Should I get a second rabbit?

[beaumont]

Hey all,

I have had my lop for about 2 months now and things have been going really well. He is pretty happy in his new surroundings and is affectionate and loving. I live in a studio apartment–when I am at work/sleeping, I keep his cage open to a penned off area of the room (about 4 feet long and 1.5 feet wide,) but when I am home and awake he can run free around the apartment (it is not massive, but enough room to run and play in.) However, sometimes I feel a bit bad that I can’t socialize with him all day and I have been considering getting him a friend. He is a tiny little fella (dwarf Holland lop,) and the friend I would get him would be a similar size, if not a bit smaller. However, space wise, is this okay? I would get a two-story cage/hutch for them to ensure there is enough living space for both. Everything else would probably stay the same. 

Is this a good idea? I already have most of the resources to care for the second one (brushes, clippers, food, extra littlerboxes, the whole shebang,) and I already have people to care for them when I am gone. Will my guy become more detached from me if I get him a friend? Will he become more aggressive? Will he overall be happier? More territorial? I’ve taken him back to the rabbitry I got him from before and he seemed to get along with the other rabbits just fine. Any and all advice is welcome!

[Deleted User]

I he neutered? That is the primary consideration before you get a second rabbit. Both must be altered. They say that male/female pairings are the easiest, but it can be done with male/male.

You will need to keep them in separate living areas until they are bonded. Unbonded rabbits will fight each other, and they can fight to the death so it is very important that they are not together until they are bonded. For bonding, you will need neutral territory and separate living quarters initially.

Single buns can be happy if given enough attention and stimulation from their human. In regards to your questions, bonded pairs will spend most of their time with each other, but I wouldn’t necessarily say he would become detached.

P.S. he is super cute!!!!!!

[beaumont]

Hey BunNoob, 

He is scheduled to be altered within the next few weeks. If he is neutered and the female is not spayed (would probably be 8 weeks old, would spay her ASAP,) would it be problematic? I would keep them separated until they are confident around each other. I am certainly sure my rabbit will be fine if he does continue living alone, I just love rabbits and think it could be nice to have another one. The breeder I get them from raises them all in close proximity, and there hasn’t been a single rabbit I met there who was vicious to other rabbits. I took Beaumont to the breeder the other day and he seemed more than fine around other rabbits. As far as the whole detachment thing goes, that sounds about right. He is pretty sweet and likes to spend time near me, but also values his alone time as well. Because of this, I think that a slight bit of distraction wouldn’t fully pull him away from me. Does that sound about right? Once they are confident around each other, do they each need their own separated cage? 

And yes, he is absolutely adorable. Truthfully, I think a second rabbit would also be good for him to get a break from me! When I am near him, I love to cuddle with him and be like a grandma with a young child. With a second rabbit in the picture, not only will he alone deal less with my shenanigans, but will also get a social partner who isn’t so volatile and obsessive  

Again, I think he will be fine without a friend, but will also get along nicely with one. I am more concerned about the indirect ramifications of it, like space issues, behavioral changes, that kinda stuff. I trust my breeder immensely and would make sure they are a good fit! 

[Deleted User]

Well, bunnies won’t typically attack each other before reaching sexual maturity, which is around 3 months for some. So bunnies before 8 weeks probably would not exhibit any aggression, but as they get older hormones become a factor and that will spark those aggressive behaviors.

Do you know much about the bonding process? It’s usually meetings done in small sessions of 10-15 minutes (time increases as they build trust and can be together) but even two altered buns can fight when they meet each other. The issue is with territory. When you bring him to the breeder, nothing there is “his” so I wouldn’t expect aggression in an unfamiliar territory. But in his own living space? I imagine you will see some aggression then. Although it is easier to bring a female home to a male, as females are more territorial. I have a female and a male, they are kept in separate rooms (he’s only 10 weeks) and once my female got in the room and they got in a fight. As I said, it’s a matter of territory when they are aggressive, not necessarily that they have an aggressive attitude.

If you get her at 8 weeks, make sure you check with a vet, as some vets prefer to wait until at least 6 months to perform a spay. This is because it is a much more invasive procedure than a neuter, so it helps to wait until at least 6 months so bunny has had some time to grow into a healthy bun and can have a quick recovery. Are you prepared to keep them separate for at least 5 months? (4 months until the spay and 1 additional month until her hormones dissipate?)

