Territorial agression

[Kayla_mac1]

I am bonding a one year old neutered male with a three year old spayed female. It has been four days and territorial agression is increasing as their cages are side by side. Im wondering if i should wait for the aggression to stop (the bonding info recommends waiting a week) or if i should seperate their cages now. The male is completely calm around her and enjoys investigating her cage when she is outside of it. However, she gets very agressive when he comes around her cage when he is out to play and tries to bite him. As well, she is not acting herself and bit me when i was trying to feed her (there was no intimation by the other rabbit in this moment). As well, im having trouble switching cages as she gets very angry being in a smaller cage.

[vanessa]

I would separate the cages some more so she doesn’t feel so threatened, and while he is out to play, don’t let him get so close to her cage. Can you make an extra fence around her cage so she can see him but he can’t get that close? Gradually bring the cages closer and closer. And then wait it out… Once she realizes that he is not a threat from the other side of the fence… and who knows how long that can take, then you can move on to the next step. A week is a bit short in my experience. I can understand that she would get upset in a smaller cage. I got to know what size cage was at that threshold for my bunnies. Perhaps swap their litter boxes and toys instead of cages. If she is feeling so frustrated that she is wiling to bite you, I’d back off on the small cage and definitely increase the distance between them. It might be too close too soon for her. You need to figure out what her pace is – and work with it.

[Kayla_mac1]

Is it still okay for him to go in her cage while she is out playing or is that too much as well?

[Kayla_mac1]

I should also add that there is no aggression while he is in his cage. Therefore, it might be best to still keep there cages side by side. I do think that putting a fence there was a great idea and i am trying it out.

[vanessa]

I think that is fine, but whoever is in the cage, I would still put a fence around it so there is at least 6 inches of “no-fly-zone space”. If 6 inches is too little for her and she gets aggressive, increase it until she is comfortable. Once she is back in her cage, she’ll start marking over where he has been, which is fine. That’s where you just keep on keeping on until the territorial markings die down.

Whatever the setup – where space/distance/proximity is an issue, back them off until she is comfortable, and move them closer in very small amounts. If you are using the fence – move it closer very slowly. If she doesn’t mind him in her cag while she is playing, good. If she does mind – put a fence around it, and move the fence closer to the cage until it is right up against it, and then take it away. That’s how I got mine living side by side with a NIC fence. Those gaps are big enough to allow damage – but I moved the fences closer together until I took one away and my two pairs are now able to lie up against the fence next to each other.

[Kayla_mac1]

She doesnt go crazy along as there is another fence (just kinda stares at him). However, she has started trying to attack him while he is in his cage and she is out for playtime. She tried three times in a row and i pushed her away. I now know to fence off his cage now. Is this amount of agression normal or should i question if shes better off as a solo rabbit?

[Kayla_mac1]

The aggression through his cage wasnt his fault at all. He is very patient with her and tried to groom her during the only bonding session they have ever had today. She tried to nip him a couple times but was always stopped by my gloved hand.

[vanessa]

When I started bonding Guinevere with Lancelot, she was extremely aggressive, launching all-out attacks on him. Some woudl have said – she should be single. But I had seen her with Melin, her first husbun, so I knew she would be happy again wth a pal. It did take 8-10 months to bond them, but they became super uber snuggly. It sounds like your female (what are their names?) could do with some more prebonding – and the fence could count as that. Since she is that aggressive, I’d keep it up for about 2 weeks with the fence, before inchign it closer. Keep in mind that our term “aggressive” isn’t really negative on her part. Terretorial defense is natural for a bunny. Fear/feelign threatened is also natural. So while we term it “aggressive behavior”, a little time and patience usually shows them that it’s going t be ok. Yes there are some bunnies that refuise to believe it. Some members here have bunnies that remain singles because they coudlnt’ get over their aggressiveness. You never really know how long to keep trying for.

When you have one caged and one out playing – how neutral is the area? That coudl also be causing the problem. I’ll bet she doesnt’ think it is a neutral area. So again – I’d stick with the fence for a few weeks, then start inching it closer and see how she does. What are you using as a fence?

[vanessa]

What do you do for their bonding sessions?

[Kayla_mac1]

The boy is zelda and the girl is ellie. For a fence im using a several screen doors layed against her cage. For the bonding sessions i am using stress bonding. Both bunnies were placed in a laundry bin on top of the dryer on a spin cycle. I really didnt want to go down that route since it seemed mean but i have decided that it is better than ellie getting the chance to bite. During our second session he snuggled with his head on her head. She allowed it even though we kept our hand in front of her mouth for safety. She never tried to bite.

