Samson and Ivy’s bonding journal– **BONDED** (now with pics added)

[RachelB]

Hi everyone!! 

A quick history…. We went on a bunny date last week to see two potential friends and Samson got along great with Ivy.  Samson is at the vets today getting neutered so send out some good vibes for a easy and speedy recovery for him. And Ivy is going in tomorrow to be neutered as well (so more good vibes to him as well).  They will both be recovering for 2 weeks before we will begin the bonding sessions.   The timing worked out great because I am moving to a new apartment next week so their next meeting will be on very neutral territory that neither of them has ever been to.  Sammy will be staying at my boyfriends recovering until then, and Ivy will be with his current family.

When they met previously there was no signs of aggression.  They actaully ignored eachother for almost an hour before we put them into a smaller space.  Then they approached eachother sniffing and had a minigroom.  Each moved around the room rubbing their chins on everything in site marking it as theirs but there wasnt any poo wars or chasing.  After another few minutes of ignoring eachother Ivy approached Samson from the front and they had a staring contest for a bit, next Ivy went around behind and mounted him.  Samson just layed down flat on the ground until Ivy was done.  Then Ivy left and went trotting over to the food dish.  The each moved around the room eating, using the litterboxes, and coming to us for petting.  Ivy did mount a few more times, sometimes Samson just laid down sometimes he ran away and Ivy chased.  Samson tried to mount Ivy a few times but Ivy is a bit quicker and could usually run away.  Samson did get one or two mounts in in which Ivy just laid there for a bit and then turned around and mounted Samson.  After about 20 mintues of this Samson flopped down in one corner and Ivy came over a bit later and just sat next to him.  I petted both their heads for a bit and decided they made a good pair.  So Sammyboy is getting friend!!

Quesitons about their next meeting:

1) Since they dont seem aggressive towards eachother do I need to do stress bonding?  It seems unnecessary since they arent aggressive but maybe it will be helpful anyways???!!!

2) At the new apartment they will have the run of the entire downstairs.  I plan on starting them out in the kitchen and then enlarging their space slowly over time to see how they do.  If they seem to get along do I need to have them in seperate cages or actually caged up at all?  I was hoping that they could roam freely and would only need a food/potty area (plus their maze, boxes, tunnel, diggybox and toys). Does anyone have suggestions on if/how no cage has worked for you all?? 

3) I plan to work from home the first week that they are together so I can do some pretty heavy duty bonding sessions.  I will have two areas/cages ready from the start incase we need to have time outs from bonding but hope to have them (and me) together 24/7.  Has anyone tried this? 

4)Also do I need to provide each with an area that is “their own?” or does that make more issues??  I was hoping that the entire area could be shared but perhaps thats selfish of me and I need to give them each space that is theirs?

Anyways I am so excited.  I have read through tons and tons of peoples experiences on here but would love to hear your suggestions. 

Thanks a ton-

Rachel (Samson and Ivy)

[Deleted User]

hey Rachel, that sounds really promising! One thing I would suggest is to use one of the cages you have as a confined area for letting their bond settle. What I mean is to cage them for the first little while in close quarters if there is no fighting.  After a couple of weeks of sharing a small space you can allow them to expand together. If these two are introduced to neutral territory together (the other pen/cage), I don’t see a necessity for providing any separate zones for them individually. You will have them for their life time and the more separate areas you supply, the more litter boxes you will have to clean etc. It’s really not necessary if you get a strong bond going. Use stressors during bonding only if you find they are escalating. These two  may not need stress at all to bond. You could start out the first session with a stressor on hand, like a vacuum cleaner, e.g. Sometimes this helps to ensure each session ends in a good (not fighting) note.

[Deleted User]

edit: I read back your questions once more and I guess you were thinking of using the cages for separate housing, I assume for their healing time?

[RachelB]

No I was just wondering if I needed to have them seperated after they are in the neutral area like if they HAD to have cages at all. They will be living in seperate houses Samson with my boyfriend and Ivy with his other family until they are healed. Then they will be introduced in a small area of the kitchen together. I am hoping that I dont have to give them separate areas at all but was wondering if anyone has had success putting their bunnies together for 24 hours from the start. Also didnt know if they needed their own areas or if sharing everything would be okay. Thanks for the input so far… I cant wait to get started!!

[Beka27]

One method of bonding is to “wear them down”, put the bunnies together and just sit and watch them for as long as it takes to make sure they don’t fight, but this is usually done towards the end of the bonding when they are almost ready to be together permanently. It’s not always possible to start bonding this way. It’s going to depend on how they act with each other in the new apartment, there’s no way for any of us to know how they will do. You will want to have separate cages for them b/c it’s very likely that they won’t be able to be kept together right away. Even the best, easiest bonds usually take about a week before they are housed together.

