Tolerance or bonded

[eprevett]

I have a male rabbit who is the more dominate one and a female who is more submissive and passive. I had tired all summer to get them to bond but wasn’t sure that it had worked. I recently moved for school and brought them with me. Lately they have been getting along no fighting the male is defiantly more dominate and my female is still kind of hesitant around him but there is no fighting or nipping or any issues like that. I notice that they don’t cuddle together, they will lay near each other and they put their heads together and both put their heads down to be groomed but neither of them want to take the iniataive to groom the other. She takes a real interest in him and wants to be with him all the time but he does not seemed to be phased if she’s there or not. I was wondering if there is such thing as a tolerance that bunnies have for each other where they are not fully bonded but don’t fight and get along or if there is still more work I can do to make sure that they are fully bonded. Thanks☺️

[DanaNM]

Hi there,

Your instinct is correct, they don’t sound completely bonded. Rather, they are tolerating each other, as you suspected.

Since you just moved, this might be a good opportunity to solidify things as you have more neutral space to work with.

For now you should separate them, and go back to pre-bonding. I know it’s really frustrating, but in this type of situation a fight can break out out of nowhere (I had this happen to me once… it was awful). Then you can go back to doing bonding sessions.

Alternatively, if you have time, you can move them to neutral space together and try marathoning them there to see if they can finalize their relationship. But, this might take several days of 24/7 supervision, so might not be possible.

Can you describe what you did to try to bond them before? That will help us give suggestions on what might work.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[eprevett]

For the bonding sessions, I started with pre-bonding and they lived next to each other pretty much the whole summer. I switched cages pretty much every day and did bonding sessions in the bathtub which was the most neutral place I could use in my house. I started with stress bonding and went on a couple car rides and that was the end of the session. They went pretty good and they seemed to cuddle up to each other a little bit. The sessions after that in the bathtub went okay they pretty much ignored each other but he would nip at her butt at random times or would nip at her face. I tried to do sessions every other day but I worked a lot this summer so I did them on the days that I had off. I figured since they were ignoring each other and he would flop all the time that things were progressing. I introduced some food during the bonding sessions and there was no fighting there. I found he was always nipping at her during sessions though and thought I would continue the bonding after I moved. Once I moved I a set up a pen and allowed one to free roam in the same room (this probably wasn’t the best idea) but I decided to let them try to hop around together since there was no serious fighting during the bonding sessions and they seemed fine with each other so I have been letting them day by day spend more time each other. There has been no fighting but as stated before they are more or less tolerating each other. How could I further the bonding process now that they are pretty much living together?

[DanaNM]

So, it sounds like you got past the negative behaviors, but it’s important to remember with bonding that you are looking for lots of positive behaviors, not just absence of negative. Flopping is good, but ideally you want cuddling and mutual grooming.

How long were your sessions at your old place? I’ve never had great luck with small spaces. What’s your new place like? It does sound like they were making progress but aren’t quite there yet. So from your post, are they still only together when supervised? Or are they living in the same pen?

So here’s what I would do:
– Have them living separately, but side by side (sounds like you know the drill with this from your old set-up). Continue side/cage swaps.
– Try to reserve a larger area in your new place for bonding sessions. This should be out of the smell range (at least out of sight) of where they live now. If this isn’t possible you can try a friend’s house, or a room outside.
– Since they are doing well for the most part, I would just try a marathon weekend and try to get them cemented if your schedule allows for it. You should try to use as large a space possible (2 x-pens linked up worked for me). You can add lots of hay, water, new hiding boxes with at least 2 exits. Don’t add litter boxes right away. Basically you’ll want to keep them together, with constant supervision, in that neutral space, until you see cuddling and grooming, and both bunnies are really relaxed. In my experience, when they are bonded, you won’t have any doubts, as they will seem super relaxed and happy with each other (neither bunny should seem tense or fearful). If you don’t feel 100% sure they are bonded at the end of the time you have to supervise, separate but continue sessions in the evening. Some people will even keep them together when they are home, and then separate when they leave, until they are sure they are good.

