Strange black flecks in fur

[bunnluff]

So I was petting Pippin today and checking her fur. It’s pretty thick so I was blowing on it to separate the fur so I could see through. I cam across these weird dark brown or blackish flecks in a couple of spots on her back. A couple of them even had a weird fiber quality about them, almost like bristles from a brush. At first I thought maybe she just had some poo that got stuck in her fur, but after finding these in more than one spot, I realized it’s not that. The first thing I did was Google, most of the results said this was most likely fleas. My girls are house rabbits and don’t go outside or have contact with other animals. Also I’ve never noticed scratching or any fleas around. Has anyone else experienced this? It’s not vet trip worthy or anything, I’m just curious. In the meantime I’ll give her a nice lavender rub down just in case.

[unknownphoenix]

Its still possible to get fleas even if they are inside rabbits and aren’t in contact with other animals. When you walk around outside there is a possibility of them hitching a ride on your clothes and getting in the carpet then going onto the rabbits. Happened with my bunny unfortunately. I would get a flea comb and give them a good brushing and see if you can find any live fleas. Its possible its just little pieces of hay, I find dark specks in the rabbits fur a lot but its just from hay or lint Gives me a scare every time now, I am so paranoid since they got fleas once lol

[bunnluff]

I just Googled “Flea dirt” because I wanted to investigate further and those pieces are indeed what I’m seeing in the fur. While I’m here, does anyone have a natural flea remedy? I have had to deal only with singular fleas or ticks and not a herd or anything and certainly haven’t seen the “dirt” before. Short of dousing her in the bath, what are my other options that don’t involve chemical powders and such?

[njbunny]

Flea dirt looks more like dots (pepper) then strands. To know for sure comb the “stuff” and wipe it onto a barely damp napkin. If they turn red or leave red streaks when wiping them it is in fact flea dirt. Do you live in a attached home (apartment, townhome, etc) where someone is connected to you? If so it is likely the fleas came from next door. We see it a lot at the vet. If this is the case treating her is going to be difficult if you have a source you cannot control. Also, if it is fleas you will likely have eggs in the house so a thorough cleaning (give your home a good vacuum and wash any clothes/fabrics that you think may have come into contact with fleas) will be in order to completely break the cycle. The good news is that fleas don’t like us. We are not a top food source for them by any means. If you start getting bit then you know you have a big problem!

[bunnluff]

 So I found this image online and this is exactly what I’m seeing. I have lived in an apartment for 2 years and have never had this issue. Everyone that lives around me has dogs or cats so I guess theres that possibility of transferring. I’ve already rubbed the rabbits down with both lavender and vinegar/water mixture and they already get ACV in their water dish every day. I guess now I just need to deep clean, baking soda the carpets and do some laundry. What a nightmare. It’s the ear mites all over again.

 

[Roberta]

Yep… That’s flea dirt, it can come in short strands as welll as sandy granules… What you are seeing is signs of an infestation from the quantities you have mentioned.. A natural remedy is not going to work… You will need Revolution Puppy and Kitten or the Advantage product for Ctas, Rabbits and Ferrets…. DO NOT USE FRONTLINE it is fatal to rabbits… Your vet could also administer an ivermectin shot.
It only takes a couple of flea eggs tracked in on your shoes from the soil and they will be off and breeding, not to mention bringing in diseases that can harm your bunnies I.E. Calici and Myxo, some worms and other parasites can also be transmitted from flea and mosquito bites… In Australia it is a constant concern for us bunny parents as we have both Myxo and Calici virus in abundance thanks to our governments feral rabbit control programs..
From experience I can say that you will not see all the fleas, you might only see one or two and patches of flea poo, the truth is there are probably scores of them on your buns hiding in their fur. I only ever saw a few on one of my cats even though I treated them regularly after one treatment I looked at the blanket where he had a nap post treatment and it was thick with fleas 1mm deep and a patch the size of the space his body had occupied (all dead thankfully)

[bunnluff]

I typically will never use toxic items in the treatment course because I myself am very sensitive to things like that and I don’t want them around my pets either. I have found holistic and naturpathic treatment successful for ear mites, wounds, and other bunny maladies. So I’m hoping this is no different.

[Roberta]

I appreciate what you are saying and in fact I tried to take the same path only to discover many of the essential oils and essences required for natural flea products are toxic to rabbits. Even if they can eat the leaves the actual concentrated essence can cause nerve and other damage… Penny Royal for one should never be used on any animal and will cause seizures in dogs.. Did a little research and the “Mectins” I.E. Ivermectin and selamectin are derived from bacteria which affect the amino acids of the parasite.

[Eepster]

If you really can’t do chemicals, it’s going to be harder.  First off, a Glue based flee trap will help you monitor progress and warn of flees returning.  They do not capture enough flees to make a serious dent in population though.  Pick a spot close to he bunnies, where they can’t actually get them selves stuck to it.

Next, you need a fine toothed flea comb, and a bowl of slightly soapy water, another of fresh water, and a towel to dry the comb.  Use the comb to comb out any flea on your bunny.  drop the fleas into the soapy water and they will drown.  If you drop them in water without soap to break the surface tension they can swim, the soap is necessary to kill them.  After drowning each flea, rinse the soap off the comb in the plain water, and dry it off.

They also make zapping flea combs, I have never tried them, but parents I know swear by the lice version for children, never actually tried those either.

To a large degree, the fleas live in the environment as much as they do n your bunny.  Borax and diatomaceous earth kill fleas through desiccation (removing water) instead of toxins.  It is important to treat the environment.  Work the descant down into the carpets, rugs and upholstery of your house.  Use a stiff bristled broom or brush to really work it deep into carpet fibers.  Make sure you are getting into all the crevices and cracks in your house, such as between floor boards.  Leave it down for a few minutes, and then vacuum like mad.  Repeat this process.  Do the whole house, not just places the bunnies go.  Change the vacuum bag when you’re done, and take to the outside garbage.

After vacuuming, leave more desiccant any where the bunnies (or any small children) can’t actually lick it, such as around the edge of rooms bunnies aren’t allowed in, underneath carpets, etc.  If you live in a warm climate, spread diatomaceous earth in your yard.

