since she arrived only 3 days ago. I would continue to keep them separated, but for at least another 2-3 weeks.

(what is a fire guard?)

[Tony's Mum]

It’s like a metal gate that goes over a fireplace to prevent sparks flying out and catching the carpet on fire, or kids falling in etc. I have a couple I use for keeping Tony contained because they’re the perfect size for doors and the mesh is small enough that buns can’t squeeze through but you can still see through it. Of course Tony just shoved it around until it fell so clearly a determined bun can still get past them but I never had an issue before. Mellie is a little freaked so I’m just sitting in her room having quiet time right now. If I go too close to her she grunts at me unless I have treats or headrubs

[Deleted User]

I had the same issue with my bun. She wasn’t allowed in my room, and when I brought the new guy home I housed him in my bedroom. He was only 8 weeks so I knew they needed to be separated for a while. Anyway, for the first 2-3 days everything was fine, but then she got REALLY interested in what the hell was going on in my bedroom. One morning I went to go in my room and she darted sooo fast from across the apartment and made it in there before I could try to shut the door (I didn’t want to accidentally squash her). They got in a little fight, some nipping and chasing but we separated them in about 10 seconds (they started underneath the bed and we couldn’t reach). Ophelia would grunt at me too and lunge at my feet if I was walking. After about 3 weeks she calmed down and now I have baby gates set up in the door frame and I let them see each other for a few hours every day and they are getting a little more acclimated to each other. I still have a while to go before I start bonding because he’s not neutered yet, but I’m letting them see each other because she was super fussy about just smelling him and now she’s getting a little better being able to see him. Yesterday I switched them and put her in the bedroom and him in the rest of the apartment, and she was a little fussy about all her stuff smelling like him, so I got some grunts and my hands chased, but she calmed down. It just takes a good bit of time!

[Tony's Mum]

Patience and love (and chocolate for me), and everything will work out!

[Dface]

My girl went through an awful grunt and lunge phase..I think girls are just more prone to giving sass out!
As for the fight, it’s unfortunate, but it does happen.
While I was away during bonding my pair apparently there was more than one fight (and certainly a vicious one which left both bunnies with cuts.) But a week after the vicious fights they were bonded…so I guess the grudges werent held !
Im sure by the time they are both a bit more settled/pre-bonded they’ll be a fair bit calmer!

[Tony's Mum]

I think Tony might be too spoiled and that could be an issue. He’s not used to sharing or being confined or anything. I’ve noticed that he chins me if I’ve been near her so I think it’s an only child kind of thing. That’s MY Mum. These are MY toys. That fancy hay is for ME. This is MY house.

Spoiled boy bun and sassy girl bun ? I really have my work cut out for me!

[Dface]

Yumi was spoiled AND sassy. Peep was bossy and stupid
Patience is the main thing. Letting them take time to adjust to the idea of ‘this is how things are now’ …it’s a very frustrating process

[Tony's Mum]

Okay, so Carmela has been here a week and is still very standoffish, but she’s settling in okay. She’s happy for head rubs and seems to have adjusted to her new schedule and diet. She freaking loves kale…

Today when cleaning out the enclosures I decided to start a little pre-bonding. They are now separated by two barriers, but can see and smell each other. I also swapped litter trays.

She’s acting the same but Tony is acting weird. He’s napping in a box filled with soil that I have for him to dig in. He never normally pays much attention to that part of the room unless he’s playing, and I’ve NEVER seen him nap in it. I think he’s avoiding his blankets etc because they’re near the area that her litter tray is in.

I don’t know exactly what’s up but I have a very mucky little bun doing some very strange stuff right now… ?

[Tony's Mum]

I’m not sure Carmela likes me :/ we seem to bind a little, then it’s back to running off and grunting if my hans gets too close.

It’s really upsetting

[Dface]

Don’t look at it as a dislike thing, it’s simply trust. She’s a prey species, she needs to be scared and your still new.

When I adopted Peep I felt the same. Until I realised how much of an @$$ I was being to him! I was acting like he knew me and like we had a bond that we didn’t, I forgot how long I had to work on both Samp and Yumi before we’d reached what I was expecting off of him, when in fairness, he’d never had that much contact with people.

Try to imagine how different her life has been compared to Tony’s, and how long you’ve had him Vs her, and think are you really adjusting for it ?

Trust and affection will come with time

[Tony's Mum]

That’s true, and when I got Tony he was a baby. There wasn’t much trust to earn, once he stopped being nervous he was fine. She’s had a tough time as a show bunny, she’s probably not used to all the toys and love and attention she’s getting.