[RachelB]

Thanks for all the input!! I am busy getting the new apartment ready for Samson and Ivy’s big arrival. I plan to try and have their first few dates be as long as they will tolerate eachother. I have two cages set up incase they need time apart, and will rotate them between cages if need be. Hopefully it all goes well I LOVED everyones bonding journals/pages so I am going to try and take lots of photos/minivideos during the process.

[Beka27]

I think it’ll go great! Be patient with them and read their body language and you can learn a lot as you go along. Have you read the House Rabbit Network bonding article? It’s one of my faves.

http://www.rabbitnetwork.org/articles/bond.shtml

[bunnymama]

Gosh Rachel – you really sound prepared. With Dino and Gracie, I could have done the 24 hour thing after about a week of bonding sessions –they were already bonded and when I would try to separate them, they would huddle together since they did not want to be parted. By parted I mean in the same room with a divider down the middle where they could each still see each other. Remember to keep their cages by each other (not up to each other where they can scratch at each other throught the bars) so they can always see each other. Switch each others poop dishes too before cleaning them to spread adn combine their scents. I wouldn’t try stress methods unless you have to at some point down the line. Your first meeting went really well I think. Good luck.

[RachelB]

Well the big day has come!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Around 7pm tonight, Samson is coming with me over to pick up Ivy and then we will have a 15 min car ride to their new place. I have a box lined with plastic and then towels ready for the car ride (hopefully they will be nervous and just snuggle!) Then I’ll have them set up in the kichen. I’ve cleaned everything that was previously Samson’s with vinegar and water twice so hopefully he wont associate them as his anymore. Two pens are ready (just incase) and then I have a play pen area (3×4) set up that we will do the boding in. Inside is a litter box, water dish and pretty much thats it. I will feed them together in there tonight (hopefully that will help the bonding). Tonight we will start the bonding until bedtime and hopefully they behave and can spend the night together. I plan on sleeping on the floor of the living room less than 3 feet from their cages incase anything happens. Then tomorrow I am taking off work and can watch them then its the weekend. My hope is by the end of the weekend they will be pretty well bonded. I will continue updating you guys on their progress… with lots of pictures to come.

 

[RachelB]

I’ve changed the topic title sice I am going to continue updating here about bonding Samson and Ivy… Sorry if I confused anyone Thanks again for all the advise and support!!

[jerseygirl]

Hi Rachel. I read this thread before but really missed some details! Firstly, how did Samson go with his surgery? I take it Ivy is also a buck?
As they are both just fixed they may have some residual hormones for a while that could affect bonding. Hopefully this won’t be the case and they’ll make fast friends. Goodluck!

[RachelB]

Both Samson and Ivy’s surgeries went well. They both seemed to have healed up nicely. I am/was worried about residual hormones but didnt want to introduce them to the very neutral new home seperately thus am under a time crunch. If they seem to have issues I will cage them next to eachother and put off the bonding for a few weeks.

[RachelB]

 So here goes……

 Thursday (day 1)

7pm– Head over to Ivys house to pick up Ivy.  Sammy and Ivy meet on Ivy’s kitchen floor (just like last time).  This is a neutral space in Ivy’s house so figured it would be okay for a few minute meeting.  Got all Ivy’s paperwork from the vet’s and some of his food/hay he likes and we are off.
Samson and Ivy meet for the second time in Ivy’s kitchenHmmmmm…. you smell familiar

730pm-745pm– Car ride home.  They are in a small basket together with a towel on the bottom.  Ivy is terrified of the car ride and hunches down in the corner against Sammy for the entire ride shaking.  Samson has been in the car many many times and thus is a pro.  He is curious and looks out the window moving all over Ivy.  I try and keep them laying next to one another with lots of petting on their heads.

9:30-  Ivy aproaches Samson and starts grooming his eyes.  Samson isnt used to this and shys away.  About 5 minutes later Ivy again aproaches and grooms his eyes.  Not his head, no fur involved– just his eyes— kinda weird!!  Both flop on opposite sides of the cage and stay like that looking at eachother for 30 min or so.

Yea…. we made it home (Ivys old kitchen and their new one has the same tile floor…. is it fate?!?!)

10:00- Slowly they move closer and closer together which is h-i-l-a-r-i-o-u-s to watch!!  Until they are finally both flopped touching eachother.  They are ying/yang position but still an improvement.