Watch out for less obvious flea hiding spots, like laundry.

Don’t view this as a one time thing and expect the fleas to be gone.  You will need to repeat this activity daily or every-other-day for several weeks.  Even if you see immediate results, you need to repeat it.  All you need is a single pregnant flea, or two eggs to survive to have the fleas bounce right back.

Make sure you are treating the environment and bunnies simultaneously.  If you comb out the bunnies, then put them back into their uncleaned condo, the fleas will hide on the bunnies while you are cleaning.  Put the bunnies somewhere flea free while you clean the rest of the house.  The bathroom would work well, since it can be cleaned very easily.

[bunnluff]

Thank you Eepster that is great advice!! Scary, but great. I do have some DE but was worried to use it around the rabbits because of inhalation. But will treat the carpets with it tonight. It’s going to be a long night getting this started but thank you for giving me a place to begin!

[Eepster]

You’re right to be cautious about inhalation. The inhalation worry is a big part of why you can’t just use the DE directly on the bunnies, which would be much easier than combing out all the fleas, and why you can’t just leave a layer all over their condo.

[bunnluff]

So I did several comb throughs on Pippin and didn’t get a single flea and hardly any flea dirt. I feel like this means I should just attack harder. Maybe they’re hiding on her feet or belly. Sneaky suckers they are. The rabbits keep licking one anothers fur almost like they are chewing at or eating something on each other. I checked Bella and even though her fur is really thick, I didn’t see any signs of fleas there. Besides wiping down the cage with vinegar, cleaning all dishes, laundering everything that I can, and treating and vacuuming the carpet and surrounding surfaces, is there other things I can do or am I pretty much covering all the bases? Tomorrow I’m going to mop the floors around the cage as well. As far as treating the actual bunnies, I’m not sure just yet what my plan of action will be. I’ve been using lavender drops on their backs and running through their fur with vinegar in my hands. I’m gonna head to the pet store tomorrow and see if there’s some natural sprays I can use to help the situation.

[bunnluff]

*Small update*
I’m still in the process of scouring my apartment. The other night I sprinkled salt and baking soda all over the living room carpet which is where the rabbits spend the most time when they are out. It sat overnight and in the morning I thoroughly vacuumed. The previous night I also cleaned everything in and around the cage with vinegar solution since fleas hate that. And yesterday I bought a flea trap from Home Depot. I’m still trying to get everything laundered and I guess this is giving me the much needed excuse to spring clean…or fall clean. Presently I still have not seen a flea. Pippin no longer has flea dirt, although both rabbits are still itching and preening quite a bit. I left the flea trap on all night and didn’t attract a single bugger. I think i’ll switch rooms and leave it on 24/7. Wish me luck!!

[BunnymomKS]

Wow, glad I stumbled on this thread – my Shamrock age 10-1/2 Palomino boy has lots of flea dirt – this discovery was made by his companion bunny Frosty yesterday. She was grooming him so much his fur looked like it had been spiked and I went to pet him and saw the flea dirt. Saw flecks plus those weird spiral formations as pictured above. I’ve been brushing out what I can and tomorrow my bunny rescue group leader is going to give me some Advantage for him. What a relief it will be to get rid of the nasty buggers. My roommate has cats and one of them had bad fleas but has now been treated. I should probably also treat the floors and stuff with the diatomaceous Earth.

[bunnluff]

Good luck Bunnymom! Fleas are so nasty.
Anyway I wasn’t sure if my flea trap was working but I just checked it and I finally caught one! I re-combed the girls very thoroughly today with a flea comb and got nothing even after gently checking their feet, tummies and heads. I need to re-sprinkle the carpet tonight to kill anything else possibly there and I’m going to have a major vacuum party tomorrow once again. The girls are still itching but it’s just frustrating that I can’t catch and kill any live ones myself by combing. Hoping this is under control soon.

[BunnymomKS]

I am interested in that flea trap myself – thanks Eepster (great name!) for posting the pic. Since there are 3 cats coming in and out and 1 dog who is elderly and indoors but sometimes goes out, and in any case the fleas can travel on a human, it would be good for monitoring purposes.

Yesterday I did see an actual flea on Shammie but he doesn’t like to be held for grooming and will bite hard (I think he has tender spots in his joints at his age), he hopped away and I’m not sure if I managed to brush the flea away or not. Later I saw one right on the surface of his fur by his tail and flicked that one away. But I understand they are prodigious jumpers and obviously they have a great sense of smell so there’s no way we can be confident they won’t just hop right back on bunny.

Fleas suck!

[bunnluff]

So I’m not exactly sure if what I caught in the trap was a flea. I did have a fruit fly a couple of days ago and it may have been that. Pippin still has some residual flea dirt but not much. I’ve been vacuuming and cleaning and combing like a maniac! I have yet to see a flea, still. The rabbits seem to be scratching less. This may have just been a fluke that I got one flea and that bugger is hiding out and will not die. I will not quit until all traces that it and it’s possible posse are gone for good.

[BunnymomKS]

Well, today I got the Advantage put on Shamrock. And went over him for a long time with the flea comb. Drowned several live fleas and got a lot of flea dirt out. I had had no idea the extent of the problem. Feel sad that I didn’t realize sooner and my poor guy was suffering. But we’ve got the fleas on the run now, I think, and from what I understand there is still more to do – I plan to treat the area with Diatomaceous Earth and treat the other bunny preventatively.

[bunnluff]

Hang in there Bunnymom!! I wanted to do the DE but I was worried about the bunnies inhaling it, (even though I used to put it in their food). So I read that if you use salt or baking soda (I used both) on floor surfaces it pretty much dries up any bugs and their exoskeleton much like it makes snails shrivel. Even though I’m not seeing live fleas, at least you are and you’re killing them which is progress! I feel like mine are hiding and god knows where they are but we are not through here.

[bunnluff]

Just combed both the girls. Pippin still has flea dirt near her tail and I combed several eggs I think out of Bella. I’m so frustrated I could scream. Also my allergies have been horrid and I think it’s the fleas.