[vanessa]

Sometimes stress bonding is neccessary. Im aboutti put guin and avalon in the car with me… have you tried the smoosh technique? It forces them to cuddle. I smoosh and stress. Youtube has 6 good videos on the smoosh. U sit on the floor with them between your legs, facing the same direction for 1( minutes a day. Pet them at the same time so they relax. Multiaxis approach… i have a picture of it in my current trio thread.

[Kayla_mac1]

Okay thank you for your help. I will try the smoosh technique. Probably when i can trust her not to bite.

[vanessa]

Its actually easy to control the nips. You have your hand in her head and you can control her movement. I have my bf out the second bunny in potition for me, and i have him pick up the second bunny once im done. That way i can always have my hand on the nippy bun. The first few times i tried it, i asked him to help me control the buns.

[Kayla_mac1]

okay thank you. I do have someone to help me and I will try that technique today.

[vanessa]

Look it up on you tube as well and dont give them space to move anything but their faces. And keep your hand on her head. No face to butt – they must be facing the same direction. Ill take more pics of my two this evening.

[Kayla_mac1]

Since stress bonding was going well (zelda snuggled ellie as soon as he was in the basket during our sixth bonding session) i tried the smoosh technique in the basket. Ellie wasnt showing agression towards him. Maybe this could be due to the stuffed animal dummy i put in her cage with his fur on it. However, Zelda has started biting her. The smoosh technique was going on for about 20 minutes and we stopped all bites. Except at the end ellie had enough and got a nasty bite on his eyelid. I tried my best to end on a good note. Zelda was terrified and jumped in my arms so i held him for a minute and then took him to his cage.unfortuantely that was the best i could do. I dont know what to try next since stress bonding is going well but doesnt seem to improve anything beyond that.

[Mikey]

First step is healing his eyelid and calming his nerves. If you put a nervous wounded bunny in to try and bond, it is more likely a fight will break out. Let them have a few days away from eachother so he doesnt end up holding a grudge

[vanessa]

Yeah… id agree with mkey. This much biting, perhaps they need some more prebonding after a week or two break? Also try keeping the smoosh sessions shorter. If 20 minutes ended in a bite, the next time only do 10. You want to avoid all of those bites. They dont help.

[Kayla_mac1]

Update on the bunnies. I waited a few days for Zelda’s eye to heal and started again. During stress bonding, Zelda cuddles Ellie immediately and tucks his head under hers. We started putting them in a neutral area bathroom. They can eat, flop and groom themselves comfortably within reach of the other rabbit. However, we are not comfortable letting them interact face to face since Zelda usually nips Ellie leading to a fight. Yesterday though, they were able to sniff noses safely with a gloved hand in between them.

[vanessa]

That’s good. At this point, I’d probably follow the rule of “stick to what works”. Whatever you’re doing that’s going well, keep doing it for a week before trying something further. That will help them gain more trust in eachother.

[Kayla_mac1]

A week has passed and things are still improving. Nips are very little. When one bunny touches the other bunny’s nose they just hope backwards and move away (both will do this). Does that mean it is time to move to semi neutral territory? Its a relatively small room so do i give them free range or restrict space with an xpen?

[Kayla_mac1]

Grooming each other has never happened.

[vanessa]

No… stick with the neutral territory. Its only time to move to less neutral when they r ready to live together. What size space r they currently bonding in? Slowly increase the space. Once they can get along in a larger space, and r ready to live together, then give their permanent living space a good clean, rearrange/change the furniture, and make it more neutral.

[Kayla_mac1]

Sorry for not answering in a while. The bonding space is increased to be large (maybe the size of a bathroom). Well, there is no aggression from Ellie whatsoever. However, when Zelda is within short range of Ellie he sometimes quickly charges at her (no bites or boxing) and she will quickly run away. This happens mostly when she is eating food that he wants. They also sometimes sniff nose to nose and hop away. There is no grooming occuring. Will more time fix these problems?

[vanessa]

Considering that it’s only been a month, I think they are doing great. I like to stick to what works – for at least a week. If they stop making progress, change something up. Larger space, add food, something. To force them to interact again. It took a loooong time for Lancelot to Groom Guin. She wanted to groom him pretty quickly. I took apple juice and put a few drops on her ears and head, to trick him into grooming her. You coudl use squashed banana, apple puree, whatever thei favorite fruits/fruit juices are. Time does help – it took me 10 months to bond my pair. You’re doing good for a month in.

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