sick bunny / can’t swallow food or water

[ShadowF]

We have a 5 year old lop eared bunny that seems to have lost the ability to swallow and is in dire straits. She desperately tries to eat and stuffs her mouth but everything just sits at the back of her mouth. She is wet under her chin, on her chest and front paws due to drooling. She tries to eat but is basically starving. The vet first thought she had a molar problem and did surgery, but no change only that  she is weaker. They did not notice anything in het esophagus and x-rays show nothing. She has pain meds and antibiotics but they just run back out when syringed in, food does as well (critical care, applesauce, pumpkin, banana). Does anyone have any ideas as to what could be wrong with her? The vet says it must be neurological and outlook is bad!  Please help!!

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

You NEED to get her to a vet who can treat her now instead of sending you home with oral medications when she can’t eat!!!!!

What city do you live in so we can recommend a vet??

[Beka27]

i’m not sure what to tell you. if you’ve already exhausted the possibilities of teeth problems, done xrays to verify there is nothing caught, i’m not really sure what else you’d be able to do. i wonder if anyone else has ever seen something like this. can the vet give you injections for pain meds?

[ShadowF]

We live near St. Louis, Missouri. She has had Subcutaneous fluids, and shots of Reglan, Baytril, and some other antibiotic.

Thanks!

[LittlePuffyTail]

I’m sure one of our American members will be able to suggest a vet for you. You may have to drive aways but I’m sure it would be worth it if it could possibly help your bunny.

Sending you lots of <<<Get Well Vibes>> for your bunny. Good luck and hang in there, hun.

[BinkyBunny]

OKAY FOUND A VET LIST FROM THE ST LOUIS CHAPTER  http://www.hrsmostl.com/VeterinariansApprovedforRabbits.htmlI

I just emailed you as well, as this is an emergency, and getting a second opinion could save your bunny’s life.

Try call the St. Louis Chapter of the House Rabbit Society.   314-995-1457    I bet they will have vet recommendations.  Here’s their website. http://www.hrsmostl.com/

In the meantime I’m searching for vets. 

Also, Dana Krempels is a great resource to ask medical questions as well.   http://www.allexperts.com/user.cgi?m=4&expID=35789&catID=703 However, it will take her 24 hours to answer you and so this is more to ask her about the treatment that a new or current vet is giving you.   You still need to get help for this bunny asap.

 

 

[rabbitsmba]

Oh this is so sad! I agree – get to a vet fast! And please make sure they are rabbit-savvy. I don’t mean to make it sound like your vet doesn’t know anything but some vets who say they treat rabbits really don’t know the intricacies of it. And a second opinion is always a good idea. Follow what Binky Bunny said and please keep us posted. Healing vibes and kisses to your bunny….

[bunnytowne]

Oh my that sounds like an emergency.   Hopefully you can find a vet with the info you have received.  Bring bun in ASAP even if an emergency vet. Sounds serious.

[Deleted User]

<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>.

keep us posted

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

Please keep us posted!! {{ VIBES }}

[Scarlet_Rose]

I too would strongly suggest another vet and also e-mail Dana Krempels. I am wondering if the muscles used to swallow are paralyzed from some kind of seizure. How far back did you put the syringe to feed?

[Hedi]

Let us know as soon as you find anything else out.

I don’t want to scare you but sounds as if she has maybe had a stroke…

[ShadowF]

I have been mixing critical care with baby applesauce and water and she is eating it somehow because there is still poops and very little urine. She is determined to get food down somehow. She doen’t drink but must be getting all of her liquid from food paste I am making. She is now very unstable and props herself up with the litter box but can’t get in it. Seems to not have control of legs. The vet says it sounds like Encephalitozoon cuniculi.  Has anyone had any experience with this? What are the chances she will get better and be able to eat and drink again and get around? Or should we consider putting her down? I am very upset that the vet didn’t catch this a week ago and put her through surgery on her molars as the problem!

Very sad.

[Sarita]

She sounds like a fighter! Has your vet done bloodwork? He would need to send off for an EC titer.

Sometimes vets have to go through a process of elimination to determine what is wrong with an animal. At this point I would not make a decision about putting her down if she has a will to live and she has a chance which at this point you don’t know since you still need some answers as to what is wrong with her.