I’m thinking since the place is new the main room is more like semi-neutral, so they are doing OK in it. I think you’ll want to go back to a completely neutral space to get them cemented.

I wouldn’t try to do sessions in that main room. You really want to have them be basically bonded in 100% neutral, then progress to less-neutral space.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[eprevett]

Originally my sessions were around 1-2 hours long, that’s usually all I could fit in during the day. Right now they are in my room and she is in an xpen and he is free roaming for the time being. The only way I could do cage swapping would be to let her free roam and have him in the cage, don’t know if this would have the same results? When I am home from classes I open the door and they are allowed to run around together, I am home at nights so they get the whole night together and when I am ready to go to bed I put her back in her pen.  Neither of them has been in my kitchen before and it is far enough away from my room do you think that will work? I also have an upstairs which my roommates would let me use the hallway. I will try to rebond them over the weekend and see if this helps. Because right now it does seem more like a tolerance and they are slowly getting better every day but I don’t want her to be as nervous around him. I am also wondering if he just has the personality type that can’t be bonded or he would be more content on his own.

[DanaNM]

Swapping who is caged and who is free roam will have the same result.

I think using the kitchen or the hallway would work well.

I think you will get there, I think you prob just needed longer sessions to finalize their bond. My buns have always made the most progress with really long sessions.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[eprevett]

So I tried keeping them together in a completely neutral space and there was no fighting or anything like that, but when I moved them back into my room a sectioned off a small area of the room at first but it resulted in my male chasing my female around the cage and lunging at her. I don’t think that their situation got any better. They get along fine in the neutral space but never took to grooming each other or cuddling which makes me think that they will not bond. 

[DanaNM]

How long are your sessions in neutral?

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[sarahthegemini]

If they weren’t grooming each other or cuddling whilst in neutral, why did you move them? Or did you move them to a different but still neutral spot? As Dana previously mentioned, you have to see positive signs, not just lack of negative ones.

[eprevett]

I left them in my kitchen for like 3 days, I could only keep them in there for so long because my roommates asked if I could move them. After 3 days though I did not see any progress, they were not fighting and he wasn’t chasing was the things I saw. I can always try this again but I am very sceptical about the time that it will take to get them bonded or if it can happen at all. 

[DanaNM]

Hmmm, yeah that’s tough.

I would think after 3 days you would see some positive progress. The only thing I can think is that the kitchen still isn’t 100% neutral. Or it is, but they need a little change up.

It is possible that they are just not a good match, but if you want to give it one more shot, I would recommend trying to marathon again in a completely new environment, like a friend’s garage or kitchen. This worked really well for me. If you don’t see positive signs after a couple days, then I would call it and plan to keep them separately. They might still be happy as neighbors.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[eprevett]

Update: So over the past week I had to go home for Thanksgiving, I saw this as the perfect opportunity for bonding. They were together in a totally new area and get along great. They started grooming each other and started cuddling as well. When I came home I thought because for the past 3 days they were getting along I would try sectioning off a corner in my room and solidify the bond there. The male grooms my female but getting annoyed and nips when she goes to groom him, and they do still cuddle sometimes. But lately, I have noticed a lot of chasing, especially when it comes to feeding time. He will chase her around the cage out of nowhere sometimes as well. That is the only really aggressive behaviour that I have seen other than the occasional lunging. I am just confused because they got along so well and then now he is more or less bullying her and am confused. Any suggestions? Should I keep them in a neutral place all the time, like find a new room for them? 

[DanaNM]

Hmmm, so it does sound like they did much better in the completely neutral space, so the transition to home might have been to abrupt. You shouldn’t really see any lunging or much nipping in a bonded pair.

I think trying a new room is a great idea! If they do well there again, then you can either keep them there, or use it as a space to do a more gradual transition to their usual space.

Typically when you move a pair into the non-neutral final home, its a good idea to clean it and deodorize it as much as possible, and rearrange it so it looks as unfamiliar as possible. I usually put all new toys, wipe hard surfaces with vinegar, and just try to flip how things are arranged as much as I can.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

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