I don’t mean to discourage you at all, I think two buns are great! But, I also don’t want you to not realize what you are signing yourself up for. I got my mini lop buck at 8 weeks and to be honest, it’s been a bit of a pain keeping them separate and having to wait until he is neutered. On the other hand, I’ve got all this time to form a bond with him, so that when we do bun to bun bonding, they can both be comfortable because they are familiar with me. It can go either way, you just have to weigh the benefit vs inconvenience for your own situation!

[beaumont]

Currently, my bunny is mostly free-roaming. If I would get a second rabbit. I would probably keep her in a pen in the room my male rabbit has. Space wise, this seems pretty fine, as I already have the X-Pen set up next to his cage, and he is fast approaching the point where he won’t even need it to exercise. Both are dwarf lops and the pen goes up to about 10 square feet, so that should be plenty for her to get a bit of exercise if she can’t be let out into the room. Thankfully, my breeder also arranges the neutering and spaying for the bunnies I get, so she could advise me towards a rabbit that can be spayed sooner rather than later. Most of the rabbits she has bred were neutered at 4-5 months and were completely fine. I am still not quite sure why it would take 5+ months if the male is neutered; I understand that hormones do factor into certain behavior patterns in the doe, but if they are mostly comfortable with each other after X amount of time, I am not sure I understand why to keep them separated, at least when I am there to supervise (especially since the male will likely be larger/older than the female.) I definitely plan on not forcing the process and taking the bonding intervals as slowly as they need, but I have also heard from most people that their bunnies were comfortable with each other within a month or so, even with an unaltered female. Regardless, if it is a catastrophic pairing and it really does take up to 5 months separate, I think giving one bunny the room and the other a pen should be okay.

[tobyluv]

You should not put any rabbits together unless both have been spayed or neutered. At 8 weeks old, the female would not be dealing with her hormones yet, but that would be happening in a few short weeks, so it wouldn’t be very good to put them together for just 3 weeks or so, then separate them, which you would have to do. It wouldn’t matter if you were there to supervise them. Aggression and fighting can happen in an instant when you are dealing with hormones, even if one of the pair has been neutered.

After you get your male neutered, you should wait about a month before attempting any bonding. But if you’re getting a very young female rabbit, 8 weeks old, you will have a longer wait before starting bonding, since she will have to be old enough to be spayed, then have a few weeks recovery time before going through the bonding steps.

[beaumont]

Okay, maybe I will go for a pre-neutered female then! Is that problematic? Will they be harder to bond in that case?

[Deleted User]

Ok, I am trying to be helpful here. And I was trying to be nice. If you won’t understand that they absolutely cannot be together, then you will be dealing with a fight, or worse- an injured bunny. To be frank, it doesn’t matter what you have heard, I am giving you the facts that it is simply unsafe and unacceptable to put them together. If she is not spayed, she will be aggressive and you will have fighting rabbits. You have to bond them properly, and it takes a lot more effort than just putting them near each other until they are comfortable. Look in the bonding thread on here and you will see countless examples of rabbits breaking out into terrible fights after supposedly being “bonded”. If you aren’t going to do this right, don’t get another rabbit.

If she is already spayed when you get her, and it should be at least ONE MONTH SINCE SPAY, then you can let her settle in and then start with pre-bonding, such as switching out litter trays and blankets/stuffed animals.You need to wait at least one month after the spay to safe. It doesn’t matter if he is sterile, the issue is not with pregnancy- she can’t get pregnant with no ovaries or uterus. The issue is that her body needs time to dissipate those hormone levels remaining in her system after the spay. Being altered will not make the bonding harder, it should actually make it easier because neither bun is raging with hormones.

I’m sure that people have had safe spays at 4 or 5 months. For me personally, I waited until 6 months. Her life is too valuable to me, and if the vet thinks it is best to wait until 6 months, that is what I’ve done.

[beaumont]

Relax–I don’t come here to challenge ANYBODY’s beliefs, nor to undermine anybody’s thoughts. I simply am coming here to gain a broader knowledge on the topic. It isn’t even something I was planning on doing in the immediate future, especially without extensive consultation. In the very last response I posted, I stated I would inquire about obtaining a pre-neutered female. I’ve done tons of research on bonding, and I wouldn’t even have posted this thread if I didn’t understand the basics of bonding. People’s opinions differ greatly on the topic. In the past, what many claimed was a non-issue was a big problem for my rabbit (i.e. digging), and what some claimed would be a huge issue turned out to be inconsequential (i.e. picking up and cuddling.) My point is, I don’t want my opinion to reside on one voice. This both pertains to a vet telling me it shouldn’t be a problem to introduce an unaltered female, as well as your posts urging me otherwise. I apologize if my curiosity and desire to know more about the topic came off as hostile or indicated a  lack of understanding about bonding, but there is really no need to get so defensive on the topic, though I do sincerely appreciate your willingness to share knowledge as well as your concern for my rabbit.

