Sad reality of the 4-H shed

[Knabbel Did It]

I’m so disappointed with the 4-H lady that we went to visit on Friday to see two Holland Lops she had for sale.  The shed was overcrowded with cages and poo that hadn’t been cleaned in a long time.  It was so sad.  She told me she had sold the two buns the night before to two 4-H members that she had told me were available just a few days ago.  That’s fine, but then she said she had another Holland Lop for sale but that his ears hadn’t fallen yet.  When I asked how long until they would fall, her 9-year old daughter pipes up with, “Oh, his ears are NEVER going to fall.”  She got a quick, stern look from her mother and then she went on to tell me that it wasn’t a big deal and they’d fall eventually.  But I know better because one of my buns from a long time ago had one ear that fell and the other stood straight up (she was adorable!). 

Needless to say, I was polite and told her I’d been looking at rescue bunnies and was going to see some this week.  She was very nice about it and said that was great.  Then she showed me her ‘culls’ (not sure if that’s the right word?), bunnies that didn’t make the cut to be in the shed and not show-worthy.  She said I should check out the feed stores because they sometimes have rabbits that the breeders drop off that they don’t want.  Did I say how sad this is yet?  Ugh.  There is no way I’m going to support her by buying a rabbit from her, even though ALL of her rabbits need to be rescued!  Sorry if I’m going on about this; I wasn’t going to say anything about it here, but I just couldn’t keep it in anymore. 

The GOOD news is that we did find a sweet little Dutch bunny from the New Mexico House Rabbit Society in Albuquerque that needs a forever family.  We’re going to see him on Tuesday, and if he likes us, we’ll bring him home.  I had thought that a three hour drive would be too much for a little bun, but after reading several more posts here about traveling with buns and talking to the guy at NMHRS, I was convinced that it would be fine.  Such a better choice for us to bring home a rescue bunny, even though a Holland Lop would have been super sweet, too. 

 

[Monkeybun]

3 hours will be fine for him, when I got Monkey, I drove 3 hours for her

[Beka27]

I’m very sorry you’re upset. I would be too. It is a perpetual cycle: lots of babies bunnies, half aren’t “good enough”, get rid of those, make more baby bunnies… You are better off not supporting her at all. When it comes down to it, breed and coloring and position of ears DOES NOT matter. What matters is that an amazing rabbit gets a loving home. Please keep us updated. ;o)

[LittlePuffyTail]

I agree..the whole 4-H thing is sad. I’m opposed to animal showing because of the fact that they breed so many rabbits in the attempt to find the “perfect breed specimen” and the rest are just discarded like they are not even living creatures. Can you imagine if that was done with people? “This baby has blue eyes…we wanted green..better put him in the basement and try again”. Sorry…I’m just very passionate about this.

Hope all goes well with the Dutch bunny. Good luck!

[Sarita]

I’m sorry you had a bad experience but I’m not surprised either. It is sad. However I’m so glad you are going to adopt from NMHRS. I can tell you that the Dutch bunnies are very smart and very sweet rabbits. I cannot wait to hear all about your adoption and meet your new bunny.

[Kate Monster]

When I was at the shelter to pick up Kate and Spence, there was a dad there with his kids looking for a bunny for the 4-H and had to be told by the staff that 4-H didn’t allow altered rabbits. Which is particularly silly when you’re talking about entries from kids in the first place, but I think it’s safe to say that they weren’t wanting to adopt a pet, just a ‘project’ and would have kept her in a hutch or something so I was happy they didn’t adopt. But of course he tried to convince them to let him have a rabbit before they spayed/neutered, they refused over course. I appreciate programs that can teach kids an appreciation for animals, but 4-H really doesn’t do that, it turns what should be a pet into a ‘project’ and I’m guessing most of their attention spans don’t last after the project is over.
And it is hard, wanting to buy a pet to rescue it from it’s current situation, but knowing that if you do you’re just supporting this person to put more animals in it’s place. I hope all works out with the Dutch bunny and that we get to see cute pictures soon!

[Beka27]

I would much rather get an animal as a family pet and teach love and respect of animals THAT way. In fact, I’m already doing this since my son has been around bunnies for most of his life.

[kralspace]

and if he likes us, we’ll bring him home.

 

ah Knabbel, I like you already! What a lucky bunny!

[Knabbel Did It]

Thank you to everyone here for all of your help and support. I feel like I have a whole new circle of friends to hang out with : )

We’re very excited to bring our bunny home tomorrow! I need to get a ton of work done today so that I can have plenty of free time once the little bun gets here. The ironing may have to wait another week! LOL!

[littlemissflip]

So sorry to hear the Holland Lop didn’t work out… I’m partial to them But even sadder to hear about the awful conditions at that 4H place, and the upsetting experience you had with them. I know that stuff happens, but… it still makes me so sad to hear about it

[LBJ10]

I think the story is pretty much the same for just about any animal when it comes to 4-H. Although I don’t remember it being a requirement that the animal is unaltered. A friend of mine was in 4-H and she used her cat. The cat was a family pet and she was spayed. I remember going to watch her at the show and there were a ton of kids there with “barn” cats from their farm. It was obvious that they didn’t see these cats as members of the family. It made me really sad. I can’t imagine someone breeding bunnies specifically for 4-H. Why can’t kids show a rabbit that they adopted as a pet? Just because an animal isn’t purebred doesn’t mean it isn’t a good “specimen”.