[BunnymomKS]

You could be right. Fleas are nasty critters and I wonder if they cause lots of us allergy suffering. My roommate’s cat had them really badly and the flea allergic dermatitis on top of it. She pulled the fur out of her belly and scratched a raw open sore on her neck. Thankfully she’s better – don’t know if she brought the fleas to the bunny or if there were already some on him from either a previous place I lived or from the yard where they have their playpen.

I’m going to get some Diatomaceous Earth today. I heard you can “puff” it into small areas with a turkey baster, or just gently rub it into the carpet or into crevices on a hardwoord or tiled floor using your hands. These methods might result in less getting into the air.

[bunnluff]

Breaking News: I found the source of the fleas!! For weeks I had been meaning to clean out this rubbermaid tub that I keep next to the cage with the rabbit supplies in it. It had spilled food, litter, old hay and toys and such at the bottom and the thing just needed a good cleaning out. Well I was shining a flashlight around in the corner nearby to see if this little spider was catching any fleas and I couldn’t tell. When suddenly a black thing jumped into view which lead me to start rummaging in the bin and that’s where I saw their colony. I removed all the toys and harnesses and put them in an airtight bag, like my mom did with my stuffed animals when I had lice as a child. Then I vacuumed the whole tub and surrounding area and wiped it down well. Earlier this evening I was combing Pippin and caught her tail with the comb as she moved away and her tail started bleeding and now that’s another thing I’m worried about. Glad I finally have an idea of where they were setting up camp but I’m just getting the itchies all over just typing this. Yeesh!

[BunnymomKS]

Thanks a million, bunnluff, for replying! I was just going to ask how your flea battle is going, and say I hope I didn’t take over the thread with my own woes! But that’s very interesting, as I hadn’t known that one could actually find a flea colony! It’s encouraging in a way also, as it can be a way to wipe out a whole bunch of the buggers at one fell swoop.

Shamrock still had quite a few on the rump too. I know the Advantage is supposed to be on the back of the neck so they can’t lick it, but I wonder if I could get some in a spot on the rump where he can’t reach, because that’s the worst infestated area. 

Your bunny should probably be okay w/regards to the bleeding if you keep an eye on it – they heal fast – but it wouldn’t hurt to let the vet have a look – sometimes they may need antibiotics for infection.

I went to Tractor Supply Company yesterday and got a 20-lb. bag of Red Lake brand Food Grade Diatomaceous Earth for $12.99 plus tax. My friend who had given me some DE to give my roommate whose cat had fleas said that was a good bargain. Anyway, I’m going to do the deep clean of Shamrock and Frosty’s cages and area and sprinkle the DE around. From what I’ve learned thus far you don’t have to blanket the place thickly, you just need enough that the fleas will get it on themselves. It cuts their exoskeletons or dries them up but is harmless to animals and humans if used properly.

Shammie sits in the litterbox a lot, and I am going to mix some of the DE into the litter. PetSmart didn’t have the kind I usually get but they had some Kaytee paper litter that was very white so I got a bag of that – should be easy to spot any fleas crawling around in that. But if they come into contact with the diatomaceous earth they hopefully won’t be crawling for very long!

Good luck – keep posting – glad to be able to help each other out. Death to fleas!

[bunnluff]

Haha I’m glad we can give each other advice and vent about our trials. This I’d have to say is almost worse than when we had ear mites. Although that gave me quite a scare. This is just giving me paranoia. I feel like I’m covered in fleas and I itch all over just thinking about it.

I checked out Pippins tail today and it’s already scabbed over. Yesterday I cleaned it with hydrogen peroxide and she didn’t even lick it. I was combing her again today and there is still very light flea dirt but I even wetted her down with a spray bottle and did not get a single live bug from her fur. Bella has been itching but when I comb her, there’s no dirt but what looks like eggs? I mean it could just be her skin attached to the end of her fur since the flea comb pulls kinda hard. I’ve been using pure lavender oil on both their coats once (sometimes twice) a day. Fleas hate the smell of lavender so it will at least keep them from jumping on to snack and hang out and multiply. They also hate vinegar and I’ve been cleaning profusely with that.

I have a tub of food grade DE that I myself take as a supplement and I used to mix it into the bunny food until I got worried about inhalation. Tonight that stuff is going into the carpet. I might have to hit up a feed store to obtain more for this battle, that sounds pretty easy on the pocketbook for such a large bag. That’s a good idea putting it into the litterbox. I’ll have to try that. Anything to win this war!!

I’ll keep you updated as we progress here. Good luck to you too!!

[BunnymomKS]

Hi bunnluff,

I cleaned everything out of Shammie’s cage – swept the old hay and bedding and completely replaced the litterbox. I didn’t mention that due to age he is incontinent so I have to put down pee pads. I mixed DE into the litterbox and sprinkled it on the pee pad too. Hope I didn’t get too much but I think it went into the layers of the pad. It’s hard when first working with the DE to get exactly the correct amount since it’s so fine and poofy.  The pee pads get changed frequently though. In fact, I have to go buy a new pack of them today. Started to put the DE around on the floor also. That will be an ongoing job on hands and knees; it’s a small room and rather cramped. 

Took Shamrock into the bathroom and did another combing/drowning-fleas session . I think I got 4 more fleas. And one is still on him, I tried twice but the little so-and-so eluded me. They can hide so well and crawl through the fur like a boat going through water.  So keep checking, is my advice, you never know. It’s very satisfying to nab and dispatch one, though. 

I’m seeing a lot less dirt, and according to the document below, which is 11 pages of information for veterinarians and very educational about the fleas, the dirt is what the baby fleas eat. So getting rid of the dirt starves them out. Cocoons they say are the most difficult to get rid of.

Just in case you aren’t aware, I should mention that Advantage II for Cats is the only product my vet says is okay to use on rabbits. You can save money by buying the Large Cat one and get more, just divide up the dose for a rabbit by weight – check with your vet on this. Drs. Foster and Smith has a good price and free shipping on orders over $49.