I’m smothering her with love ?

[sarahthegemini]

Just give her a little more time, it must be a huge adjustment for her. She’ll learn to trust

[Tony's Mum]

Okay so not-so-fun update; I have seriously hurt my back and am basically immobile right now. I might be for weeks ? so minding two separate buns AND trying to bond them is kinda out of the question right now.

I’ve found a local small animal boarding kennels that does a bunny bonding bootcamp, so tomorrow my furballs are going in for an intensive three days of learning to share. I think it’s the best way to deal with them in the current circumstances; it gives me a couple of days to rest as well as hopefully save me a lot of hassle because I’m really not capable of bonding right now. I’ve been having to get help to feed them for the last couple of days as it is.

The girl is going to keep me totally updated all the time, so I’ll update you guys too. I’m a little stressed about sending them away but also I feel really guilty because Tony is trying desperately to play with me and I can’t right now ? so the sooner they learn to share, the better.

Really hoping it all goes well.

[sarahthegemini]

Posted By Tony’s Mum on 8/22/2017 4:15 PM

Okay so not-so-fun update; I have seriously hurt my back and am basically immobile right now. I might be for weeks ? so minding two separate buns AND trying to bond them is kinda out of the question right now.

I’ve found a local small animal boarding kennels that does a bunny bonding bootcamp, so tomorrow my furballs are going in for an intensive three days of learning to share. I think it’s the best way to deal with them in the current circumstances; it gives me a couple of days to rest as well as hopefully save me a lot of hassle because I’m really not capable of bonding right now. I’ve been having to get help to feed them for the last couple of days as it is.

The girl is going to keep me totally updated all the time, so I’ll update you guys too. I’m a little stressed about sending them away but also I feel really guilty because Tony is trying desperately to play with me and I can’t right now ? so the sooner they learn to share, the better.

Really hoping it all goes well.

Oh no, I really hope you’re okay *hugs* I think what you’re doing is probably the best solution! You don’t want added stress for your sake but also the buns will probably sense it and might be a bit ‘off’ Fingers crossed they learn to share quickly! I think Tony can probably sense that things aren’t quite right. It’s not really the same but I remember Buttercup being extra affectionate the day before her spay!

[Q8bunny]

Oh nuts! The buns will thank you later, most likely. Look after yourself, though. I know how gutting back pain can be…

[Tony's Mum]

I’m like a parent on the first day of school right now. Dropping them off is really upsetting! I hate being away from them, especially my Tony

[sarahthegemini]

It’ll be worth it though if you get to bring home two snuggle monsters

[Tony's Mum]

Okay, updates!
11.30am
“All going ok so far… A little bit of mounting by Tony which she wasn’t allowing, and some foot stamping but no fights yet. Hopefully a good sign!”

1.30pm
“Both nervous but eating together; a good sign!”

2pm
“He’s been mounting her a good bit (which does say I want you!) which she isn’t loving, but he’s tired and lay down and she chose to lie beside him! I’m gonna take them out for a car ride now ”

So far so good with the buns! I’m excited, and I’m really glad I chose the professional bonding service because even the stress of being in the new place with new people seemed to help!

On to a less fun update; I need an MRI ?

[Q8bunny]

Aww… “I’m glad you’re tired of hounding me. Now let’s spoon.”

MRI might lead to potential relief. *hug* (((get well soon)))

[Tony's Mum]

6pm;
“They’re doing really great!
I’ve moved them into a run for more space and if something startles either one they run straight to the other!”

[sarahthegemini]

Woohoo!

[Q8bunny]

Cuties!

[Tony's Mum]

They look like they’re plotting against us ?

[Tony's Mum]

They’re home! Everything seems fine but I’m absolutely terrified

[joea64]

Posted By Tony’s Mum on 8/25/2017 2:25 PM

They’re home! Everything seems fine but I’m absolutely terrified

Good luck! Keep a close eye on them, keep us posted and keep the heavy gloves and dustpan (for separating them in case of quarrel) handy just in case.

[Q8bunny]

LOL May the Force be with your Mob.

[Tony's Mum]

So the first night went well. Some chasing and mounting, but no fights. Tony is NOT playing it cool btw, he’s super clingy lol. Sitting in her litter box while she poops, eating out of whichever bowl she’s eating out of. I made sure they each had their own bowls and litter trays etc just so there’s no arguments but he’s just copying everything she does.

She does not like him mounting and chasing her. She honks the whole time. Then when he catches her he doesn’t really know what to do so he just let’s her go and lies down for a nap.

