Spay complications – Need collar suggestions

[msarro]

Well, Layla has been eating ok, and seeming pretty well back to normal. I’ve been keeping her in a small quarentine cage, and looking at her incision whenever she stands. Well, last night at about 3:45am I came in late, and wanted to check on her before bed. I noticed that her incision looked redder than normal, and rolled her (despite her protests). I stared at a hole in my rabbit. She apparently decided that her stitches would be tasty, and had ripped about half of the sutures out.

Thankfully the animal hospital is open because I was freaking out, and we took her in to their ER. Layla freaked out on the examining table when we were trying to roll her into a bunny burrito and ended up taking a dive off the examination table (they moved her there off the floor for better light to look at the incision). Needless to say, this led to a terrified, wounded bunny. Luckily the exotic vet was willing to sacrifice her day off to come in and take care of Layla. According to the nurses, it looked like the skin around had been open for more than 24 hours because it was drying out. This made me feel like a complete failure because I hadn’t looked closer – she always gets upset when you try to roll her over and I figured it would be less stressful if I just checked when she stood in her cage. Now I know thats a bad idea.

Anyways, they admitted her this morning at about 4am, and we came back to pick her up this evening. They had to put her under anesthesia, re-open the incision, freshen the skin around the incision (ie: remove the dried skin), and re-suture her. She is now in an e-collar for at least a week, and has a pretty hefty amount of meds to take. They also provided a bag of oxbow critical care to make sure she is getting enough food in her system because the e-collar is making it hard for her to eat. I have to bring her back for a follow-up in a week. More pain meds, and this time, antibiotics in case anything got in her open wound.

I feel so bad for her… she’s just sitting there staring off into space. She is trying to scratch her face, and lick her paws, and do everything else and she can’t because of the collar. I know its for her own good but I just feel so bad for her

On the upside, her appetite has appeared to return in full force. She ate a full organic carrot top, and a bin full of hay which I am just going to keep re-filling til she’s done. Luckily she can reach the hay. She has some trouble getting the water because the edge of the collar is getting caught on the chew guard I have on the water bottle… I need to figure out a way to make that work. I’m also not sure what I’m going to do with the food pellets, or if I should even bother with them until the week is up and she gets her collar off. I also don’t think she can reach her pellets, but I’m going to see if the level goes down in the dish.

Any suggestions on how to make her life more bearable until the follow up? Or about the pellets?

Also, for anyone who gets a bunny spayed, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE find a way to take a careful look at the incision at least twice a day. Even if your rabbit hates being on their back and you’re worried about them opening the sutures fighting you. Figure it out. I feel foolish enough, and I don’t want anyone else to repeat my mistake.

Ok, venting over. Was a really rough day

[jerseygirl]

It sure has been rough. Sorry to hear of this development. Please don’t feel at fault though. Your post spay care has been very adequate in my opinion. You checked on her incision without upsetting her or causing a struggle. Her attacking her stitches is hardly your fault and the 24 hr thing is just a guess. There could be other reasons her skin dried around the incision. All that aside, she has received great care and now it’s phase 2 I guess. That she’s eating etc is great! Tells me she feels okay and you needn’t fear about her GI tract slowing down.

I wonder if instead or a collar there in a way you can cover her incision. With a light bandage right around her body or a small dog coat? That way she can groom and eat easily and if you are worried, put the collar back on overnight or when you’re not there to check n her regularly. Don’t know if this is a good idea and would like others to weigh in. You’d have to be careful the incision area didn’t over heat or become itchy and irritable.

[RabbitPam]

I agree that you did your best and knowing she’d struggle hard, found a clever way to check her stitches without harming her. The pulling of stitches could have happened withiin an hour of your checking her, gone to bed, and not known for at least 8 more hours, so don’t blame yourself. Sometimes vets could SHOW bunny moms how to do these things.

Why don’t you hand feed her pellets like treats? Pop her a couple, examine her, then feed her more afterwards. She’ll get her food and you’ll be a good guy again.

[RachelF]

Aww I’m so sorry about the complications. Not your fault, whos to know how a buns going to react to stitches– if something was on me and I didn’t understand what it was, I’d want it off too. (((hugs))) and prayers for a great recovery. Your doing the right thing!