Here’s the flea information document:  http://www.vetmed.vt.edu/vth/sa/clin/cp_handouts/Flea_Information.pdf‎

[mijOok]

I can’t vouch on how effective this is, but since I had found this on the web previously from looking up flea prevention I thought I’d share as it sounds like both of you are in the stages of clearing the flea attack. Boiling rosemary and lemon (both bunny-safe), then wait for the water to cool off can be a natural repellent for fleas. So while it won’t kill the fleas, wetting your hands with it to wipe onto your buns (probably a less groomed area since I don’t know how good it is for them to ingest it) should help repel any leftover fleas from wanting use your buns as a host. Good Luck!

[BunnymomKS]

Thanks for the tip!

[bunnluff]

Thanks Mijook! Might have to try that as well. But quite honestly am thinking about caving and just doing the monthly Advantage flea treatment. I am at my wits end.

Today I found my first live flea on Pippin! It was so gross I immediately jumped up and tossed it in the toilet and flushed it bye bye. This thing was large and had wings. Yikes! I have combed Pippin several times always coming up with dirt but nothing else. Well today I finally got something concrete. Which excites and terrifies me all at once Because if there’s that one, how many others are there? I just want to bathe them both so badly just to drown whatever may be there. The funny thing is, in all the years I lived with my folks the bunnies never once got “fleas”, they’d maybe get one flea and I’d kill it and that was that. Or one tick and we’d pull it out and that was it. But this is just maddening and I honestly sometimes just want to cry really hard.

Thanks for that article Bunnymom I’ll have to check it out a bit later. I hope you are having success dusting with DE and I hope Shamrock will be flea free soon enough!

[BunnymomKS]

There, there, Bunnluff, don’t despair. It’s shocking at first but we can cope with this. Advantage would be good to use and it keeps on killing the fleas in the environment. I found that when I was combing Shamrock I would find 6-10 dirt sites before I found one with an actual flea. But given how quick those buggers can move and be out of sight in the fur before you can nab them, it’s hard to say how many you’re dealing with.

I tended to find the live fleas near sites where the dirt chunks were large and plentiful, probably indicating they’d recently feasted. I had my pan of soapy water handy. The “ones who got away” might be the same flea reappearing or they might be multiple fleas. I go by body count when it comes to measuring success – that, and noting less and less dirt as the combing process goes on.

DEATH TO FLEAS!

Vent anytime you need, I’m following this thread closely.

[bunnluff]

Man it’s been a hectic week! Okay so here’s my news as of now: I’ve been combing the girls every other day and there is nothing coming out at all. They do their occasional itching when they groom but that’s about all I’m seeing. There is no more flea dirt but I am combing out tiny white things which I’m not sure if they are eggs or not, like I said before, it could just be skin attached to the fur. Since I have no other pets and the rabbits don’t have any outdoor exposure, I may have just gotten lucky and caught everything early on. I mean, I’ve been cleaning pretty maniacally and stuff so maybe I’ve lessened the population. I’ve gotten to the point where I just want to keep my place “hospital clean” so no bug would ever want to live here. Fortunately I like to clean

Anyways that stupid flea trap I purchased has done nothing except catch moths and gnats. What a waste, although I suppose it’s nice to not have those particular bugs around as much. The only kind of weird thing I’ve noticed recently is that when I comb the girls, they seem like they are thinner, like they’ve lost weight and their bones protrude a bit through their fur. Their food bowl from morning is usually empty around late afternoon and it’s been pretty full well into the next day sometimes. Maybe they are just eating less, I’m not sure if that’s something I should be worried about. I read all kinds of things that said fleas can deplete certain vitamins or minerals but I think I’m just over paranoid. They are however eating all the hay in the world and their greens too. They also just started shedding their summer coats so that could be a factor.

How is everything on your end? I hope you’ve had some luck and success!!

[BunnymomKS]

Sounds like you’re making progress. I’m no expert, but I’d assume those white things are eggs, if only to be on the safe side. I found a few what I think were eggs on Shammie the other day. Or they could be the shells of eggs that have already hatched . . . 

Shammie was diagnosed with cancer last December on the basis of a blood test; he’s anemic, and he has lost a lot of weight and has the bony shoulders and so on like you describe with your bunnies. And now I’m wondering if fleas have been the problem and whether he even has cancer at all! Which makes me feel bad at the very least that I didn’t aggressively treat for fleas months ago. It’s hard to tell with a senior rabbit. I guess we keep after the fleas and it may become more evident. If he starts regaining weight I’ll think we’re onto something, and maybe get his blood checked again.

I hope to get a combing session in today – even if it’s just a quick check. I have a vendetta against that one missed flea from the other day.

So my advice would be get some extra nutrients into your girls. I feed Oxbow Adult Rabbit pellets to all my bunnies, and Oxbow also has come out with these Hay Tabs that are for different conditions. I have about every kind they make and Shammie gets the Immune one, the Skin and Coat one, among others. And before that, I started giving him human infant vitamin drops with iron (Poly-Vi-Sol brand) about 1/4 teaspoon a day mixed in with about 1/2 teaspoon of banana baby food (which is sweet, so give with caution and if bunny gets runny poops cut back). Shamrock in his prime was 9 lbs. and he’s a Palomino which is a large breed. So your girls if they’re smaller would probably take about half of what I’m describing that I give to Shamrock.

I know that when I started giving him supplements, he was steadier on his feet and just seemed healthier.

[BunnymomKS]

Update since earlier post – I had a combing session and got 4-5 more fleas out of Shamrock’s fur. I don’t know if there was another elusive one – sometimes it’s hard to tell as I’m parting the fur. A shadow can look like a flea sometimes.

That white flaky stuff may be dandruff from where the skin’s been messed with by the fleas. I combed some of that out of him too. 

His fur – I noticed this a couple of weeks ago, whenever this whole business came to my attention – has been thinned out by the flea activity, and is growing in underneath. Either that or it’s just winter coat coming in, a coincidence. But I do think his coat will be nice and thick and (dare I hope) harder for fleas to penetrate down into.

Poor guy, it’s tiring for him, so I must spoil him extra tonight!