[ShadowF]

They did bloodwork and everything was good, but not for E. Cunicula. They say it takes them 2 weeks to get those results, but it may be too late by then. She is not getting nearly enough fluids and not enough food. The vet is pretty sure it is what she has and she says the prognosis is not good. Has anyone had a positive experience with this disease ? Does it go away? Do they recover from the loss of control or use of legs?

Thanks for your help!

[rabbitsmba]

My bunny Fluffy tested positive for e. ciniculi when he developed head tilt.  E. cuniculi is NOT a fatal situation (well, it can be if not treated properly) but it is a serious one.  Most rabbits tested will test positive for ec but can go their entire lives without showing any symptoms.  But sometimes ec will show up in the form of head tilt, leg paralysis, etc.  Ec is a parasite that affects the brain and early treatment is critical for a full or partial recovery.

Yes, the ec test can take a few weeks to get back, but your vet should treat for it in the mean time.  Fluffy had head tilt and was prescribed baytril (for an ear infection) and panacur (for ec).  After a few weeks the panacur was switched to zithromax.  From first onset to complete recovery, it was 6 weeks.  Fluffy takes panacur for 30 days once a year as a preventative.  He will never be cured of ec but it can be controlled.

Here is some info to read up on…

http://www.ontariorabbits.org/health/healthinfo10.html

[Sarita]

I would also ask the vet to show you how to use sub-q fluids at home while she is recovering. This is not difficult to do.

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

{{ VIBES }} Just checking in! Keep us posted *HUGS*

[Nicci607]

OMGooosh!! sending tons of healing vibes your way!!

are you a member of bunspace.com??? [its FREE!!]

they have a group for EC/head tilt bunnies. you could also post in the general forums and post a blog to see if anyone has some advise here. this is very critical!!

please check it out:

http://www.bunspace.com

 

the link for the group:

http://www.bunspace.com/groups/group_index?gid=51

 

ask the moms of Trinket, Billy or Millie for advise. they are all group members. here is there profiles, tho:

 

Trinket:

http://www.bunspace.com/view_bunny?bunid=5086

 

Billy:

http://www.bunspace.com/view_bunny?bunid=4567

 

Millie:

http://www.bunspace.com/view_bunny?bunid=525

 

GOOD LUCK!!

[skunklionshow]

She does sound like a fighter!  It sounds like you need to get in touch w/ the other e-cun bun people.  I’m thinking that if she keeps fighting like this and she can continue on sub-cu fluids & hand feeding that it would be worth holding on for the titers to be complete.  Please keep us posted!  Lot’s of bunny luv & kisses to you and your girl!

[Scarlet_Rose]

There is hope as E. cuniculi can be treated.

Here is more information:

This lists many sources of info – http://homepage.mac.com/mattocks/morfz/rabrefs.html#ec

Previous answers from Dana Krempels –

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Rabbits-703/2008/8/Pasteurella-vs-E-cuniculi.htm

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Rabbits-703/2008/8/Head-tilt-help-standup.htm

Here is a previous discussion on Binky Bunny about it:

E. Cuniculi:

https://binkybunny.com/Default.aspx?tabid=54&forumid=2&postid=38158&view=topic

I hope that this information helps you.  I think the best thing is to give you resources you can read, print out and dicuss with your vet.

[BinkyBunny]

The vets shoud be treating her for it just in case. The treatment can help prevent further permanent damage. The meds should be given as soon as they suspect it’s E.C. Why they would wait for the test results when things are so critical I don’t know.

I had a bunny who suffered from ecuniculi symptoms – hind leg weakness, but ecuniculi is a nasty parasitic disease and it can attack other things, the brain, kidneys, etc. So that is why acting fast with treatment is important because if can be treated quicklyit can prevent more damage from being done.

Though there is no real cure right now, the treatment helps slow-down the progression and sometimes keeps the disease at bay forever. Panacur seems to have posiitve results, and Ponazuril is one of the latest drugs now being used. Many have claimed it to be the cure, but only time will tell.

In the meantime, press your vets to give you treatment while they wait for the results.(it worries me that they wouldn’t do this already!)   If they won’t comply, please check with another rabbit savvy vet for a second opinion. There are side-effects with long term use that’s why most of these drugs can’t be used more than 3 months at time, but I don’t see why it would be risky to use it for two weeks until they find out what the rest results are – especially when the risks are higher not to use it if he does have it and is suffering from life-threatening symptoms.

Please keep us updated!