[LoveChaCha]

Knabbel, my rabbit isn’t show quality that is why the breeder wanted to get rid of her. Her beautiful ears too too long, her arms and legs are too long,her head shape is too big,  she inherited the false dwarf gene, which puts her at 3.5 pounds of Diva. But I wouldn’t trade her for the world.

It is sad how humans can judge animals based on characteristics that aren’t good enough.

When I went to get Chacha, the cages in the barn were clean, and the breeder gave me some of the food Chacha was eating, and I immediately made a switch over to better food. I didn’t even get a chance to hold her, even though the person said she would teach me how to hold a rabbit. She just put her in my carrier.

My future rabbits will be from the shelter.

[Eepster]

I was involved in 4H as a teen (decades ago) and knew others who were too. The thing one needs to keep in mind is that 4H is run by the Department of Agriculture. It is not about teaching pet care or a love of animals, it is about training young farmers.

A farmer views his animals differently than a pet owner does. A farmer may in some ways become fond of a prize sheep, but every spring all but the most perfect of lambs go off to the butcher to become lamb chops. Showing that most perfect lamb, and having it compete against other lambs, is a way to encourage the keeping of good breeding stock.

Until recently, bunnies were not primarily thought of as pets, they were considered live stock. Just like chickens, sheep, pigs and cows. Rabbits were raised for meat (hasenfeffer,) pelts (to make things like rabbit fur collars on winter coats,) and for their feet (lucky rabbits foot keychains.) My great-great-grandfather breed rabbits, and most of them were not pets (he gave one too small bunny to my dad as a pet.)

Theses days, bunnies are widely seen as pets, but still often cared for like livestock by breeders. In an organization like 4H that is about agriculture, the line between farm stock and pet gets particularly blurred. Raising a pig for slaughter is truly a project. It comes with a logical start, and a sad but also logical end. These days since rabbits in the US aren’t generally raised for meat and fur anymore, so there is no longer a logical end to a rabbit project.

Actual 4H clubs will vary widely in practice. Some will tend to be more oriented towards keeping bunnies as pets, but many will still be primarily focused on agriculture. They all will be at least in part about breeding though, and will never promote universal spaying and neutering. Of course if universal spaying/neutering did ever occur, then there would never be any new bunnies and in 11-12 years bunnies would go extinct, not that there is any real danger of that occurring.

[Beka27]

You make a very important point Eepster. It is true that the focus in 4-H is very different than what we are accustomed to when thinking of our beloved animal companions. Unfortunately, WE see the aftermath. Widespread breeding practices, by non-professional breeders, result in an abundance of rabbits withering away with inadequate care, dumped to fend for themselves, or if they are LUCKY… surrendered to a shelter where they at least have a small chance of being adopted prior to euthanasia. I understand that some level of breeding is necessary to continue having rabbits, but I feel this should be highly regulated, and rabbits who are “for pet use” need to be altered. There are just too many backyard breeders thinking they can make a quick buck by having a litter every couple months. Once an animal is out of the breeders possession, they have no control over the fate of that animal.

[Sarita]

I don’t think either that in 11-12 years rabbits will go extinct if 4-H stops breeding them. There are plenty of other breeders out there still breeding them unfortunately other than 4-H.

I had a friend who rescued 2 Californians that she saw a 4-Her dump in a field. They were the lucky ones and found a good loving home. Being bred and then dumped in a field is not being a responsible breeder or a responsible person and this certainly does not show children responsibility. These 2 would have perished if they had not been rescued.

[Eepster]

Posted By Sarita on 03/17/2011 06:36 AM
I don’t think either that in 11-12 years rabbits will go extinct if 4-H stops breeding them. There are plenty of other breeders out there still breeding them unfortunately other than 4-H.

I had a friend who rescued 2 Californians that she saw a 4-Her dump in a field. They were the lucky ones and found a good loving home. Being bred and then dumped in a field is not being a responsible breeder or a responsible person and this certainly does not show children responsibility. These 2 would have perished if they had not been rescued.

I would say this is a symptom of problems with society in general these days.  

The obvious one is our genrally disposable attitude.  I see it in parents attitudes about trying to get their kids to give up toys to make room for new ones.  I see it in the need to get tve latest seasons fashions even if one hasn’t worn out or out grown one’s older clothing yet.  I see it all around.  Pets are of course the most heart breaking.  I live in an area where the 4H clubs are small in number and size, but our shelters are still over run with unwanted pets.

4H clubs vary greatly.  The one I belonged to never ever treated animals as disposable.  I was aware of the reality of things like meat production, but that isn’t equivalent to dumping an animal in a feild or shelter (and I say this as a vegetarian.)  We didn’t do projects, we had our animals till they passed from old age.  Our meetings were spent discussing care and learning about the breeds.   Everyone in the club was passitionate about their animals.

My highschool boy friend had a very different expirience with 4H though.  Where he grew up it was more rural and 4H was just the thing to do.  they were assigned projects.  It was kind off sad.  BF told me of having been given a delightful fluffy chick to raise, but the high calorie food he was give made the chicken grow so round he could barely move, and he was told to keep it in a very small cage to keep it from getting to much excercise and getting too muscular.  Of course it was being raise for meat, and I’m not sure he was warned about what come when the project is over.  It was a pretty horrible situation all around.

These days, there is more of a push to put how one was in this club or did that thing on college applications.  I think it leads to a lot of kids joining stuff like 4H who don’t really care.  They aren’t passionate about the animals, they just need to pad their transcripts.  

[Beka27]

You usually have to be 18 to volunteer, but I think many animal shelters/rescues will allow parents to bring their teens with them to volunteer. So that is another option for a fantastic community experience children can put on college applications!

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