[bunnluff]

I’m about to comb my ladies now. But before I do I’m going to vacuum around their cage and clean it out too. Pippin has been experiencing some balance problems the last couple of days which worries me because this is what happened when she got ear mites and head tilt. I’m praying she will be alright but I do have Baytril left over from last time just in case. I’m going to go treat her ears too as a preventative measure. She worries me, that one! And Pippin is a Pal too, at least I think so. She’s the tan beauty in my avatar picture! I’d love to see a photo of precious Shamrock

Wow poor bunny with all these fleas! I know what you mean about the fur thinning out, this may be why Pippin seems so thin. Although she still isn’t really eating her pellets and that worries me too. I comb her for a half an hour straight and nothing ever comes out in the comb so I hope I have this under control for now. I’m just going to be persistent as possible to maintain cleanliness here and discourage future attacks. How is the DE working out? Is it working at all?

I do use all Oxbow products for my girls and Bella actually gets the urinary support tabs now. Just those little jars are pretty expensive and my local pet store doesn’t even carry the immune support one so for now they don’t get any other vitamins.

Will keep you posted!

[bunnluff]

Oh dear, I know what you mean about a flea evading your grasp….was just combing Pippins cheek and I saw that little bugger crawl down her back and hide somewhere. After 20 mins of combing I still didn’t get him! Super annoyed now.

[Eepster]

Posted By bunnluff on 11/19/2013 10:58 PM

Thanks Mijook! Might have to try that as well. But quite honestly am thinking about caving and just doing the monthly Advantage flea treatment. I am at my wits end.

Today I found my first live flea on Pippin! It was so gross I immediately jumped up and tossed it in the toilet and flushed it bye bye. This thing was large and had wings. Yikes! I have combed Pippin several times always coming up with dirt but nothing else. Well today I finally got something concrete. Which excites and terrifies me all at once Because if there’s that one, how many others are there? I just want to bathe them both so badly just to drown whatever may be there. The funny thing is, in all the years I lived with my folks the bunnies never once got “fleas”, they’d maybe get one flea and I’d kill it and that was that. Or one tick and we’d pull it out and that was it. But this is just maddening and I honestly sometimes just want to cry really hard.

Thanks for that article Bunnymom I’ll have to check it out a bit later. I hope you are having success dusting with DE and I hope Shamrock will be flea free soon enough!

I was away for a few days and missed this.  Fleas don’t have wings.  Now I’m wondering if your bunnies are being attacked by some other insect, or if this insect just coincidentally was on your flea infested bunny.  Flees look like this…

They can jump extremely high giving the impression they are flying, but they have no wings.

[CrazyBunMama]

AH that’s no good! There is still something that’s keeping them alive and It may be the bunny food and hay? I would inspect both and see if there are any signs of them in there. I would also invest (If you don’t already have one) in a dehumidifier. Oh there is a spray you can make out of Lemons I’ll send you the link in a message!

[Roberta]

There are indeed several species of winged fleas… Though not cat fleas, mainly dog and bird fleas… They are larger and thinner.

[Eepster]

Posted By Roberta on 11/26/2013 07:46 PM

There are indeed several species of winged fleas… Though not cat fleas, mainly dog and bird fleas… They are larger and thinner.

I’m aware that there are multiple species of flea beside the cat flea.  There is even a rabbit flea.  None of the common ones here in the US look significantly different from the cat flea, and none have wings.

Your location says Australia, which tends to have very different flora and fauna than North America. I wonder if the insects you’re familiar with are only distantly related to the fleas we have here.

This raises the question, where is the OP located?

[Roberta]

They’re not just in Australia. I have seen them here but very rarely and not since I last resided with a dog in the house.
I think age and gender also plays a part in whether or not they have wings in some of the species.

[bunnluff]

I’m located in Northern California. That flea must have just been the “queen” or a large variety. I live near a wooded area where there are also deer and raccoons so it could have definitely been a less domestic flea.

[bunnluff]

UPDATE: I’ve realized the importance of the soapy bowl for drowning fleas that come out in the comb. Twice now I’ve pulled the comb out with a live flea and have attempted to pull it out and squish it, but not only are fleas pretty much resilient, they are lightning quick at jumping away. You cannot squish them between your fingers or even with your foot (I tried). So after two escapees – I was very frustrated at that point – I realized that the soap bowl will be my friend. The flea that got away last night, assuming it was the same one, was actually right behind my heel and I saw it on the floor so I stepped on it hard with my heel and that stunned it and then it hopped but not very far and then I was able to kill it. All while chanting “Die flea, DIE!” like a maniac. Which I guess fleas can make any sane person go a little batty. I’ve also noticed that I’m starting to get bit as well. Nothing too bad just a couple on my foot and one on my arm. Nevertheless, this means that I have more than I thought and they are NOT giving up. Even though I am only finding one or two dirt spots in the fur which means I don’t have an all out infestation, but it could get like that if I didn’t become a crazy person trying to eradicate them. Cleaning, vacuuming and combing have sadly now become a part of my daily routine.

[BunnymomKS]

Sorry for the holiday interruption of my postings!

Wow, these fleas are like some kind of Biblical plague.    bunnluff, I wondered too if that one with wings might have been the Queen Flea! If so, maybe with her gone there’ll be less reproduction? One can only hope.

Although
I read of the rabbit flea, I wonder if my rabbits have cat fleas
because the cat had them. Hard to tell, I suppose. Or they could have
both.

mijOok or CrazyBunMama, is there a recipe for the lemon (and rosemary?), how much to use in how much water?

My Rex girl, Miss Frosty, I was hoping was safe because her coat’s so thick and I parted it and saw no flea dirt. However, there was a baby flea near her eye. So on Monday she gets Advantage for sure. She’s got an odd problem with choking once in a great while. It started when there was a natural gas leak over a year ago. Her respiratory system is sensitive. So I don’t want to treat her till the weekday when the vet would be open if she had a reaction to the Advantage. Hopefully she won’t

Drs. Foster and Smith carries all the Hay Tabs and has free shipping –
do you know other bunny people maybe you could go in on an order with? http://www.drsfostersmith.com/natural-science-tabs-th.html

Here is a pic of my sweeties

 

[jerseygirl]

Bunluff, if you do decide to treat with a med, I recommend Revolution. This will treat both fleas, fur mite, ear mite and some ticks. Living in a wooded area there are quite a few parasites to be on guard for. Also, other parasites and/or bacteria can take advantage of an already taxed immune system so things like mites or bacterial ear infection might recur unfortunately.