[ShadowF]

We are going to another vet today, but it has been a week now. If I mix paste of food applesauce she eats a couple ounces or so of it, but doesn’t drink. She now scoots mostly and is kind of sticky. She can’t contol legs well enough to get in litter box any more and urine is scarce and dark. The vet suspected this as a possibility on day 2 or 3 but didn’t do anything. From what I read, if they had treated her then most of the damage could have been avoided and I think she is miserable.

poor bunny!

[rabbitsmba]

Oh poor baby! Have you tried feeding her critical care? You can mix that with pedialyte (instead of water) to keep her hydrated and mix in some babyfood with that too. You might have to keep giving her sub-q fluids if she is really dehydrated. Don’t give up on her – there are still things to do and avenues to explore to help her recover! Good luck at the vet today and please keep us posted!

[BinkyBunny]

There is no guarantee the the treatment will work for every bunny, but there would be no reason for the vet to hold off when it is so serious.

What did the new vet say?

[Lisa_43]

Sending big healing vibes from the land down under. Please keep us updated.

[ShadowF]

They agreed that that is probably what is wrong with her, gave us some horse dewormer medicine to give to her. I hope it works quickly as I do not think she has a lot of time left. She scoots and flops at best and is not really eating like she did a couple of days ago. I syringed the medicine and chloramphenicol in but she does not appear to be swallowing. I don’t know what to do and sometimes wish she would pass for her own sake. I will try the medicine for a few days if she lasts that long but I am sure she is dehydrated.

Sorry, I don’t mean to bring everyone else down. Is there a better forum to place this on for suggestion? All the replies we have received have been greatly appreciated!

[Beka27]

this forum is fine. i am so sorry for what you guys are going thru. it’s a natural part of life that pets will pass away, but you never want it to be under painful circumstances. if you and your vet feel it’s for the best, no one would fault you for giving her peace in a humane way.

i continue to have you in my thoughts.

[Deleted User]

don’t give up hope….stay strong.

when boston had head tilt the vet basically told us what we were doing was pointless and she wasn’t going to make it, but she did….just keep pulling through for her and whats meant to be will happen.

if you think she’s dehydrated, syringe in non flavored pedialyte, thats what we did and it worked great.

[skunklionshow]

When I had feeding probs, my vet recommended critical care mixed w/ ensure.  I think we used strawberry.  It’s non-dairy.  Did they give her more sub cue fluids?  Can you send Dana a post for more recommendations?  Did the vet find anything physically wrong w/ her swallowing?  Feel free to keep posting.  In the very least maybe we can be your emotional support during this difficult time.  Lots of healing vibes!

[bunnytowne]

OH God please make this bun make it thru this quickly.   Healing vibes and please keep us updated.  I know this has to be so hard for you to see your poor bun suffering.  You are doing all you can.   Did Dana get back to you hopefully with some tips.

Do you think pear juice from a can would encourage her to try and get it down? I used that in small amount to put the crushed  up  Baytril when we had Loopy.  It worked.   It covered the nasty flavor.  It may help her to get fluids in and her meds so she can get better.  Your bun knows you are trying to help.  They know.

[(dig)x(me)x(now)]

shadow12 – any update on your bunny??

[ShadowF]

She has never regained the ability to swallow. She puts her face in water or squash/critical care, but it doesn’t go down. I have tried syringing in water or food paste and it just starts to block her airway.

She now just lays on her side breathing rather deeply as she has since this started. I held pieces of apple and banana for her and some disappeared but I think it just is in her mouth. Liquid ran out of her mouth as she tried to eat it. I didn’t think she would make it through the night but she is still there in the exact same spot. I wish for her sake she would just go. We love her and the kids will miss her. The kids will not go near her as they don’t want to see her like this.

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

Shadow, maybe it’s time to think about euthanizing her, to end her pain. I know it’s a hard topic but if she’s not going to make it, maybe you can find the strength to help her to rainbow bridge? {{VIBES}}

[Beka27]

i think that might be the humane thing to do. i hope you can help her. be strong.

[(dig)x(me)x(now)]

Wow, she really is a fighter, huh? Poor thing.

[kralspace]

oh shadow, I’m so sorry to hear how much worse your bun has gotten, seems like it’s only her great heart keeping her going. I know it’s so hard, but she relies on you for help or relief, whichever you can give. Our bunny prayers go with you.

[skunklionshow]

If you feel that she is suffering, you may want to consider euthanizing her.  It’s a difficult decision, but you have done so much.  We support whatever decision you make.  We are here for you and your girl.  Best Wishes!

