Small poops

[GlennTheLionhead]

Hello everyone.

Nellie’s poops seems to have halved in size the last week or so, they are also darker than usual. Some context – she did have her year vaccinations 2 weeks ago..? She has been health checked by the vet that vaxed her and by her exotic just yesterday, teeth are all in order and she seems healthy, her exotic mentioned her hips were a bit bony but she hasn’t really lost any weight, maybe 0.02 kg since last year. He mentioned sometimes the rabbits age differently. She’s going through a molt though I haven’t noticed small poops in previous molts. She seems like she’s eating a little less hay than usual but she is still eating a variety of foods and is pretty keen to eat. She has develop some small mild sore hocks, she lives on carpet. She’s getting on in age now, we are not exactly sure as she is a rescue but it’s estimated she could be 7-9 now, she does act like an older lady, quite lazy compared to Glenn but nothing outside of her usual. Her older personality could be due to her tough past life taking its toll.

Has anyone experienced anything similar before or think any of the above things could be the culprit? She has been fed washed grass from the garden recently so I don’t know if a potential parasite could be a culprit too. Perhaps this is just due to declining age, I’m sure it’s not out of the realm of possibility that she could be a year or more older than what was estimated.

Any thoughts or advice would be appreciated! Thanks

[mia]

I’ve had a few experiences with smaller poops.

One was across a few years and eventually they were like crumbs. There were eventually other symptoms but the gradual smaller poops were the first sign. He passed away after a few years; autopsy showed it was a rare bacteria.

My old man (13+) currently just went through an acute small poop episode. First, his poops have already been a little smaller than when he was younger. This is a gradual change and not drastic difference since he’s 2lbs so his poops have always been small. This I believe is just age. However, the acute episode I believe is because of difficult time getting to his cecals. He has arthritis and I found a couple incidences where there was a dried poopy mess back there. Anyway, upped pain meds, cleaned him up, gave probiotics, poops better. Still have to figure out if there’s anything else as he’s not as keen on eating pellets but eats everything else, albeit slower than when he was younger. His weight did not change during the acute episode.

My young bun also had smaller poops too while she was molting. She also lost significant weight and had a giant bald patch. The poop size matched a bun with the lower weight. It was all because of the molting. Tried to get her to eat more but didn’t really succeed. She is back to normal after fur grew back.

 

I would be very concerned if I saw poops that decreased half in size in such a short period. Don’t think this is due to only age as that should be a gradual process. I’d take her in for a checkup. If you haven’t already, double check water consumption.

[GlennTheLionhead]

Sorry to hear about your troubles with the small poops as well, I’m glad you were generally able to tell what the cause was. It’s good to note about the gradual small poops with age! I will keep that one in mind.

Yes, we did take her to see two vets just before this post, including our exotic who health checked her and she appeared fine, normal weight etc.

She has been going through a molt so maybe this played a factor. They are starting to increase in size again after pushing more hay.

Going to monitor this closely and take her in for another weight check in a month or so or if the poops don’t continue to improve.

[DanaNM]

My guess is that she’s eating less hay, it can be harder to keep track in bonded pairs. In my experience that seems to be the most tied to poop size. It could be a symptom of of something more acute, but is she showing any signs of arthritis? Sometimes they can start getting arthritis in their jaw and will eat less hay. It could be time to put her on some daily meloxicam if you notice some other signs of arthritis.

When Bun Jovi really started showing his age, we would supplement him with oat hay which he loved. It really helped him eat more and his poops improved. Eventually he started having more trouble with that, and we supplemented him with Emeraid Herbivore Sustain daily which really helped him.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[GlennTheLionhead]

The good news is they have increased in size a bit now.

We have been butting hay closer to her sleeping area and since then the poops have improved…  I think your suspicions of arthritis could be a culprit, I’m wondering if she’s feeling too sore to move too much and that’s why she not going to the designated litter area for hay. She does show other signs of arthritis like general laziness and our exotics has suggested that arthritis could be a cause of her somewhat frequent stasis issues as perhaps she’s sore and doesn’t eat, gets gassy etc.

I am hoping it’s nothing acute but we are monitoring her weight as some way to keep an eye on this, she’s was cleared on a general health check so it’s become a stalemate of we either do more invasive tests likes xrays / exploratory surgey, or just wait ans see if she declines – but the vet is a little against invasive tests while she is showing no other bad signs because it’s risky to put her under anesthetic without sure signs of something more sinister, particularly given her advancing age…. So it’s is pretty difficult to judge what is in her best interest at the moment, just trying to do our best to keep her day to day happy and treat her if shes gassy. Not sure if others have experienced this kind of situation and how you handled it?

We do get Loxicom prescribed to keep on hand for her gas and the vet has said she can have this daily to treat for suspected arthritis – the only issue is it’s very impractical to medicate her daily, she has serious crippling anxiety, I know many buns are nervous but Nellie is something else, she will tremble during vet visits and when getting medication and vets have commented on how terrified she is when being handled. If I were to medicated her daily it would completely destroy the small bond that we do have now. Currently she will relax around us and even take some pets if she’s eating treats or pellets but when she does get sick after a couple days of medication she becomes so fearful that she runs and hides just if we enter the room and we have to leave the room just for her to come out and eat… So naturally I am reluctant to put this kind of stress on her by daily medication…. I’m guessing this is some kind of trauma from her previous owners, it’s quite sad really that she’s so terrified of humans. She’s tonnes more relaxed with us now compared to when we first adopted her but her distrust in humans seems to run really deep!

