Should I Wait Until They’re Both Neutered?

[ALRyder]

I have a spoiled male rabbit I rescued off the road back in August (Detective Snicker), and he has settled in so well. He usually gets along with the cats and dog just fine and is generally fearless. I scheduled him for a neuter a few months back, but we still have to wait until mid-June for the veterinarian to get him in. I guess everyone is backed up for neuters and I’m just happy I got a boy, because they won’t spay rabbits at the clinic I could get a hold of (Yes, I called three different places and only got a call back from one. Very frustrating.) Anyway, I do think it’s definitely time he get fixed. I’ve noticed he hasn’t been as good about only going potty in his litter box and he even nipped my daughter the other day when she was trying to pull him out of his cage to clean it, which he’s never done. He also lunged and growled at one of my cats the other day, which is again uncharacteristic of him. I guess I should also ask if this is all signs of just needing to be fixed or could it be something else?

Anyway, now, for some reason I can’t quite figure out, when my daughter asked if we could buy one of the rabbits at the feed store recently, I just couldn’t say no. They have rabbits there all the time, but something about this little guy forced me to take him home. Anyway, I’m wondering if I should wait to really introduce them until after Snicker is fixed, or would it be OK to start now? And also, should I wait until our new baby bunny, Doodle, is fixed? This will probably be a long time from now, considering how far out they’re scheduled for getting your animals fixed, and his balls haven’t even dropped yet, so he’s not even of age yet.

I already know that boys can be more challenging to bond, but I figured with the fact that I have enough patience, and usually Snicker is good with the other animals in the house it would be OK?

I did already put Doodle in a travel cage and allowed Snicker in the room, just to see how he would respond. Snicker rubbed all over the cage and they gave each other little kisses through the bars. Then Snicker started running around the room doing binkys before returning to the cage. This is a good sign for future introductions, I hope?

[Wick & Fable]

I would keep them separated, as it sounds like Detective Snicker is displaying some classic territorial aggression, thus he way be aggressive and violent with the new rabbit if given a bit more time in his territory. That initial interaction is positive, but hormonal rabbits can be very dynamic and fluctuate with their interactions. There is also the chance that your new rabbit is a female (mis-sexing rabbits is not unusual, even for very experienced individuals), so you would not want an accidental pregnancy to occur either! In addition, the new rabbit will eventually go through puberty as well, so whatever hormonal changes may occur there will also impact how they respond to each other. Separation is the “better safe than sorry” approach.

Re: Detective Snicker’s behaviors specifically, if he is eating and pooping well, I would not be worried about it being a non-puberty related issue. That being said, there are things you and your daughter can do to not upset a territorial rabbit. For example, ” he even nipped my daughter the other day when she was trying to pull him out of his cage to clean it” … for a rabbit that now is leaning full into territorial instincts, it sounds very normal that he would nip your daughter, who was trying to get him out of his space so she could go in it. In the future, perhaps lure him out with food or another distractor so it does not seem like such an invasive interaction.

The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.

[ALRyder]

Thank you for this advice, and I’m happy it sounds like normal hormonal behavior. So, just to clarify, you’re saying I should wait until both are fixed? I just wish I wasn’t going to have to wait so many months, but I get it if it’s needed.

Honestly, Doodle could definitely be a girl. I haven’t even checked to know for sure. Doodle was just in the “Boy Bunny” cage at the feed store, so until deciding to fully introduce the two, I figured it wasn’t a big deal what sex our new baby is yet. If Doodle turns out to be a girl, and it’s impossible to find a place around here that spays rabbits, if Snicker is fixed will it be an issue if Doodle isn’t?

Also, Doodle is tiny (He fits in your hand) while Snicker is not (The latter is about the size of a medium cat). The feed store didn’t know what breed Doodle was, but I’m thinking he’s some sort of dwarf because he is so tiny and he’s got way shorter ears than Snicker ever had. Also, his facial and body structure just looks like a Netherland Dwarf to me. In other words, I think Doodle will stay quite a bit smaller than Snicker. Will size be an issue with bonding? Or will I just need to be extra careful when the time comes so that Snicker doesn’t hurt his new buddy?

As far as getting Snicker out of his cage, he won’t hop out with the lure of treats. We’ve tried. The cage is a little off the ground, so I thought maybe that was part of the issue, but he’s perfectly fine with hopping up and off of furniture. Once he’s out of his cage he loves to run, and will come to us for treats. I’ve even tried leaving his cage door open for long periods of time in an attempt to get him to hop out on his own and that’s been a no-go as well. He will however hop back into his cage with a little lure from me. (I know all of this last bit gets me into behavior, just let me know if I need to switch over to that forum thread for these questions)

And sorry for all of the questions, I’ve never bonded rabbits before and just want to get it right.

[Wick & Fable]

So, just to clarify, you’re saying I should wait until both are fixed? Yes!

If Doodle turns out to be a girl, and it’s impossible to find a place around here that spays rabbits, if Snicker is fixed will it be an issue if Doodle isn’t? Most likely yes — both rabbits need to be fixed in order to safely and reliably create a secure bond together. I would recommend following up with places, as well if seeing if there’s an exotic vet somewhere maybe even a bit further to spay. You can try and contact rescues around you to see where they may get rabbits spayed/neutered. Also, as a note, I would be a bit wary of getting a rabbit neutered at a practice that doesn’t spay rabbits… both are fairly routine procedures, so if they feel spays are too risky or something, I would wonder about their expertise in general.

