Should continue dating? mixed signals

[linatet]

Hi everyone!

My two rabbits are in different cages now next to each other. I’ve had them for a week and trying to bond. 

When they are separated they show good signs like lying and eating next to each other. However, together it’s a different story and they show both very positive and very negative signs. I’ve been meeting them everyday for 10-50 minutes with mixed results. When I put them together, Zeus grooms Ziggy and then they both stay with their heads down. Sometimes they chase afterwards and I intervene and separate. I guess they are trying to establish hierarchy but Ziggy won’t groom Zeus back and they are both stubbornly asking to be groomed.

Today they had a full blown fight and it happened really quickly. Their fight was a little circle biting each other and it was really difficult to separate. Now I don’t know what to do.  

I’ve read different and contrasting tips on the internet, naturally because people have varying experiences. I am trying to decide now, should I try another quick date tomorrow? Or should I leave them separated for a couple of weeks? Or should I try stress bonding or something else? They have been trying to groom through the wire which seems like a positive sign, but I am afraid they will fight when together. On the one hand rabbits hold grudges so maybe I should wait before another date. On the other maybe they have to interact and decide on the hierarchy. Thoughts?

[DanaNM]

Hi there, welcome

I don’t think you should give up! 1 week is a very short time. I do have some questions that will help me advise.

Was either bun injured in the fight? I mean, was blood drawn? Or just fur pulled? Bunny fights are certainly very terrifying, especially when you haven’t seen one and you don’t expect them, but often they look much worse than they actually are. If no bun was injured, then you can keep going. If blood was drawn, then it would be good to take a break for a few weeks and let the buns cool off a bit before proceeding.

Second, can you describe your bonding space?

It sounds like there are some positives here (grooming is good), but you seem to be moving too fast. It can help to let the new bun settle in for longer, and also to do pre-bonding (where you swap which bun is in which cage). Basically you will want to swap cages every day or so, until it seems like the buns aren’t really reacting to the other bun being in “their” territory (they aren’t just marking all over the place). You will also start to see their behaviors sync up (they will eat at the same time, sleep at the same time, groom at the same time, etc.).

Since this scuffle happened, I think going back to pre-bonding would be a good next step. Once they seem calm around each other in that sense, you can start up sessions again.

You are right that they do need to decide their hierarchy, but it is really important not to let them fight. When you start sessions again, when they get into a nose to nose grooming stand-off, start petting them both and swap scents. Pet them A LOT. This will help them stay calm, and will help start to break any negative associations that formed from the fight. They will eventually need to sort out their dominance, but a big part of bonding is trust. They attack out of fear, so if they can learn not to fear the other rabbit, they will be able to communicate without it escalating to a fight.

Stressing is also a great tool, so I think stressing in conjunction with the petting technique is a good combo (it’s worked well for me in tough bonds).

I’ll also add that if you are doing sessions in a small space, try a larger one. I’ve found disagreements lead to circling and fighting in small spaces, as they have no where to go to escape if they want to.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[linatet]

Thank you for the help!

No, there was no blood and they don’t seem injured! I’ m not really sure what happened when they were fighting because it was so fast, but doesn’t seem like they injured each other. Fur seems fine too.

Yes, I have been swapping cages In the beginning they were marking the limits of the territory with poop, now they don’t do this anymore. Their behavior also seem to be syncing. 

About the bonding space, I am attaching a picture. They are living in cages side by side. When they are like this they don’t show any aggression towards each other and sometimes reach out through the wire. Only yesterday after the fight they were thumping. 

“When you start sessions again, when they get into a nose to nose grooming stand-off, start petting them both and swap scents. Pet them A LOT.” I was doing this before, and giving them treats together. Since everything seemed okay I decided to let them with each other for a little bit and that’s when they fought. 

“a big part of bonding is trust. They attack out of fear, so if they can learn not to fear the other rabbit, they will be able to communicate without it escalating to a fight.” Good to know! I am a bit upset with the fighting because at the rescue they did “speed dating” and said they were bonded. They didn’t make a good job in explaining how the bonding process actually is like and what to expect. I feel like they “sold me a different product”. I could have chosen an already bonded pair instead. Just went through a very stressful and unsuccessful attempt at bonding gerbils after one of mine died and did not want to go through this again. (interesting how different species have surprisingly similar behavior, by the way!)

[DanaNM]

OK this is helpful!

So, first thing, be sure that they cannot actually touch each other through the bars. Nipping through the bars can promote bad feelings towards each other. Hard to tell from the picture, but usually a space of about 4-6 inches between the fences is enough.

It does sound like a fight, but nothing that would warrant a full break being needed. I’m surprised the rescue would say they were bonded after just speed dating? Maybe there was a miscommunication, because if they explained the bonding process that would seem like they expected you to do more work with them at home. Did you just adopt both of these bunnies, or was one already yours?

Where are you actually doing the bonding sessions? It should be in an area that is completely separate from where they are living, and as neutral as possible (neither bunny has been there, and preferably they can’t smell their home areas). This is probably the most important part of all of it!

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[linatet]

There is a little space between the cages, like 2 inches. But they actually don’t try to nip each other.

I just adopted these two bunnies together. I should probably buy another cage to have neutral territory then! Haven’t tried another meeting since the incident last weekend. Still afraid. It seems like they are amicable to each other and have been doing things together (grooming, eating and laying). But maybe I should wait for the new cage to try another date.

[DanaNM]

Ah yes, definitely do not date them in their cages. Neutral space is one of the most important elements for establishing a bond. I always imagine how I would feel if a stranger showed in my home and was like “I live here now!”… I would prob not be stoked on it!

You should try to increase the space between the cages to about 4 – 6 inches… sometimes they can be peaceful for days, then you come home to nipped noses and fur pulled through the bars.

Cages in general are not great for dating, as it is hard to get your hands on them when you need to.

Is there an area of your home (such as the bathroom?) where neither rabbit has been? I have always found larger areas to work better, as it gives them space to get away from each other if they want to (“fight or flight”… flight is better than fight!). You can set up another pen in a room they don’t go, or just use the whole room.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[DanaNM]

I will also add, doing some extra pre-bonding cage swaps would be a good idea, but I think in this case the lack of neutral space is probably the biggest issue.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

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