Again, will there be issues with introducing an older, already altered female after the male has been neutered and waited about a month? Will it be later than an ideal bonding period? Will attempting to bond an older bunny result in a delayed adaption to a new environment? 

[Rookie]

I have to agree with BunNoob here…if you are already thinking of short cuts then this may not be the right decision for you to get another bun. Bonding is a super long and tedious process, not to mention stressful for buns and you, and it takes your full patience and commitment. If this is the road you want to go down on be prepared to handle the consequences and make decisions on your own and without expecting your breeder to tell you what’s best. Breeders have experience with the buns in general but only you know your bun and his/her behaviour. Also some things that are a package deal with 2 buns and you should consider: double the vet bills, the very possibility that the buns you get may never actually be bondable and then you are stuck with having to keep 2 buns apart in one apartment. There are people on here that have buns in two different parts of the house cause despite their best bonding efforts they are just simply not compatible.

getting another bun is a big decision and don’t rush it. Listen to the people on here as they have seen and know a lot and they will help you as much as they can but to listen it is up to you.

[Rookie]

an older altered female would need time to get used to her new environment as well you which will take a month at the absolute very least. Then you boy will need to get used to his new hormone levels too which too can take a bit of time. So you will be looking at a few months with them having to be separated completely before even starting the bonding process then a few months with the slow bonding process of switching items, gradual short interactions, supervised play times etc. … so I would say you are looking at at least 5 or 6 months before they are bonded IF they even can be bonded even with an already spayed female.

[beaumont]

I am not sure why people are assuming I am looking for short cuts. The only reason I was interested in a pre-neutered female was that many sources claimed that rabbits bond better when done at a young age. I wouldn’t be asking if I was committed to shortcuts, I just want what is best for my rabbit. I am 100% okay with getting either a spayed female or raising them separately until she is spayed. I simply am focusing on potential options, efficiency of bonding, and the welfare of the rabbits. If simply asking the question and attempting to learn more, rather than taking a single stranger’s claim at face value, indicates a lack of qualifications for a completely unrelated task, then I am not sure this is the right place to even inquire about such questions…

For the last time, people, I am HAPPY TO AVOID DOING THIS. I am in no way married to a specific strategy of introducing a rabbit. I have the resources and time to focus on my rabbit’s happiness, which is why I started this thread to begin with. 

[Deleted User]

This is absolutely the right place. Many members on here are very knowledgeable.

I am a bit of a hot head, I always have been, always will be. The thing about me, I will try to be as helpful and nurturing as I can, BUT if it seems like someone is just finding excuses or shortcuts around what I am trying to convey, I lose my patience very quickly.

We are assuming that you ‘re looking for shortcuts because of things you’ve said, such as:

“I am still not quite sure why it would take 5+ months if the male is neutered; I understand that hormones do factor into certain behavior patterns in the doe, but if they are mostly comfortable with each other after X amount of time, I am not sure I understand why to keep them separated, at least when I am there to supervise”

“but I have also heard from most people that their bunnies were comfortable with each other within a month or so, even with an unaltered female”

First, I see a fundamental issue in your reasoning of the first quote. Perhaps you were just asking a question by stating “I don’t understand why they need to be separated if comfortable with each other”, but to me it seemed like you were making an excuse. The fact of the matter is that unless BOTH rabbits are altered and have had at least 1 month, they absolutely will not be “comfortable” with one another. Even if it SEEMS like they are, it is only a matter of time before a simple mounting or nip escalates to fur flying out around the room.

Second, don’t get me wrong, I have also heard of “love at first sight” and easy bondings, BUT those cases are extremely rare and should not even be considered as a possibility. If it happens, great. But, as the old saying goes, prepare for the worst and hope for the best. That is all you can do when introducing a new rabbit. You never know how it is going to go, and as tobyluv said, fights can break out spontaneously and can escalate very quickly.