[Beka27]

the poor thing! i agree, please DO NOT blame yourself! you did everything correctly. 9 out of 10 buns will leave the incision alone, who knows why the tenth bun will go after it. i know in people if you have a cut and as it heals, it might itch sometimes, so maybe she was itchy and then she started pulling them out?

i like Pam’s idea of handfeeding pellets like treats. i do this with my buns sometimes for the interaction (without the risk of overfeeding sugary treats) but i bet that would work for Layla. can you remove the chew guard from the water bottle, or position it up higher where she can reach? or feed her veggies very very wet so she takes in the excess water? it’s great that she’s eating hay, that is SO IMPORTANT!

do you know how to take the collar on and off? i think you could take it off of her while you were closely supervising and then put it back on, but i think they can be hard to get on sometimes, so you’d have to make sure you knew how to do it correctly.

feel better Layla!

[msarro]

Well, I woke up this morning to give her her pain meds and antibiotics and check on her incision. I also mixed up some critical care and fed her a few syringes full. She really does not seem to like it… the only way she was willing to swallow was if I filled her mouth so much she had no choice, or if I was able to get her to move a little without her leaving her bunny burrito. The doctor perscribed 35mls of critical care every 8 hours… so far I’m at 9… this is going to take awhile. Luckily she gobbled up her medicines.

As for collar, I’m going to leave it on. It’s cost close to a thousand dollars now to get her spayed, and then to get all the work last night done. If she rips out the stitches, she’s out of luck because I’m completely broke at this point I’ll let the doctor remove it since they didn’t show me how at her 7-10 day checkup. That way I can be pretty sure that the stitches are at least starting to heal up before its removed. I’m going to make the executive decision to sacrifice her comfort for the time being to ensure she’s safe.

As for Layla, well, she hates me right now and I’ll live with that til she gets better.

[msarro]

Well, I tried to get more critical care into her and she just doesn’t want it. I put about 1cc more in her mouth and she refused to swallow it, it just kind of ran out the side of her mouth. I cleaned out her collar and tried again and she still wouldn’t take it. So, I managed to get about 10ml into her so far today, less than a third of the 35ml she needs.

She doesn’t mind the other stuff though, so I don’t think its an issue with me syringe feeding (I grew up around animals so I know how to feed with a syringe ). She just seems to detest the stuff. I gave her some carrot greens and some cilantro and I spread the critical care on one piece. She nibbled it until she reached the part with the critical care and she just dropped it and moved to another piece.

Since she can eat greens and she appears to be eating hay I think she’ll be alright, but I still want to try to get some of the critical care into her system for the water content and to make sure she is getting what she’d need from pellets. I’m just trying to focus on the fact she’s eating something this soon after being opened back up. She still hasn’t touched her water and I’m kind of at a loss for how to help her. It’s as high as it can go for now, and she actually could get to it if she stood in a different place… i tried to show her a few times by nudgeing her head forward towards the nozzle. I’m going to see if I can find a small bowl and fill it with water. Maybe that will help?

Her greens have been soaked in water every time I give them to her, so that’s something. That plus the water in the critical care…

[Balefulregards]

What about those bunny belly bands I’ve seen?

Coco nipped at her stitches and I had a collar in case she pulled them out – but I also knew that she would HATE the collar – so I poked around and saw those belly bands which looked like a better solution. Especially as she was slow to regain her appetite with her spay.

However, Coco fully healed BEFORE she succeeded in getting all of her stitches out – which I found out when I took her in to have them removed. She had already gotten them all out….

[Scarlet_Rose]

msarro I am very sorry to hear about the complications. I too was going to pop in a suggest a belly band. Wrap some gauze around then take a tube sock with the end cut off and put it around the belly. I think it is more agreeable to a bunny than a collar.

[msarro]

I’m going to try the sock thing in about 24 hours. I want to make sure that the wound is well on its way to healing up before I let her have even remote access to it. I still can’t get her to take the critical care. I came back and it looked like she had pretty much drained her water bottle trying to get water. I’m going to see if I can’t get her to take some water by syringe with the collar on yet tonight.

[Scarlet_Rose]

O.K. no critical care, how about veggies like a fragrant cilantro, have you tried canned pumpkin or mashing up a banana and mixing it with the CC? Have you tried different consistencies of CC?

