The truth about pine shavings

[Karla]

I see again and again people saying pine shavings are bad. But why? I read this article a few years ago and the conclusion of it is that it is misinterpreted old studies that are always referred to.

It is really interesting. See what you think:

http://buckysbunnies.tripod.com/Pine.html

As it says, the article has been reviewed by a rabbit breeder with a Ph.D. in Pharmacology and Toxicology and by a medical doctor & research writer who had studied the HME system for six months.

[Beka27]

I’ve seen this page before and we have already discussed this at length. Since there is evidence both ways, I prefer to keep with what has been working for me and not even risk it. It’s cheaper for me to use wood pellets anyways.

[Karla]

I would love to see the evidence supporting pine shavings as bad, so if you could link to them or help me find the dicussions that have already been on this board where there might be links to research papers, it would be a great help.

[Sarita]

Karla, have you gone on-line looking for evidence to support this yourself?  We’ve discussed this many times.

http://www.rabbit.org/care/shavings.html

http://www.rabbit.org/journal/1/liver-disease.html

Each of the above also have references as well.

[Karla]

Yes, but these are the articles that are being argued against as not being valid, so I thought that perhaps there were some other studies, I could read.

Sorry for being a pain

[Beka27]

Some links from Rabbit References:  http://homepage.mac.com/mattocks/morfz/rabcare.html#litterwarss

• Litter Warnings: Softwood Shavings
  • Respiratory Toxicity of Cedar & Pine Wood – Jeff Johnston
    
  • The Problem with Pine: A Discussion of Softwood Beddings – Elizabeth TeSelle
  • The Dangers of Softwood Shavings – George Flentke
  • The Toxicity of Pine and Cedar Shavings – Debbie Ducommun
  • Physiological Effects of Softwoods on Respiratory and Liver Function – Nathaniel Cook
  • See also Liver

 

[LoveChaCha]

I used Cedar.. until I found this place, lol.

Now I’m waiting until I am done with my last bag of Carefresh. I have a 40lb bag of Woodstove Pellets waiting to be used.

This should be good reading

[Karla]

Thanks, Beka!

That is the only way to go in a discussion – at least for me – to have researches to back one up. I will read them

[Beka27]

And like I said, I know I’ve read and participated in other threads on this topic in the past. I haven’t see any *new* research… your link was from the late 90s, most of the other links were from the same time period. Like with most topics, for every article FOR something there’s another one AGAINST…

[Sarita]

I don’t think there is any new research on this because those who have made their decision yay or nay have made their decision.

[Deleted User]

Karla, I think it makes sense that aromatic (non-kiln-dried) pine shavings are bad for a small animal’s respiratory system if the animal is exposed to it in a small area and without much open ventilation. That would be like you breating in from a bottle of pine sol.
However, I feel (feeling is not very scientific but, alas, such is me) that if you had a litterbox of pine shavings for a rabbit in a bunny room there is hardly a risk as the amount of circulation of air would disperse the aromatic substances very widely. I think the trouble with pine shavings really is related to small, poorly-ventilated habitats, such as hutches or tanks for rats etc.
I think pine shavings are a thing of the past anyways as their absorbency is very poor. The modern paper-based litters have a much larger wet volume.

[Andi]

Does or has anyone used pine shaving in a litter box?
I ran out of wood pellets and had to once, YUCK! never again, it’s stinky, messy and soggy.
I have to use Pine Shavings in one of my cages as a ‘flooring’ (non litter trained bunny) I find that dust can be an issue, so the quality of the shavings is important. I think anything that is highly smelly in a small area would be an irritant to anyone, but just as important is dusty products that can irritate skin and breathing/noses.

[LoveChaCha]

Posted By Andi on 12/21/2010 02:10 PM
Does or has anyone used pine shaving in a litter box?
I ran out of wood pellets and had to once, YUCK! never again, it’s stinky, messy and soggy.
I have to use Pine Shavings in one of my cages as a ‘flooring’ (non litter trained bunny) I find that dust can be an issue, so the quality of the shavings is important. I think anything that is highly smelly in a small area would be an irritant to anyone, but just as important is dusty products that can irritate skin and breathing/noses.

 

I used cedar when I first got Chacha. I used it in a litter box and around her cage. Big mistake in the cage, lol. The litter box was a mess. Always stuck inside the box. And it stunk terribly.

[Deleted User]

I think in the past the pine shavings had a reputation as being antimicrobial, but really small animals can even get bugs from pine shavings at least my vet has said they can be a source of mites. From pet owners’ perspective they are such a bad choice, I for one get itchy eyes from the dust of pine shavings.

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

Ditto the others, we have discussed it.

I think what’s pertinent to note, is the publications it notes are OLD. In science you don’t consider studies or articles older then 15 years at most and it’s prudent to rely on newest information… and those publications can neither be found with google, aren’t linked and are old…
 

Mt. Ears (12/97)
Valley Voice (9/97)
PGNDRC Newsletter (1/98)
The News Disrict II NDRC (3/98)

Secondly I cannot find any Dr. Carol Green who is a pharmacologist on google, nor any mention of her and pine shavings except in this article.

The last time we discussed this I looked up the articles it referred to and most were about mice or rats and none really found what the author purports. If you’d like you can use google scolar to look up each, purchase access and see for yourself -it’s true though. You can usually tell what the article is about and concludes from the abstract which you can usually see without purchasing.

The long and the short of it is: This is old, generally I don’t trust web pages that are blue (it’s an old site) and they don’t link to any of the info…it’s kind of like those internet forwards that say
“This si really really true, it happened to my moms aunts friend-and I checked snopes” but it doesn’t link to snopes and a quick check of snopes proves it’s a myth.

So just because it has references, it doesn’t allow you to see them and you are taking what they say as truth based on faith (not you, the proverbial you); and in discussing and researching before, we’ve all agreed pine just isn’t worth the risk. Aromatics are undisputably dangerous to any animal at some level and there’s no need when there are so many better litters IMHO

[Author]

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