[Ang]

update please?

[ShadowF]

Unfortunatley, we had to put her down last night. The Veterinarian said she could try some neurological agents but didn’t feel that she would ever have quality of life again. She had gotten to the point where she just lay on her side unable to get up. I would hold her up and syringe food/water into her with only a small amount going in and most just back out on her and me. The most difficult part was that she was still trying, biting at the syringe and reaching for it each time. She never regained an ability to swallow and only took in what ran down as I held her. She was a real fighter and we will miss her greatly!

Thanks for all of your support, I am sorry it ended up this way.

[Beka27]

Binky Free sweet bunny!

hugs to you Shadow. it’s a hard decision to make, but you did the right thing. now she is happy and whole…

[osprey]

Binky Free, little bun. The decision to end her suffering was the right one. It is a very difficult decision to make, hugs to you too.

[wendyzski]

I’m so sorry for you loss. You did everything you could, and you were strong enough to let her go without pain.

[rabbitsmba]

I’m crying right now. Poor, poor bunny. Thank you for giving her every fighting chance and helping her cross the Rainbow Bridge.

[skunklionshow]

I am so sorry for your loss.  Shadow was comforted by the strength and love that you demonstrated continuously.  You are a true bunny slave and I’d be honored to have you as my bunny slave.  Again, I am so sorry for your loss…you did good

[Deleted User]

so sorry for your loss. she knew you loved her every time you held her and fought for her!

[Cassi&Charlie]

What a terrible thing to happen, and a terrible decision to have to make! You did the right thing for her and helped her to cross the rainbow bridge.

Binky free Shadow.

She’ll be waiting at the rainbow bridge for you.

[BinkyBunny]

That is just rough! I am just so sorry! How heartbreaking. She is at peace. Obviously she was very loved, and I am sure she knew that as you helped her to fight, and then helped her towards peace.

[jerseygirl]

My heartfelt condolences to you at this time

Binky Free Shadow. Look over your human family who loved you enough to let you go.

[JK]

I am so so sorry that you and your precious little bunny had to go through this.  This is the really awful part about owning animals.  I am glad she is at peace now and her suffering has ended.  Take care.

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

Oh I’m so sorry !! What a poor dear! *Binky free Shadow*

I think you might the right choice, no matter how hard to do. Thats nice you were with her when she had to go, that’s the best you can do for them. *HUGS*

[Scarlet_Rose]

I’m sorry for the loss and am glad you were able to have her euthanized and stop the suffering, it is not an easy choice to make. I have you and your family in my prayers with Shadow.

[ShadowF]

The vet assured me that it was the right decision, but it was still very difficult. She was too young to go and I can’t help but feel that if the first vet had given her the medicine while she was still mobile she may have pulled through it. It is a helpless feeling when your bunny wants to eat and you are willing to try to get food in her, but nothing really goes in. Her inability to swallow, which doesn’t sound all that common with E. Cinicula, was the roadblock to be able to really help her.

We were in touch with our local chapter of the House Rabbit Society throughout the ordeal (we adopted her from them 4+ years ago). They have been inundated with litters of bunnies from the humane society. To help them and to help our daughters get through this we are going to foster a litter of 5 until they can be neutred/spayed before they are adoptable. We may end up with a couple of those to add to the 6 year old lop we still have.

We want to thank each of you that had suggestions or offered moral support, it is greatly appreciated.

[Beka27]

i think fostering is a good idea. it will occupy your time and mind (esp with 5!), and if it proves to be too much too soon, you don’t have to keep any of them permanently…

i hope you will stick around on BinkyBunny. if (when) you want to, you can tell us some more about your lop and the new babies…

[jerseygirl]

What a fantastic, pro-active approach to help get you all through this time. Very admirable! Enjoy the little 5!

[RabbitPam]

I’m so sorry about Shadow. But she is no longer suffering and you did everything you could.
I know I replied a day or two ago, but my computer has been giving me trouble. Apologies, and hugs.

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

You did make the right choice!! It’s hard and it’s heartbreaking but it was the right choice. She was young but an unspayed un-looked after bun usually makes it three years….she had a good full life with you. *HUGS*

[osprey]

Congratulations on fostering a litter. Babies are a hoot, this should be perfect for softening the blow to your family of losing your bunny.

[MooBunnay]

Thats so exciting that you are fostering a litter! That is a great thing for you to do in Shadow’s memory – you will have so much fun with them!

[Author]

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