Will size be an issue with bonding? No, rabbits of different sizes can bond. My Netherland dwarf is three times smaller than his buddy.

Leaving the Cage – If his cage is his safe space and home base, it is not unusual that he doesn’t leave it, especially during day time hours when rabbits are actually sleeping. He wants to chill in his space? That makes sense! It could be good to try and get him to establish a secondary base outside his own. Try making a secondary area or space for him, where he can feel safe so he can transfer from one to another.

The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.

[ALRyder]

Thank you, I’ll try checking in with other vets. Though, the other two places I tried didn’t even find the time to call me back, though I left messages during business hours and tried calling more than once. General business practice around here is terrible like that, this isn’t the first business I’ve had similar issues with (I had to call over five salons before one got back to me, but that’s beside the point.) One of the vets I called is about half an hour away. The next closest would probably be at least an hour and a half, which is feasible, just a little frustrating that we don’t have someone more local. Would the trip back be terribly stressful after the bunny is fixed?

There are no shelters even moderately close that take in rabbits. So, no help there either.

[Hazel]

Agree with everything Wick said. It’s unfortunate that you’re having such a hard time finding a vet. The fact that they aren’t comfortable doing a spay would be a red flag, as Wick pointed out.

You should definitely get both rabbits fixed before bonding, even if it means taking a road trip. If Doodles turns out to be a girl it will be twice as important to get her fixed, the cancer rate for unspayed does is above 85% by age 3-4.

I don’t know how old your daughter is, but it isn’t recommended to allow kids to pick up a rabbit. It can be tricky to pick up and hold one safely even for adults, dropping them or having them struggle in your arms can lead to broken bones and other nasty injuries. Many rabbits can act territorial about their cage, fixed or not. I know if I reached into my buns cage and tried to pull him out I would get boxed and bitten. Ideally you should find a way to get him to go in and out on his own, but if that’s not possible it would be best if you got him out rather than your daughter, otherwise she will likely receive a nasty bite at some point.

[DanaNM]

Agree with what’s been said so far. 🙂

Can you describe their housing set-ups a bit more? That will give me a better picture of how to encourage more exploring, and also suggest some ways to reduce cage aggression. In general it’s best to do all cleaning when the bunny is not in the cage, especially if the cage is actually a cage (vs. a large pen), and when the bun is just learning to trust you. Hormones do factor in, but are not the only cause (so neutering will not necessarily be a magic solution).

A lot of people will use a cage as a home base, but then have it open all the time attached to an x-pen so the bun has more space (kind of like a front yard), as cages are almost always too small for a bun to be in more than a few hours a day. You can add a ramp or a step to make it easier for the bun to hop down into the play area. Adding some hides or tunnels will also help encourage him to come out.

In general babies get along with other bunnies, but once puberty hits problems arise. Especially with both unaltered I would keep them separated for now.

Regarding the possible spay issue and having to drive to find a vet, you might ask them if they would be able to keep the bun overnight (or at least until it starts eating again) before you pick them up, or just get their thoughts on driving after spaying.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[ALRyder]

He’s always been fine in the past when we’ve pulled him out of the cage, that’s why I figured it was hormones. As of right now it was just a warning nip, but I’ve been grabbing him out since. He’s usually just happy to be pet, held, and loved on regardless of where he’s at. He’ll lots of times jump into our laps when he’s free to roam.

The cage itself is 4 stories. If I had to estimate, it’s probably about 5′ tall, 4′ wide, and 3′ deep. His litter box is on the bottom floor and takes up about a quarter of the floor space. We always take him out of the cage when cleaning it.

I ended up finding another vet to fix him next month. This one is a half an hour drive. They seemed a little more experienced, and at the very least know not to fast a rabbit before fixing and told me to make sure he had food to get the digestive system working afterward.

I posted on Facebook in our town’s classifieds to ask for suggestions on vets for fixing rabbits. When I mentioned the fact that the one vet doesn’t spay, a few people said it’s because of how likely females are to die under anesthesia. I did a bunch of research online myself and found that it doesn’t seem as dangerous as that vet has told others in town. Yes, rabbits are more fragile than cats and dogs, but a lot of progress has been made to make it much less dangerous than it used to be. In your opinion, does it seem like the vet just doesn’t have experience and that’s why they’re uncomfortable? (This is the vet I’m already not going to anymore. I’m just curious what others think.)

[Wick & Fable]

In my opinion, if there is observed, significant difference in the survival rate of males compared to females under anesthesia at a practice, something is wrong— it could be the vet’s knowledge, the vet techs, the equipment… who knows, because I feel that is not a disparity you’ll find at the vast majority of experienced exotic vet practices.  There is nothing about having ovaries vs. testes that would impact coping with anesthesia.

The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.

[ALRyder]

I think it’s because they’re under anesthesia longer when they’re spayed. It makes me wonder if it has to do with the anesthesia they use. Which wouldn’t be good for any rabbit if that’s the case.

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