Serious nail trimming problems, traumatised rabbit

[Autumn's Dad]

Hello all,

I know this has been done to death (nail trimming) but even after looking at all the threads, videos, pictures I could find and many failed attempts I still cannot trim her nails completely. I believe she is now traumatized by the process and flinches even with the press press clip technique done with a flashlight far away from her quicks, making it damn near impossible to trim her nails. I’ve tried placing her high up in an unfamiliar setting (still active), the burrito (hyperventilates), various holding positions (escaped every one) and even trancing at a last ditched attempt (will struggle free)- all failures.

It never used to be this bad, she used to cooperate but now she fights everything and is obviously extremely frightened, it’s ironic being that she has never had more trust in me as a guardian and still stays close to me but will not have her nails trimmed  I fear the stress may even be enough to give her a heart attack at some points and that too tight a grip could snap her fragile bones. Vet trips are no less stressful, so I limit them to only vaccinations and emergencies. It’s become very stressful as each time she flinches it’s as if I’ve caused her great pain and that is a very difficult thing for me to know and carry on. I’m at a loss, should I just continue even if it hurts her?

Thank you for your time

[GeorgieTheBunny]

I think this is going to be a divisive topic

Nail trims may have become a 2 person job at this point.

Did a search for an image of how I hold bunny:
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/83UrYfAD6dA/hqdefault.jpg
(This was the first result – Don’t watch the attached video. This bunny is having stitches snipped out *scary*)

I hold buns and the bf does the press-press-clip.

We set a time/stress limit before we start. Anybody gets too upset then we are done for the day; even if only one paw gets done. Plus we won’t go over, say, 20 minutes of “recapturing” after escapes because it’s too stressful.

Any vet techs make house calls where you live?

[DanaNM]

My Bunston was very scared during nail trims, and was impossible to trance! Before I had a helper, I would take him to my lock house rabbit society for trims.  With him it was a 2 person job, so once I had a helper (my partner) I would hold him against my body, and shift him slightly to expose each foot, while my partner would trim the nails. The whole process was less than 10 minutes. We would get lots of scornful foot thumps and dirt flicks afterward, but he would forgive us pretty quickly. If you want to try this method, I can take some photos of how I would hold him and post them. 

I have also heard of some people desensitizing their buns using clicker training. The videos are on youtube. First they got them used to having their feet handled without picking them up. Then they would “trimming” pieces of raw spaghetti near the bun’s foot, to get them used to the sound (apparently the sound can be as shocking as the sensation).  Then eventually they were able to trim the nails on the ground, without handling the bunny at all! I know you have a very close relationship with Autumn, so this might be something to look into! 

I saw another training vid where they made it a game for the bun to “attack” one of those sanding blocks, that has sandpaper on each side, to help wear down the bunnies nails without trimming. You would still need to trim the back ones though. 

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Autumn's Dad]

Georgie- That sounds like a good system, I guess I just wanted it over and done with but maybe say one paw a day might be a better bet. That is a good holding method in the pic. It will have to stay a one person job but perhaps setting limits would help. Not that I’m aware of, but that’d be interesting to look into. Thanks for the reply

Dana- Interesting, I might have a go at desensitizing her as that would help her realise it’s not to be feared. I’ve never cut her quicks but I think because of the way her toe is bent during clipping it scares her. Oh Autumn would love that! Recently she has been tearing up the floor and I believe she’s trying to file down her claws. Thank you for the reply

[Q8bunny]

I have the same problem with Chewie. He’ll flop on top of me, let me massage his feet, but as soon as nails are involved, it’s a NUH UH, NO WAY. So we go to the vet every two or three months (he wears down his nails quite a bit on the tile floors). To me, the desensitising seems very promising for Autumn.

[Azerane]

Keep in mind that you don’t have to clip all her nails at once Bandit was an absolute terror to clip, and it was a fight to get them all done. So I stopped fighting and just started clipping one or two at a time. If you can only manage to clip one nail before she freaks out, only clip one nail. Make yourself a drawing of her paws (it just has to be four circles for her feet with nails drawn on and indicate left from right and head from tail end) and every time you manage to clip a nail, cross it off on your diagram and write the date you clipped it. I realised that only clipping a couple at a time, I couldn’t keep track of what I had done, but with the diagram it became very easy to just target what nail needed doing next without too much fussing around.

Certainly desensitising is the best thing you can do, offer a yummy big piece of lettuce or similar, when she is distracted, quickly clip one nail and follow it up with an extra tasty treat, and done

[Theodorusrex]

Probably not a totally helpful contribution here but I will add my 2 pence anyway.

We had terrible trouble trimming Theo’s nails and they grow SO quickly. He will squirm out of a burrito in 2 seconds flat, will escape any high or unfamiliar area at his own risk of injury (I think he would literally jump off a skyscraper to avoid nail trimming or grooming), trancing isn’t even an option, holding him in my arms is fine he will be calm until someone tries to touch his back foot and then he will scratch and climb to escape (he recently booted me in the face with his back thumpers during syringe feeding and bust my lip right open) so I feel your pain. It’s really frustrating because he will climb up on our laps, loves being held and stroked but as soon as nail clipping becomes an option he turns into a demon bunny.