Third, whatever vet told you that it was ok to bond an unaltered female….that is absolutely wrong. So many hormones and territorial instincts exist in unaltered buns that some have even gone as far to say that there is no true bond in an unaltered bun. Even litter mates will fight when they reach sexual maturity. As I stated, fighting is not about a rabbit with an “aggressive personality”; it is about feeling threatened by the presence of another until they learn that this rabbit can be trusted. Your bunny has been ripped away from any social interaction with it’s kind, so you have to consider the effect that will have on him when introducing a stranger to his home. He will feel that his territory, food, and life is being threatened by this invader. And THAT is why rabbits fight.

I am by no means trying to run anyone off from this forum, but as I stated earlier, I lose patience very quickly when someone asking for advice seems to be making “exceptions” or “excuses” or taking shortcuts based on what they may have read or heard. I am glad to help and I only want what is absolutely best for your rabbit. I am sure you do too. And I just think that the way it was coming off made me feel like your rabbit might be put in danger if your methodology was based on allowing them to be together before her spay.

[Rookie]

in that case it really doesn’t matter which option you choose. Either way you will have a wait period as you will either wait for a baby to spay ready or an older rabbit to get used to their environment. Either way you will have a pretty bid idle period. Do remember that rabbits are considered “young” past a year old even so even getting a bun that is past 6 months old is still a baby despite being spay and neuter ready…

[Theo&Mickey]

Hey beaumont! Your boy looks so cute in the avatar – I love the markings and color

Okay, so you want a bun to bond with him, and here is my advice. Try your best to find an already spayed female.. it will make things sooo much simpler for you. Once your boy gets neutered, wait around 4 – 6 weeks and adopt an already altered male or female of your liking. Some shelters in the US offer “bunny speed dating” which can help find a suitable mate for your guy. If you’re intent on buying from the breeder, yes, I’d say look for a female that’s already been spayed or 6 months old so easy to spay right away. Otherwise, the process is pretty drawn out if you get a baby bunny… my two cents

I currently have a 12 week old who I’m waiting to neuter (not 100% if he’s male of female yet, embarrassingly.. haha)
In hindsight, I think I should’ve waited for a shelter bunny who was already quarantined, health checked, neutered/spayed and ready to adopt. But being impatient as I am, and the fact that the ONLY shelter in the country I live in rarely get bunnies, and ones who are healthy (the ones surrendered who have ANY health problems, i.e. ringworm, scabies, are promptly euthanized – it is a kill shelter), led me to buying a baby.

A month after your male is neutered and you get a spayed/neutered bun, it should be fairly straightforward to begin the bonding process (once bunny is settled in of course)
Good luck

[sarahthegemini]

Posted By beaumont on 8/01/2017 1:25 PM

Hey all,

I have had my lop for about 2 months now and things have been going really well. He is pretty happy in his new surroundings and is affectionate and loving. I live in a studio apartment–when I am at work/sleeping, I keep his cage open to a penned off area of the room (about 4 feet long and 1.5 feet wide,) but when I am home and awake he can run free around the apartment (it is not massive, but enough room to run and play in.) However, sometimes I feel a bit bad that I can’t socialize with him all day and I have been considering getting him a friend. He is a tiny little fella (dwarf Holland lop,) and the friend I would get him would be a similar size, if not a bit smaller. However, space wise, is this okay? I would get a two-story cage/hutch for them to ensure there is enough living space for both. Everything else would probably stay the same. 

Is this a good idea? I already have most of the resources to care for the second one (brushes, clippers, food, extra littlerboxes, the whole shebang,) and I already have people to care for them when I am gone. Will my guy become more detached from me if I get him a friend? Will he become more aggressive? Will he overall be happier? More territorial? I’ve taken him back to the rabbitry I got him from before and he seemed to get along with the other rabbits just fine. Any and all advice is welcome!

As long as you have the resources to care for two single bunnies – why not! This is because they will need to obviously be kept separate for a while and of course there is the (rare) possibility that they won’t bond and will need permanentseperation. 

I don’t believe he will become more detached from you if he has a bun companion, but he will likely spend most of his time with his bun pal. However you interpret that is up to you. I believe all rabbits are happier with a buddy, they are not solitary animals and as much as we try, a human simply does not compare to the companionship of their own kind.