11:00- Hormones must have kicked in right about now.  Ivy sat up and gave Samson a very nice eye-groom and then wanted to mount him in return.  Well Sammy was having no part of that.  He layed there for the grooming but bolted as soon as Ivy would get into mounting position.  I felt so bad for poor Ivy.  He aproached Sammy groomed him and then tried to mount at least 10 times with 15-20 aproaches straight to mount inbetween.  I am unsure…… Should I have stopped this and forced Samson to sit there?  I figured it would be better to just let them work it out.  Ivy didnt seem to distressed by the whole thing and to be completly honest his mounting attempts were pretty weak almost more like he just wanted to chase Sammy around the pen.  So once again unsure-  Do I let them chase?  They run from corner to corner stopping between and it goes on maybe for 2-3 min at a time.  The chase is relaxed enough that Sammy usually flops down in between every one or two goes.  Any suggestions on what this behavour means?

 

12:00- The crazy mount-fest continues and even though neither are showing signs of agression I am concerned.  We are all tired and I want tomorrow’s bonding day to go well so I put a barrier between them making each of their pens a bit smaller.  Each is identical with a food dish, water dish and litter box for the night time.  Samson is thumping, thumping, thumping.  He might not like getting mounted by Ivy but he seems to hate being separated.  I open the barrier up to see what happens.  Ivy grooms Sam, Sam mounts Ivy, Ivy tries to mount Sam and the chase is on.  Noone will get any sleep this way…… so even if they dont like it they are getting seperate pens tonight.  More Sammy thumping…

3:30- I am a worrier and sleeping literally 2 feet from their cage on the kitchen floor.  I hear someone flip thier litterbox and get up to investigate.  They are sitting next to eachother with the gate/barrier between them.  How cute!!

 

Friday (Day 2)

6:00- Even though I didnt get much sleep last night and am exhausted I am excited about the day ahead.  I guess the bunnies are too because since 5am  I have heard the bunnies are pacing along the barrier, flopping next to it, and making lots of noise.  I give in and get up for the day.  As soon as I open up a little spot they bolt right over to eachother.  Funny because they misjudge the slippery floor and kinda bump heads.  Ivy makes it all better with some more eye-licks for Sam.  Sam greets Ivy with a morning romp, Ivy just lays there and lets him.  Then amazingly after Sam gets off Ivy grooms him again and Sam lays there for Ivy’s goodmorning romping. So funny.  Then they are off running together around the pen while I sweep up stray hay and poops.  Both used their litterboxes for all their pee which is amazing and there are very few stray poos (IS it really possible that I will escape without a poowar?? Hehehe!!)

8:00- The morning is pretty uneventful.  Lots of flopping next to eachother or across the room, an occasional groom by Ivy (none by Samson—poor Ivy!), and a few half-hearted mounting attempts on both accounts. Since things are progressing well I figure I’ll give it a try with the litterbox again.  I put the contents of both their overnight boxes into the big litterbox and add more fresh hay ontop.  Both hop in the litterbox and try it out.  Once again no stray poos or pees all day today!!!!! Woohoo!

3:00- The day continues with much of the same.  There are a few short times 15 min or less where one of them seems insistent on mounting the other and if the other one wont comply there is some slowish chasing but noone seems upset or angry.  No nipping or agression at all.  My only concern is this…. when they do mount and the other one is submissive they both grab on to the others hair.  This I know is normal.  But heres the ???weird??? part after they are done shaking their stuff they then groom/nip (but they are only grabbing fur— i stuck my hand under many times to check) all along their back.  Has anyone seen this and is it normal?  Im not sure if I should end the mounting before that happens or let them continue. 

4:00- Samson is being a bit of a bully.  His newest trick is to stomp his foot and then aproach Ivy with his head down for grooming.  If Ivy doesnt comply he stops again twice.  Still no grooming??  Then Samson mounts Ivy (Ivy usually just lays down and stays there).  Once Samson is done he will hop off and lay next to Ivy for a bit and then hop away.  He did this 5 or 6 times before I figured out what all the stomping was for.  Is this okay??? I feel like hes being a bully…. anyway to stop this kind of behavour or is it normal in sorting out dominance?

5:15- They are the cutest little buns!!!  Samson was flopped out on one side of the cage and Ivy came over and started grooming him.  Ivy’s finally gotten the hang of grooming a bit more and branched out to grooming one of Samson’s ears.  Sammy loved it and was smushed on the floor totally relaxed.  Then instead of trying to mount Sam like Ivy usually does he just layed down right there next to Sammy and rested his head next to his…. so cute!!