She seems a little more confident around him than she did alone which I am delighted to see. I even got a proper snuggle when I picked them up, so I think she’s starting to understand the idea of being a pet in a home rather than a show rabbit in a hutch.

Overall I’m happy, still a little scared (and extremely tired), but I’m optimistic.

[Tony's Mum]

So the buns are happy and not fighting at all, but I’m a little concerned about their food intake. His tummy seems a little hard and their poops are quite small. I don’t want to remove treats and pellets in case it leads to fights but I don’t want to end up with stasis buns either. And they’re definitely ingesting too much hair.

I’ve given them some pineapple and leafy greens and removed the carrot chunks and pellets for now, hopefully this will help.

[Q8bunny]

Push hay as much as you can in addition to very wet greens. A tiny bit of banana can also help lubricate things.

[Tony's Mum]

Yup, wet carrot tops and some juice in the water.

[Tony's Mum]

Second night went perfectly, lots of grooming each other and flopping next to each other. There was no arguments when I swapped out pellets for carrot tops either, and everyone is still eating and pooping.

I’ve attached a run to the cage to give them some extra space; I’ve been warned that I’ll have to slowly reintroduce them to open spaces to prevent territorial disputes), and at first they ignored the run and now they’re using it.

Tony is chasing Carmela around the run a lot and she’s grunting at him but I’m a little worried that she’s distressed? They sounds like they’re unhappy grunts.

[Tony's Mum]

My buns ?

[Tony's Mum]

Posted By Tony’s Mum on 8/27/2017 8:59 AM
My buns ?

So I don’t think I have to worry about her grunts anymore because she got pretty pissed off at being mounted earlier on and nipped at him a little, then she mounted him and after he stopped looking shocked and offended they started cuddling ? up till now he’s been the one doing the mounting. They’re grooming each other a lot more too!

[Q8bunny]

LOL

[Tony's Mum]

So the bunnies have been living together without incident for two weeks now, but I’ve noticed a couple of things. Firstly, they aren’t as cuddly as they were in the cage now that they have space. Definitely Carmela has ignored a few requests from Tony to groom him, although she does it sometimes. Secondly, he’s chased and tried to mount her a few times. Usually only for a few seconds and then he gives up, but I’m a little worried.

Should I be concerned?

[joea64]

Posted By Tony’s Mum on 9/05/2017 11:48 AM

So the bunnies have been living together without incident for two weeks now, but I’ve noticed a couple of things. Firstly, they aren’t as cuddly as they were in the cage now that they have space. Definitely Carmela has ignored a few requests from Tony to groom him, although she does it sometimes. Secondly, he’s chased and tried to mount her a few times. Usually only for a few seconds and then he gives up, but I’m a little worried.

Should I be concerned?

Who appears to be the dominant partner in the bonding? With my own buns, Panda is dominant, and she re-asserts that on a more or less daily basis (oddly, at the same time more or less every evening) by mounting Fernando (who is her kit and would make the whole thing quite squicky if bunnies had any concept of family relationships &nbsp from both front and rear. Fernando generally bears the whole thing with good humor though he’ll move away if Panda gets too vigorous about front-mounting. They’re quite loving bondmates just about all of the rest of the time, though, and I’m told that Panda’s behavior was likely triggered both by having her other three kits adopted out and the move to a new home).

[sarahthegemini]

Posted By Tony’s Mum on 9/05/2017 11:48 AM

So the bunnies have been living together without incident for two weeks now, but I’ve noticed a couple of things. Firstly, they aren’t as cuddly as they were in the cage now that they have space. Definitely Carmela has ignored a few requests from Tony to groom him, although she does it sometimes. Secondly, he’s chased and tried to mount her a few times. Usually only for a few seconds and then he gives up, but I’m a little worried.

Should I be concerned?

Hmm. I wouldn’t be too concerned about the fact that they cuddle a bit less. If they’ve got more space now, they’ve got more things to do! When Peanut and Buttercup were penned for bonding, they cuddled pretty much non stop. Once they got free roam of the place again, they definitely cuddled less. I suppose in a smaller environment, it’s just better to snuggle?! I wouldn’t necessarily be concerned about the grooming either – neither of mine grooms at every request. Peanut will ignore Buttercup’s requests quite a lot, and sometimes he’ll give like 3 quick licks and then carry on playing  Having said that, in regards to the chasing, perhaps because Carmela isn’t grooming Tony at every request he’s feeling a little insecure and wanting to reassert things? What does Carmela do in response? 