I would be more than open to suggestions about this and ways to treat her arthritis.

[DanaNM]

I think daily meloxicam is a good idea… usually it tastes sweet and most buns will take it willingly if they aren’t already ill. I also know of people who’ve started training buns to take meds from a syringe by starting with a syringe filled with mashed banana. Maybe something like that could work? Start with just banana, and then once she’s used to that you can mix in the meds? The key is to make her see it as a treat!

Or mixed with mashed banana on a spoon, if she’s very averse to the syringe? I used to give Bun Jovi his daily meds mixed with banana on a small dish.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[GlennTheLionhead]

Thanks!

I must admit I’m a bit worried about daily Loxicom because of the problems it can eventually cause, she could be older but is suspected about 7-9 yrs old so I hope it’s not too young to start daily meloxicom.

Never the less I have began trialling everyday Loxicom. She is offended by banana haha, thumps and runs when you show it to her… Not sure where that come from lol and she is adverse to a syringe because of the strong association with handling from her gas bouts.

I started simple today and put a tiny bit of Loxicom on a pellet, the pellet kind of absorbed it which was good! Nellie was hesitant, gave it a sniff and was considering eating it for a couple minutes, that was until Glenn came out of no where and ate it… Should have seen that one coming lol, good to know it works for Glenn though if he needs it in future (was only 0.1ml so please don’t worry).

She did look like she was warming up to the idea of taking a bite so I will try a new treat / food everyday going from basic every days treats up to more creative mashes until we can find a solution! Apple is a crowd favourite in this house but I’d be concerned about giving this daily – I suppose I could also reverse engineer this by starting with something like apple and then going to healthier foods as she becomes acustom to the taste!

Thanks for your help! I’ll keep you updated.

[DanaNM]

A little apple each day isn’t the end of the world! I got creative with different baby foods with Bun Jovi’s daily meds. I think the kale and apple one was a hit if memory serves

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[pinkiemarie]

I’m glad she has some meds, I hope it helps! Since she seems to be in pain I wanted to ask if you’ve made her food and litter area more accessible? Regular litter boxes can be pretty high to jump into. We cut a long/wide storage container so it has a really low entrance for our small bunny but I bet it would help with a mobility impaired bunny too.

[GlennTheLionhead]

That’s great, I didn’t realise buns could eat baby food, are there certain types that wouldn’t be suitable? I don’t have children so I’ve never actually bought baby food before.

And yes, thank you for the suggestion about the litter tray, we do have an easy access tray, we use an old cage bottom and have saw’ed off one of the narrow ends to nearly flat so they can walk right in, it’s also nice and big so they can be comfortable, we did this about a year ago when we noticed they’d occasionally pee next to the tray.

Nellie is now taking her dose off her favourite treat, it took several days of getting her used to the flavour but it works now, we plan to change up the treats to give her variety.

For anyone who has had buns on daily Loxicom for arthritis, what dose did you typically give? I’m a tad worried about how taxing daily meds are on the kidneys. How long can I expect to give her daily meds before they eventually cause too much damage? I’m just wanting to be prepared for what to expect and wondering if lower doses are better for chronic pain?

Thanks!

[Bam]

Baby food that has non-veg components (meat, fish, chicken etc) wouldn’t be suitable, but that’s obvious. The fruit ones tend to not have added sugar, but they’re as a rule sweet bc of banana or mango or pear, since kids of course like sweet taste. I’ve only given “baby smoothie” to rabbits, in tiny amounts mixed with meds.

Meloxicam (loxicom and other brand names) is as a rule well tolerated long term. My bun Vilde was on a high dose for his last 1 year and 8 months. We have had other elderbuns here who were prescribed meloxicam for years due to arthritis, some on even higher doses than the max dose stated by Medirabbit (0.3 -1.5 mg per kilo body weight).

Rabbits metabolize meloxicam quickly, a lot quicker than dogs and cats, so that’s why rabbits need a (much) higher dose.  Meloxicam can, as any NSAID (non-steroid anti-inflammatory drug), be hard on the stomach lining, so for longer term use you should also give Pepcid (famotidine). This is to prevent gastric ulceration. Pepcid is OTC.  (Most vets here will prescribe Pepcid together with short term meloxi use as well, but that’s not common practice in the USA).

As for dosage, you typically give a dose of say 0.5 mg/kilo or even higher for 1-2 weeks, to bring the acute inflammation down. Then you start lowering the dose to find the lowest dose that’s still effective. This is of course hard to tell and you can only judge by observing the rabbit’s activity level, appetite and general curuosity/interest in life -ie things that indicate good quality of life. As time passes you may have to adjust the dose up, since arthritis typically doesnt stop progressing, albeit it progresses a lot slower when the bun is on meloxicam. Meloxicam enables the bun to keep moving around and get “exercise” which maintains muscle and a good blood flow. Joints are stabilized by muscles. Exercise is also beneficial for the GI system, it helps the movement of the intestines. Jumping from high places should be discouraged though bc of impact on landing. Its good if she can learn to use a ramp or similar to get up and down from the sofa or bed or other high up places where she’s allowed and likes to hang out.

Then one day meloxicam alone might not be enough to control the arthritic pain, and you will perhaps need to combine it with gabapentin or tramadol. Hopefully that won’t be until years from now.

 

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