9:30– Everything all day up till now has been going great.  Hormone time must have kicked in.  The mounting chase seemed more insistant and the hair grabbing was being held onto during the chase.  I didnt want anyone to get hurt so a time out was called for.  They are both sitting on the opposite sides as last night pissed off at me thumping their feet.  Sorry little guys— its for your safety!!

 

 

 

Hope to update again soon with more news.  They seriously are the cutest little *soon to be* luv-buns ever!!

EDIT:

11pm: They both seem much less frantic so I remove the barrier between them and they are very sweet to one another.  A little groom by Ivy and then flop down together in the corner.

12:30am-They both are quiet and seem to be sleeping….

[RachelB]

Saturday (Day 3)

5am– I awake to the sounds of lots of chasing in the cage.  They are running in circles Ivy chasing Samson, lots of honking, stomping of feet, and running around and around.  I decide that we all need some MOREEEEE sleep and add the divider again.  Neither are too happy and stomp their feet for 5 min or so.  Then all is quiet and I hear them both flop on their sides.

6am- Once again awake to bunny feet but this time much less frantic.  They are pacing along the barrier following one another.  Not sure what kind of game they are playing but they will follow one way and then the other and then Samson stops and sticks his nose through the barrier (no space between the cages tonight) and Ivy grooms him.  Then they are back to walking up and down and up and down.  Cute!  I open up the barrier between them and Samson hops over to Ivy’s “side”.  There are some love grooms by Ivy and then Samson mounts Ivy.  He then proceedes to rub his chin all over Ivy top to bottom at least 2-3 times….. this is MY bunny!!  Hehe!  Ivy mounts Samson and he sits there for a bit before taking off across the cage.  The mounting game is on for about 15 minutes and then the both flop down next to eachother. 

What are YOU looking at lady?

8am- I **think** they are pretty much buddies now.  All day they’ve each gone about their buisness eating, drinking, pooing, etc but then usually return to where the other one is sitting and lay next to eachother.  Sometimes they are head to head, sometimes along eachothers side, sometimes butt to head, or ying/yang…. but usually touching in some way.

Lets rub noses…. oooo oooo right there!

2pm- To be honest I actually forgot about the bunnies for a bit today (not forgot that I had them but forgot to be nervous that they are together).  They are getting along so well!!!  Both use the litterbox, even together!!  No fights over food, no fights over their t-shirt blanket, just lots of snuggles.  I caught Samson giving Ivy the cutest groom this afternoon too.  He had his paws on Ivys back and was grooming kinda from the side but it was adorable.  Went on for almost 5 minutes, including his whole head, eyes and ears.  What a sweetheart!!!

 Still having to watch them incase of backwards mounts, or mounting in the litterbox…. those are my two rules.  But for the most part I am only watching them with one eye now (heheh impressive huh?!).

Well I guess that seems to be about it.  They have been together now since Thursday except for 4 hours the first night and a 1 hour time-out/cool off yesterday, an an hour this morning.  I am sleeping on the couch again tonight to supervise but I feel like I really trust them to be gentle with eachother now.  I couldnt figure out how to upload pics to this thread but I made an albumn with pics from the first two days bonding.  Thanks again for all the help and advise.  This forum was a HUGE help to prepare me mentally and to know what to expect from the bunnies when they met.

Thanks again-

Rachel, Samson and Ivy

[Monkeybun]

Sounds like tons of fun! lol. Must remember to stock up on coffee when I get my Monkey a friend…. sounds like I may need it

*snuggles for Samson and Ivy*

[jerseygirl]

Wow – so quick! It has really paid of that you did your research beforehand. Looks like Samson has established position as top bun. I was relieved to read though, that you saw him grooming Ivy today. Ivy’s mounting of Samson in the beginning may have been because Samson was not returning any grooms. Ivy may be more content now. All sounds very promising. Get some sleep! lol

[RachelB]

They are getting along so well. Lots of grooming on both boys behalf!! Still not sure who is “top bun” because they both will mount eachother. Ivy almost always just sits there and lets Samson mount, Samson usually runs away when Ivy trys to mount but I have also seen him sit there for Ivy to mount. Not sure that it really matters that one is dominant and the other submissive because they arent fighting and it doesnt seem to bother them at all!! And Id say that they sit cuddling or exploring their bonding area 95% of the time anyway so maybe the bonding will die down even more over the next few days. Thanks again everyone for all the help!!

[RachelB]

A few photos of the luv buns

[Author]

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