[msarro]

So far I’ve tried very pastey up through the point where it was almost liquid with the same results, she just doesn’t want it. For now I’m going to let it be since its only the day after they opened her up. Maybe she’s just being picky? Tomorrow I’m going to pick up some gauze and get an extra large sock and try to make a belly wrap as suggested. The doctor ordered she keep the cone on but she keeps spazzing out about it

[RabbitPam]

I was wondering if it’s OK to mix flavoring with critical care. I’m thinking natural, unsweetened apple juice, or pumpkin juice – something to make it taste a little better. Mashed bananas is probably worth a try. You’re gut says to leave the collar on, so I agree with that. It’s for her own good, you could syringe some plain water to get a bit in her, and the more she’s in the collar, the better she’ll heal. Hang in there.

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

I totally agree -it’s not your fault at all and don’t blame yourself-and Thank goodness it turned out OK and there was an exotic vet who could come in-that’s wonderful!!

My vet sends all animals home with an e collar and they are a pain in the butt. I find they usually get them off themselves once they are off the metacam and feeling good again (they’re probably like ‘this is coming off now!” bad bunnies)

Anyways one thing I’ve done is trim it a bit and smooth it off so their mouth reaches the end of the collar-that helps them reach food. They aren’t able to get at the stitches like that but they can eat easier.

If you have lots of meds to give her, it might keep her groggy enough to keep the collar on too.
I also hand feed/water them when they have the collar on just to ensure they are eating well-it is hard for them with the collar on.

Rabbitpam, it’s totally find to mix critical care; I’ve mixed with 100% juice or baby food (often they’ll just eat it if it’s in the baby food too!)

[Scarlet_Rose]

Msarro since fluids are a concern, try some Pedialyte and either syringe that in or mix it with the CC. Have you tried some alfalfa hay to tempt her? Seriously anything to get her to eat is the biggest thing here – especially fiber. Baby food works well too, or even try some unsweetened juice like K&K mentioned. If she is not eating soon, you should definately call the vet and you may need to move on some gut motility drugs and/or different pain killer.

[msarro]

Thanks for your replies everyone. I’m going to try to trim her collar a little bit if I can get her to hold still while I do it. I was able to get some cilantro into her which is a start. The greens were soaking wet so it’ll at least give her some water. Just cleaned her cage and on the upside she appears to have been pooping relatively normally.

[msarro]

Tried Kokaneeandkahlua’s advice and trimmed down the cone of the collar by about 1.5 inches, so its just a little past where her nose is by a few mm’s. She can’t reach her wound but she doesn’t seem to be falling over quite as much or getting caught on as many things. I’m going to play it by ear and see if her food is going down any, or water by tomorrow morning when its medicine time. Here is hoping *fingers crossed*

Til then I fed her some more greens just to make sure she has enough food to get by.

One day down, 6 to go

[somebunny]

poor little baby! i hope she gets better soon. i think the band around the belly is a good idea too.. like a sock or something?

[Beka27]

any update?

[msarro]

Well, I tried to make a belly wrap as suggested and sadly layla is a bit too chubby for any of my socks to work, so it looks like she’s going to be wearing her cone for now. Like I said, I trimmed it back a bit, however she can now nibble on the edges of the cone. I went to bed dreading she’d have chewed out by morning but luckily no such thing had occurred, just a little nibbling on the edges. The surgical tape I used was chewed off, thank god I used that instead of masking tape like I was originally going to because I can’t imagine surgical tape would be toxic. I gave her her morning pain killers without any issue, so thats good. When I get home it’ll be another carrot top and cilantro soaked in water. She does seem to be eating well which is awesome, she just has trouble eating with the cone.

Is it 7 days yet? lol

As an aside, about how much water should a rabbit drink in a day? If I have to give her water with a syringe I need to know approximately how much she should be getting

[Beka27]

a rough estimate is 2-4 oz. that will vary depending on season (mine drink less in the winter), amount of hay being eaten, how wet the veggies are…

[msarro]

Hmm, I doubt I’ll be able to get near that amount into her system with a syringe The greens are usually dripping wet when she eats them so thats something at least.