I wish I had a solution for this (others have mentioned some really helpful things to try) but we now just visit our vet who trims them for £9 every 3 months or so and usually does a quick health check while they’re at it. Usually the nurse holds him and another nurse clips. The last time we were there they asked me to hold him up with his back along my stomach and his thumpers pointing out towards her and I thought no way will he allow this but I think because he was at the vet he was much more tolerant. I held him like I normally do to do his front paws but held him up higher with his paws over my shoulder and the nurse stood behind me to clip – this worked well.

[Q8bunny]

That’s exactly how we do Chewie’s nails at the vet

[DorothyTheMiniSatinBun]

Posted By Theodorusrex on 6/16/2017 9:31 AM

Probably not a totally helpful contribution here but I will add my 2 pence anyway.

We had terrible trouble trimming Theo’s nails and they grow SO quickly. He will squirm out of a burrito in 2 seconds flat, will escape any high or unfamiliar area at his own risk of injury (I think he would literally jump off a skyscraper to avoid nail trimming or grooming), trancing isn’t even an option, holding him in my arms is fine he will be calm until someone tries to touch his back foot and then he will scratch and climb to escape (he recently booted me in the face with his back thumpers during syringe feeding and bust my lip right open) so I feel your pain. It’s really frustrating because he will climb up on our laps, loves being held and stroked but as soon as nail clipping becomes an option he turns into a demon bunny.

I wish I had a solution for this (others have mentioned some really helpful things to try) but we now just visit our vet who trims them for £9 every 3 months or so and usually does a quick health check while they’re at it. Usually the nurse holds him and another nurse clips. The last time we were there they asked me to hold him up with his back along my stomach and his thumpers pointing out towards her and I thought no way will he allow this but I think because he was at the vet he was much more tolerant. I held him like I normally do to do his front paws but held him up higher with his paws over my shoulder and the nurse stood behind me to clip – this worked well.

We do Dorothy’s in a similar way. Her nails stay rather short because we have hardwood, and I think that helps with filing her nails down. We clip hers on a table, so she doesn’t run away. My boyfriend holds her with her back against his chest while I clip the back ones. Sometimes it’s hard to do them all at once, so we will put her down and give her a little break and some pets so she calms down. We usually break in between each paw and give her a little snack. To do the front, we usually just shimmy her front paw out from under her while she is lying on her stomach, and my boyfriend will use one hand to pet her and keep her in one spot and calm and the other hand to help prop up the paw on his hand so I can clip. It works for us, but she gets irritated and doesn’t like it very much. But hey, at least we don’t have to do it that often!

[Autumn's Dad]

Q8bunny- it’s almost as if she sees the hand with the clipper as not me and will actually run into me, shoving her head between my chest and arm for protection!

Azerane- I like the diagram idea, thanks!

Theodorusrex- It feels almost criminal not taking her to the vets but it costs me £25 just to visit them! Yep, that’s the only way the doc can hold her and only through great fear of all the cat and dog smells/ noises there.

Dorothy- I wish I could have a similar set up but even more frustrating are her sore hocks which never go despite very costly treatment and the softest floors possible.

[DanaNM]

Here’s the video I was thinking of that show’s the “spaghetti ” training: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEFrHZbw6tQ

And here’s the one that shows how to teach them to file their nails themselves! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jr4CSlPopjg

Both channels have lots of other nifty clicker training videos to help get started, and so many cute tricks and games to play with them! 

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Q8bunny]

Chewie most definitely tries to run away from me.

[Nature Nerd]

Jack is the same way, nothing and I mean nothing works for him. I’ve tried the burrito, he kicks and twists until he’s escaped. I’ve tried trancing, he just twists his way back onto his stomach. I’ve tried high places and places he’s not used to, doesn’t work. I’ve tried using treats, borrowing help from someone else, and covering his eyes with a towel; nothing works. Sometimes I get so stressed and upset and worried I nearly cry. His front nails usually aren’t hard, but his back nails are impossible. I hate having to do them, and his nails grow like weeds. I would want to take him to the vet to get them trimmed but I think the price would really add up. I guess I could try desensitizing and see how that goes. I already do the get-however-many-you-can-done-now-and-do-more-tomorrow method, which is fine except I usually never get any done. I don’t like trying for too long because I’m worried about the stress. His room is carpet so that doesn’t really help wear down his nails but I’m trying to replace it with tile. I guess I’ll just see how the spaghetti method goes and try to figure something else out.

[Autumn's Dad]

Sorry for the delay

DannaNM- thanks for the links and info. it’s mad how quick they take to things, I keep her hay in a storage container and she knows now to hop on it whe she feels the hay left is not up to her standards

Q8bunny- all smiles and head shakes till the clippers come out huh

Nature- I’m sorry to hear, I admit I often get fed up with it but it’s taking the steps to improve the situation that count, that all we can do.

[Author]

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