[Tony's Mum]

Joea; I think he’s the dominant one. Maybe he’s trying to mount her to reassert that because she’s ignoring some of his demands for grooms? He can be quite a brat at times when he doesn’t get his own way.

Sarah; she usually just runs a few feet away and he doesn’t follow her. Sometimes she runs a lot and he follows her a good bit, but I think then it’s more of a game- she runs through tunnels and stuff, and stops and looks for him if he stops following.

I’m just nervous that they aren’t bonded, and next week I’ll be back to work. I’ve left them alone a few times for a couple of hours, and they’ve been together for a couple of weeks since coming home from bonding bootcamp without any problems, but I’m getting a bit nervous leaving them alone together all day while I’m in work. It should be fine though, right?

[sarahthegemini]

Posted By Tony’s Mum on 9/05/2017 3:37 PM

Joea; I think he’s the dominant one. Maybe he’s trying to mount her to reassert that because she’s ignoring some of his demands for grooms? He can be quite a brat at times when he doesn’t get his own way.

Sarah; she usually just runs a few feet away and he doesn’t follow her. Sometimes she runs a lot and he follows her a good bit, but I think then it’s more of a game- she runs through tunnels and stuff, and stops and looks for him if he stops following.

I’m just nervous that they aren’t bonded, and next week I’ll be back to work. I’ve left them alone a few times for a couple of hours, and they’ve been together for a couple of weeks since coming home from bonding bootcamp without any problems, but I’m getting a bit nervous leaving them alone together all day while I’m in work. It should be fine though, right?

Personally I don’t think you have anything to worry about but of course, that’s easy to say! I was so nervous about leaving my own rabbits after their two week marathon bond (I had to go into hospital and I persuaded my partner to take two weeks off work to keep an eye on them just in case ) Mine sometimes chase each other. If Peanut is getting a little too interested in Buttercup’s bum, she’ll either chase him away or she’ll hop away and he’ll chase her. It’s quite uneventful as they stop after a few seconds and groom themselves or each other lol. Hasn’t happened in a while though  ut watch this space I’ve jinxed it now!

If you’re really nervous, you need to nip that in the bud or it’ll drive you mad. From now, if you can, try and go out every day for a little longer each time. You could always start popping out during their inactive hours and then build up to popping out during their most active hours. That’s what I’d do. I was lucky in a way as I was thrown in at the deep end. Although my partner was here for the rabbits whilst I was away, it’s not quite the same as me having an eye on them

[Tony's Mum]

I guess. It’s just when I come in and see them loafed up four feet away from each other I get worried that they aren’t bonding. I’ve been leaving a good bit to do errands and there’s no issues so I think you’re right, I just need to work on my paranoia!

[joea64]

Posted By Tony’s Mum on 9/05/2017 3:37 PM

Joea; I think he’s the dominant one. Maybe he’s trying to mount her to reassert that because she’s ignoring some of his demands for grooms? He can be quite a brat at times when he doesn’t get his own way. 
  

Oh heck yeah, Panda can be quite the little diva sometimes too! She has a tendency to get nippy when she doesn’t think she’s getting enough attention (which is exasperating sometimes since she continues to be skittish about physical attention, it’s vocal attention she’d still rather have) and/or treats. Panda and Fernando groom each other frequently but they’re occasionally slow to react to each other’s requests for grooming.

[sarahthegemini]

Posted By Tony’s Mum on 9/06/2017 8:26 AM

I guess. It’s just when I come in and see them loafed up four feet away from each other I get worried that they aren’t bonding. I’ve been leaving a good bit to do errands and there’s no issues so I think you’re right, I just need to work on my paranoia!

I totally understand. I used to come back and scan the area for signs of a scuffle if they were sleeping apart. It took a while for me to get past my own paranoia. The more you leave them unsupervised (and see nothing bad happens) the better you’ll feel.

[DanaNM]

Hi Tony’s mum! Just reading through this now. My two have very cuddly phases, and less cuddly ones. Right when they were freshly bonded, I was super nervous that they might be drifting apart (cuddling less, more nipping, etc), but nothing serious had happened. I wanted to stop any tensions from escalating, so I did what I’ve been calling “couple’s therapy”: some banana on both heads and/or a quick stressing session (vacuuming around thme). They went right back to being snuggle bugs, and the effects lasted. I don’t think it can hurt at all (at minimum, they are just getting a treat), and it definitely gave me some piece of mind!

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Tony's Mum]

Thanks Dana! I actually by chance tried this today. I put them back into the cage and turned on the vaccine for a bit. They didn’t seem to care about the vaccine at all, but they were cuddling a little ?

[Author]

Messages