[Beka27]

you can check the skin for hydration but i don’t personally know how to do it. someone else more knowledgable on the subject should be able to desrcibe how to do it for you…

[bunnytowne]

OK checking the skin for hydration.    I know with greyhounds you pull up on the loose skin.  If it sticks together for a few seconds then the dog is dehyrated.   If it falls back down quickly then the dog is properly hydrated.     

The water do you have a bottle or a crock?   if a bottle can you take it off the cage and hold it for her to drink from?  Til she is satisfied?

OH you are really going through a lot right now.   How awful.  You will get through this and so will your little girl.   A few more days. 

Gosh she really tore into those stitches.  Goodness bad bunny.  I wonder if it was itchy and drove her nuts.  She probably waited til you went to bed to pull them out.  in secret.   What a difficult girl she is.  Hey this could have happened to any one of us too.  I was scared to hold Ruby on her back and check.  I kind of stood her up a little.  Sort of like you did. I didn’t want to hurt her.  I know you didn’t want to hurt your girl either. You did what any caring bunny Mum would have done.  How were you to know she would decide to go ballistic on the stitches.  Usually they don’t.

What is with all our buns being so naughty lately?

[Balefulregards]

What about an ACE bandage type material for the Band – That way it is more flexible with her belly – but gives nice firm support and coverage.

She might nip at the bandage…but I doubt she will get through all the layers. Then again, Layla DOES sound like a rather head strong girl!

[MooBunnay]

I’m sorry to hear about the spay complications – it is great that you caught that so quickly before it got infected or turned into something very serious. Its great that she is actually eating on her own, hopefully the 6 days will go by faster than you think!

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

BT I believe your right, should work on any animal for hydration testing; Pinch the skin (tent test) and if it goes back to normal asap they are hydrated, if not they are dehydrated
Keep us posted on the progress!!

[msarro]

Well, so far she still isn’t really drinking out of her bottle. If I grab it for her and hold it down she seems completely disinterested. I’m going to take the cone off friday, she managed to worm her way out of it yesterday while I was at work and her stitches were ok so I’m hoping its healed up enough to stop itching. It’ll definately be healed up by friday (going to call her vet and confirm that).

She was petrified when I put her cone back on but I just can’t get anything to replace it right now. My transmission just died on my car and with christmas on top of that, and my best friends wedding… well, she chose the worst possible time to attack her stitches. Too much stuff coming from too many angles.

For now she has been doing ok. She’s nibbling at hay through the bars, and she’s been eating about 8 stalks of cilantro a day, soaked. It seems to be the only thing she’s eating with gusto so, despite it not being the best thing, I’ll let her have it. She still won’t take the critical care, even with pedialyte

Sorry for the delay in updating, my hard drive died on my laptop, so I’m posting from work now.

[Scarlet_Rose]

Thank you bunnytowne for sharing that valuable information! You are correct, the pinch test does work for bunnies too.  msarro, you can try an ace bandage as a belly band too but I think that what you have works just fine and trimming down the collar was a great suggestion K&K!  I’ll keep my fingers crossed for you!

 

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

How she doing now?

[msarro]

Sorry for the delays in getting back to ya’ll. With the holidays I wasn’t at work much, and without a computer I couldn’t update! Layla is doing great. They removed her cone on tuesday with no complications. She’s all healed up, and back in her bunny palace. The first day or two she seemed kind of… well, not bunny-ish. She didn’t scamper around the floor or anything. If we brought her out, she just kind of sat where we put her, not at all like herself. She’s doing a lot better now. Thanks for helping me get through it everyone

Here is a picture from just yesterday, Layla and the girlfriend napping…

 

[RabbitPam]

What a beautiful picture.
So glad to hear she’s fine now. I am having Samantha spayed late February, and was interested in your issues so I can know how to deal with the unexpected. Actually, because of Layla I have gone ahead and purchased Pet Insurance. I don’t believe it covers the spay, but if there are similar complications I hope it will help. You are a devoted bunny parent to do whatever it took to care for Layla. But that was a hard financial hit during the holidays. Let’s hope 2009 brings you, Layla and GF a healthy year.

[Beka27]

what a sweet pic! so glad to hear things are better with Layla!

[Balefulregards]

I was just thinking of you all too.
Good to hear she is truly on the mend – and you are ALL healing.

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

Awww that’s such a cute picture!! I’m glad she’s feeling better now!

[Author]

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