A bit concerning the white things you’re seeing. Do you have a magnifying glass to take a closer look?
It could be eggs or skin flakes but my concern is if there are fly eggs or maggots. Is the wound completely healed up near the tail?

ETA: Are you guys both treating your vacuum cleaners also?

[Beka27]

You started this thread almost a month ago…. I’m very worried that this hasn’t been eradicated yet. What is your timeline for getting prescription meds?

I agree with Jersey about Revolution, especially since you’ve had issues with mites as well.

[bunnluff]

Jersey: I’m getting more Benebac for the girls to make their immune systems a bit stronger. And the white stuff is skin I’ve determined. I’ve been combing them to death, poor things! And Yes Pippins tail healed up quickly. I’ve been vacuuming with DE so I doubt theres anything living in my vacuum bag now.

Beka: I may look into Revolution, but I never want to put my fur children in harms way for my own convenience or peace of mind. Pippin doesn’t even do well on antibiotics so of course I’m apprehensive about using something like that. And it is my last resort entirely but a direction that I may be headed if all else fails. As of now (the last few days) I have no live fleas that I’ve seen, no trace of fleas any more and the girls have not been itching like mad but I’m in preventative mode now making sure they are all gone and won’t make a comeback.

[BunnymomKS]

A word of caution – unless you have been recommended to use Revolution by your vet – I help with a rescue and use the same vet as the leader. When one of the foster buns came in with a bad flea infestation, our president was told by the vet that only Advantage II cat is safe for use on rabbits. It comes in various strengths – kitten, small cat, large cat – but you can buy the larger one to save money and just use less.

I promise I’m not a shill for the company that makes Advantage!  Just want to throw that out there for what it may be worth.

Otherwise, onward and upward, and Death to Fleas!

[bunnluff]

Bunnymom there you are!! Your babie are so purdy!! Shamrock looks very much like Pippin. Same coat color and everything. Do you now have to check Frosty daily too? I’ve been checking Bella since day one but she has never exhibited signs of fleas other than itching. Poor Pippin is dealing with inner ear problems again, cannot keep her balance at all so between this and the fleas, I’m ready to lose it! I thought my battle was nearing its end but last night I was doing my obligatory comb on Pip, no dirt at all la la la….whoa out of nowhere a flea in the comb. Down you go sucker, into the soapy bowl of death. Why all of this stuff is happening right now all together and at this time of year, I will never know. God never gives us more than we can handle and I suppose that’s somehow reassuring. I am quite literally in financial throes right now and WOW those flea treatments are quite a pretty penny. No idea what I’m going to do with that. Did you ultimately end up having much success with Advantage? Because if I’m going to do this, I want to do it right the first time around and i’ve been reading good things about Revolution for puppy/kitten on rabbits and other places people say NO to Revolution on rabbits. Thanks for the hay tabs info. Right now Bella is being stubborn and not even eating her “cookies”. I give it to her, she eagerly takes it away into a corner and I come back later to find it fully intact. So I’ll hold off on the tabs for now but will be purchasing Benebac as I had great luck with that in getting Pippins poopy butt taken care of. Hope all is well on your end!

[BunnymomKS]

Wow, bunnluff, you’ve been going through it! True, God doesn’t give us more than we can handle, but as the saying goes, sometimes I wish He didn’t trust me so much!

Hope Pippin’s tilt resolves soon. 

One thing that’s helped me out is knowing other bunny people in my immediate area with whom I can split orders of food, or anything else needed. I hope none of my friends’ bunnies get fleas but they shared Advantage with me so if it came down to it when I get a new supply I would share with them.

This is a crummy time of year for new problems to crop up, I agree.

[bunnluff]

Haha you SO get me! Pippin has been doing better with her balance because I decided to give her the remaining amount of Baytril from last time until I get the Benebac, which is today. Her head hasn’t been tilted this time, but I was worried it might. Also, I’ve taken to combing both of my ladies each night for about 15 mins each and LO AND BEHOLD a live flea on my precious little Bella! She had been scratching but I had never found a thing. The thing is, I’m not finding dirt which means the fleas are likely not making themselves too welcome. I feel like I spend every day off vacuuming and cleaning forever. Fleas aren’t the end all, just really annoying.
I don’t know other bunny owners up here except the lady I board them with who is associated with the House Rabbit Society here. I’ll ask her about flea treatment and I know she gets good deals on everything bunny related.

[mijOok]

Hey BunnymomKS – sorry I missed your other message earlier last week. I don’t have the site anymore for the measurement on the rosemary lemon mix. But from what I remember, I had pretty much boiled for water the amount to fill a spritzer bottle (3-4 cups?) and used one full branch of rosemary and sliced up one lemon which boiled up a very fragrant mixture. If I can find that website I found the original recipe on I’ll be sure to post it here or send you a message. Good Luck!

[BunnymomKS]

Hi again,

bunnluff, according to that one thing I read, if we get the dirt out of the coat we are putting a serious crimp in the fleas’ style, because the newly-hatched fleas feed on the dirt left behind by the bigger ones.

It’s sooooo irritating how a live flea can still burrow down and hide, though. Gross! You are getting skilled at catching them, though, sounds like. When I was first dealing with them and didn’t have the soapy water, I “popped” them between my fingernails. It was difficult – their shells are quite hard. And yes, disgusting.

MijOok, thanks for that, I think I can wing it with that information.

[bunnluff]

I’ll be making the lemon mixture tomorrow since I now have lemons and rosemary. I think you just boil the cut lemons for 5 minutes or so and then let it steep covered for a couple hours or overnight. Strain into a spray bottle and spray away. Or I think you can also use lemon essential oil diluted with a carrier (I like jojoba or olive oil) and spread it through the fur.
I was having one of my frustrating nights last night and decided to carefully rub some DE into Pippins fur, and as I did this, I saw a flea trying desperately to get away so I pinched it and just pulled. It came out with a large chunk of fur but I nabbed that sucker and promptly drowned it. I can’t believed I combed her for around 20 mins before that and got nothing!
I keep reading that fleas are kinda dumb and are attracted to soapy water in a shallow dish placed under a light bulb. Have you tried this? People swear by it but I can’t even get my flea trap to attract them, which is lightbulb based.