[Deleted User]

The only advice I can give is to listen to the opinions of people on here rather than your breeder. These are the people who are living these scenarios day to day. Whereas your breeder isn’t. I don’t doubt that your breeder has knowledge about rabbits but it will probably be in a completely different sense. For example, they probably have no experience of having rabbits in bonded pairs, the adult males and females that she breeds from probably spend very limited time together and purely just to mate then separated shortly after and she probably tolerates any aggression she sees as the process of the mating. And bunnies likely leave as babies before hormones have kicked in which will mean she likely hasn’t witnessed any litter mates fighting. To be honest they are probably more likely to tell you that rabbits are okay being put together as litter mates without spaying and neutering because it increases the sale of her rabbits.

After my own very negative and devastating experience of having two males I really wish pet shops and breeders would stop selling baby rabbits. It’s not a very nice situation to deal with two rabbits fighting. Fighting started after my boys were neutered and this was down to me thinking that only rabbits who had never been introduced before needed to be properly bonded. Therefore they were not fully bonded. This was very naive on my part but also by advice given from the store and a vet. I was under the impression that as they were together in the store nothing further was needed, other than neutering them, which I did. So the part where you say they may tolerate each other for an amount of time is very true but it is a ticking time bomb. Until all are spayed and neutered you just won’t know the outcome.

My situation resulted in me rehoming one of my males and I have adopted a female who was about 3 month when I got her. She is living separately next to my boy and they have not met other than seeing each other through bars and about 8 inches gap. For me it’s not worth any type of introduction until after she is spayed and 6 weeks after her hormones have died down. I 100% trust everyone’s opinion on here regardless of how someone says it.

[Dface]

Sticking my head above the parapet here to say that an unaltered female can kinda be bonded to a fixed male-probably not the best idea but it can be done.
There’s a good few threads in the bonding section of unconventional bondinf, but it’s generally an awful lot harder.

I bonded an unaltered female to an altered male, but I got her fixed due to cancer risk in the end.
Females with their hormones can get aggressive towards males (they want a baby and the male isn’t complying…)
Also after neuter there is a spike in hormones that can spark fights. Mine were fine it turns out, but this isn’t always the case.

Can it be done? Sure.
Should it be done? Probably not.

[joea64]

The above discussion provides some very good reasons why I’ve chosen to adopt an already-bonded, previously spayed/neutered pair that I know, based on having met them in person and on the advice and reports of the people who’ve been caring for and fostering them, get along fine with each other. It just saves so much hassle and time, even if I had the available time and space to work on a bonding myself. In fact I’d go so far as to say that any new bunny owner who wants a pair of buns should just adopt them already altered and bonded by people who know how to do it.

[Deleted User]

I never planned on getting a second rabbit.

I got my female and while I had done a ton of research and I’ve provided her a very comfortable life, she is alone all day while I am at work.

The guilt started to get to me, that’s why I chose to get a second rabbit. Not everyone knows how much their fluff will pull on their heart strings and make you do crazy stuff- like trying to bond!

[joea64]

Posted By BunNoob<3 on 8/03/2017 7:19 AM

I never planned on getting a second rabbit.

I got my female and while I had done a ton of research and I’ve provided her a very comfortable life, she is alone all day while I am at work.

The guilt started to get to me, that’s why I chose to get a second rabbit. Not everyone knows how much their fluff will pull on their heart strings and make you do crazy stuff- like trying to bond!

Ironically perhaps, that’s probably exactly the main reason (questions of bonding and neutering/spaying aside) why I’ve planned on a bonded pair from pretty much the beginning. My work schedule keeps me away from home most of the daylight hours and I just couldn’t abide the thought of my bun sitting there all alone half the day.

[beaumont]

Thank you all so much for the fantastic advice and helping me understand the situation better.

I completely understand that bonding an unspayed female can be dangerous with another bunny. However, what about two neutered male bunnies? How does that normally go over?

[beaumont]

Thank you all so much for the fantastic advice and helping me understand the situation better.

I completely understand that bonding an unspayed female can be dangerous with another bunny. However, what about two neutered male bunnies? How does that normally go over?

[Theo&Mickey]

Two neutered males can bond. It all depends on how they gel together personality-wise. I’m planning to start bonding my two males (one is already neutered) once I get my 3 month old bun neutered.

As far as I know, the gist of it is, if they’re both spayed and/or neutered and given time to heal and recover for a month or more, you can try bonding male/male, female/female, or male/female. It really doesn’t matter! Although, I’ve read it may be harder to bond two spayed females. Most of the process will rest on their personalities and how well they “click”.

[Author]

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