[jerseygirl]

bunluff, how is Pippin doing with the balance situation?
Sending {{{vibes}}}.
Do you have anyone you can ask to borrow some dollars in case you do need to rush her to the vet at any point? Or any relatives you’d normally get gifts from but could ask them to help with payment instead of gift giving this year?

[bunnluff]

Posted By jerseygirl on 12/05/2013 10:51 PM

bunluff, how is Pippin doing with the balance situation?
Sending {{{vibes}}}.
Do you have anyone you can ask to borrow some dollars in case you do need to rush her to the vet at any point? Or any relatives you’d normally get gifts from but could ask them to help with payment instead of gift giving this year?

Thanks Jersey, Pippin’s doing wonderful. I prayed about it and decided to use the rest of the Baytril from the previous infection. Overnight was all it took for me to see a difference. Her balance thing was truly scary because she would fall over grooming herself and then just flail around on her back trying to get back up. It broke my heart so much I don’t like to go the antibiotic route unless absolutely necessary and I saw no other way for this, plus I know she will just get stronger with the probiotics as well. I have around $200 set aside for vet emergency and am hoping I won’t need to use it!

[BunnymomKS]

bunnluff, that’s great news about Pippin!

Shammie has had trouble with tipping over this past year since all the trouble started, though he has no signs of tilt. I figured it’s that he’s lost so much weight, his back leg goes way up high on his neck and he overbalances. Interesting how many parallels between our babies’ issues there are, though. I have considered whether he could have any secondary infection from the fleas and am open to the possibility he might need some antibiotic.

Last night I ordered a supply of Advantage from Drs. Foster and Smith; it’s on sale right now and my friend and I are splitting an order of bunny food so that gave me the free shipping amount of merchandise anyway. When the stuff arrives I want to do a thorough flea treatment again and then assess where we are. To me it looks like Shamrock is putting back on some weight. Today is his mini-birthday – I count by months these days – he’s 10 years and 7 months old! Woo hoo!

As for the lightbulb trap, I have yet to try it. I’m living at my friend’s house and we are cramped for space. I want to make sure if I do it that I don’t start a fire or make a mess. What kind of light bulb do you have for your trap? I wonder if these newer “twisty” lightbulbs may not put out the spectrum (including the warmth – infrared) of the old incandescent bulbs. Maybe they don’t attract fleas.(Addendum:  I just found this – apparently green light is attractive to fleas – http://www.ehow.com/how_7709185_kill-fleas-green-light.html).

I think there are other factors involved as well, from what I’ve read – warmth, carbon dioxide, and of course blood. And maybe flea pheromones as well. It may well be that “our” fleas are too happy on our sweet bunnies to be interested in a trap. Well, we’ll just have to show them!

Keep fighting the good fight!

[Eepster]

Porky has always had moments when he would fall over and roll on his back while grooming. It’s when he is standing up and trying to get at his back. I’ve never thought of it as anything but him being a goof ball.

[BunnymomKS]

Shamrock’s tipping over started about this time last year, at the same time as he began peeing everywhere. I took him to the vet thinking he might be developing kidney disease like my other Palomino Annie had had years ago. That’s when he was diagnosed with cancer, but as I’ve said, now I wonder if it wasn’t just the fleas. And I feel guilty – we probably should have treated for fleas at the time; I’ve just not had experience with them, and we’d just moved in with this friend and her cats and dog. And the buns did go out in the exercise pen at our previous apartment and might even have started getting fleas there, no way to tell now.

Anyhow, that horrible day last year, it was December 10th, I came home with Shammie from the vet feeling such grief  and I cried and prayed and felt heartsick. I was thinking I’d probably lose my guy within a month or so – maybe even by Christmas. A day or two later, I told myself to pull it together and focus on the positive and helping Shammie. So I started giving him the supplements and the warm snuggles in bed with me and Metacam for his joints, and he showed improvement.

Now he only does tip if he overbalances – he is a senior citizen after all – and he can right himself. I’ve rarely beaten him to it! He seems to react as if it’s an annoyance and goes right back to whatever he was going to do next. Also, since we’re getting the fleas on the run, he has much less reason to scratch.

Today he and Frosty had their flea treatments. She had a few, on her hind end and smaller ones up by her head. I was able to drown them except for one brazen little so-and-so that was crawling on her ear! Before I could get him he crawled back down into her fur around her face and neck. I saw him again and still had no luck getting him. Hoping he and any of his comrades that might be on either bun run smack-dab into a snootful of Advantage II!

[BunnymomKS]

Proof that I am certifiably insane, I made up a parody song about fleas today.

I was muttering to myself while combing Shammie about wishing a flea was the last flea. And into my nutty little noggin popped the lyrics to the ABBA song “Super Trouper” with its line “Wishing every show was the last show.”

Here is the end result – a little flea humor, if there is such a thing.

Flea Patroller  (to the tune of “Super Trouper” and with apologies to ABBA)

 

Flea Patroller Mom is gonna get ‘em

Kill those darn flea bugs

Those blood sucking thugs

She’s gonna give me lots of hugs

 

We were sick and tired of nasty fleas

Sneaking, hiding all through my coat

Drowning them in dishwash soapy moat

Hoping every flea is the last flea

 

So we’re glad our flea meds they are coming

Soon this bunny’s gonna feel all right

When the meds arrive by FedEx

Ammunition for the fleazie fight

 

And soon the

Flea Patroller’s skill is gonna make me

Shiny-furred and sleek

No more gross bugs – eek!

No-flea zone is what we seek

So soon I’ll

Put flea-ridden days and nights behind me

And I’ll feel so great

I’ll appreciate

My new fur in its flea-free state.   

 

[bunnluff]

Eepster: Pippin was falling down several times a day and I’d hear a crash in her cage or out in the living room quite a bit. She couldn’t even walk a straight line. But she’s better than ever now, so I hope that’s all behind us. When she falls over cleaning herself normally, I laugh because it’s honestly a scream, but this time I just knew she was falling over for another reason so it scared me more than anything.

Bunnymom: That song is hilarious!! And fear not, the fleas would make any sane person absolutely batty.
Shammie sounds like quite the little miracle bun! Here’s hoping to several more healthy years for that little guy. My girls are getting up there in age (almost 8) so I’m trying to take all of these little infections and illnesses in stride. It’s just life.
After treating both rabbit coats and the carpets with DE, I haven’t combed any fleas out, and I’ve been combing every day. To date, I’ve only pulled a total of 4 fleas off the girls and after relocating my flea trap I finally caught one on there too! So I’m not dealing with very many here, and I’m on top of it every day. I haven’t made the lemon spray yet because the DE seems to be doing a nice job so far. But I can’t treat the coats every day. It makes the fur really thick with powder and it’s tough to rub it in everywhere without creating a dust cloud.
Good luck with your flea fight. Hopefully the Advantage will give YOU an advantage and help in this battle that never ends!

[BunnymomKS]

Hi bunnluff, glad you got a kick out of the song.

I had the usual one flea that escaped my grasp on each bun yesterday.  Errrrgh, that makes me mad!  But the buns seem relaxed and happy.

We’re all kind of bored here in the wintertime. The buns so enjoy playing outdoors in their pen, but even if the weather was nice I’d worry about their picking up new fleas. In the spring, I’m going to treat the part of the yard where they play with beneficial nematodes that eat fleas.

[bunnluff]

Well….though I have not seen a live flea in quite awhile, the poor girls are still scratching and I think I’m actually combing eggs out of their fur. How on earth any flea is still able to live in these DE dusted quarters is beyond me. I’m worried to board them in 2 weeks because I don’t want them giving fleas to all the other rabbits! Can I ask for how long do your combing sessions last? Because I comb each rabbit very thoroughly and still never get a thing, no dirt, no flea, nothing but small white flecks…which, yikes. Some days I feel fine about this and other days I feel like I should quarantine them or bathe them or something!! I’m pretty sure last night I got bit too :/

[balakai]

I usually go as natural as possible with all of my animals, but fleas…argh. I tried DE, but it did nothing. NOTHING. I just HATE to use chemicals, but Advantage was the only thing that worked.

I have owned dogs for years, worked in a vet’s office, shown dogs in agility/rally/etc., but I’ve never actually SEEN flea eggs. Do you have access to a microscope? Maybe you are just seeing dead skin flakes.

Maybe your girls have dry skin? I know that I do–starts when the weather cools off and we start using the furnace and woodstove. Is there some type of bunny fatty acid supplement for skin/coat?

[bunnluff]

Posted By balakai on 12/11/2013 01:58 PM

I usually go as natural as possible with all of my animals, but fleas…argh. I tried DE, but it did nothing. NOTHING. I just HATE to use chemicals, but Advantage was the only thing that worked.

I have owned dogs for years, worked in a vet’s office, shown dogs in agility/rally/etc., but I’ve never actually SEEN flea eggs. Do you have access to a microscope? Maybe you are just seeing dead skin flakes.

Maybe your girls have dry skin? I know that I do–starts when the weather cools off and we start using the furnace and woodstove. Is there some type of bunny fatty acid supplement for skin/coat?

I wish I had a microscope! That was my favorite part of biology. I guess this is the first time I’ve actually been combing/brushing them every single day so more than likely it is just dried skin. It’s been really dry and cold here, I’ve been running the heater every night and my hands and lips are cracked and sore. I just thought it was eggs because they were white but originally I thought they were skin flakes because they were attached to the end of the fur and also the bunnies are in the middle of their molt. I actually saved some fur with these flakes in a ziploc bag with a pocket of air to see if those white things “hatch” and so far nothing. I’m probably worried about nothing. Also I think the DE could have dried out their skin so that could potentially be a culprit. If it’s not one thing, it’s another! haha

[BunnymomKS]

I’m guessing the flakes, especially if irregularly shaped, are bits of skin. I think this because I found them in places on Shammie where there had been evidence (dirt, etc.) of flea activity but maybe nothing new. Like they were where fleas had bitten, then the skin healed and flaked a bit. But I could be wrong – a microscope would come in handy sometimes wouldn’t it?

I found this article tonight – it’s a good one with information I didn’t know about fleas, such as that the small ones aren’t “babies,” they’re smaller adults. Lovely.

 http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?A=3237

[bunnluff]

Yikes that article just freaked me out!!

Yes the white pieces are all shapes, not uniform. I have not seen any type of flea activity in this whole week. I’ve been alternating treating the carpets with salt and DE, leaving for 3 days, vacuuming and then repeating. It’s been pretty cold here, not freezing but cold enough and I know fleas hate that. They’re either lying dormant somewhere or I am effectively ridding my apartment of them!

[bunnluff]

Just when I thought the coast was clearing…my flea trap caught another flea :/ This appears to be a losing battle. I haven’t been diligently combing the girls anymore because I haven’t even seen them scratching, so the combing has been maybe every other day or every 2 days when I can find time. This makes me so mad! When I do comb, there’s nothing to speak of, no traces of anything still. maybe the fleas are around but not feasting on my babies. Maybe they are just THERE, making a home and being disgusting. But then what are they eating to survive? Hope your flea troubles are long gone. Mine sadly aren’t.

[BunnymomKS]

Hi, sorry I’ve been lax in my posting lately. Holiday distractions, y’know. I was going to comb the kids yesterday but then went to church so didn’t get a chance to. We had the winter storm go through and it made everything cattywampus for awhile. And before that (gotta love Kansas) we had some nice warm days so I had them out on the deck. I was checking their coats then and finding a little dirt in 2 or 3 places, no live fleas.

So, I need to assess where we stand right now. I don’t think one can say with any certainty when a flea problem is completely over but if we can get it under reasonable control and then just keep checking, and dose with the meds when necessary, the bunnies will be a lot better off than before.

[Author]

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