Roxi, Asha, and Lionel!

[LongEaredLions]

So I already started bonding my bunnies, but I haven’t made a bonding thread yet because I couldn’t upload pictures. I got Roxi and Asha on Saturday, and have been bonding them since. Here are descriptions of the bonding sessions:

Sat: Stress bonded them in car for 15 min, then put them in a box to cuddle for 45 min, then drove 1hr, then let them run around in a 3×4 space for 10 min. During the time they were hopping on the rug, Lionel nipped Asha’s butt twice. No grooming. Neutral Space.

Sun: Stress bonded them by putting them in a box and shaking it for 5 min, then placed them in a 5×2 pen. I took turns petting each bunny so that the others could come up and explore. Lionel bit Asha’s butt once, I stress bonded them for 5 min, then placed them back in the pen. Asha groomed Lionel’s face for about 10 sec. At that time I put Roxi away as no bun seemed to care about her being there and she was scared and thumping. Asha and Lionel stood on opposite sides of the pen for the rest of the bonding session. Bonded for about 1 hr.Neutral Space.

Mon: Stress bonded them for 5 min, then placed two at a time in a smaller 2×2 pen. Lionel and Roxi: Roxi licked Lionel for about 5 sec, then ran off and thumped. Lionel nipped Roxy’s butt then asked for more grooms by putting his head under hers. Asha and Lionel: Asha did this weird thing that looked like grooming/trying to bite Lionel’s face. Stress bonded for 5 min, they cuddled a bit, then ignored each other. Bonded for about 2 hrs.Neutral Space.

Tues: Stress bonded for about 10 min, then left them in the box for about 1 hr. Roxi licked Lionel’s ear. Lionel snuggled up against Roxi and the both went to what I can only assume was sleep. Asha stood by them and watched. I put them all in the 2×2 pen. Asha did the weird grooming/biting thing again. They all snuggled in the corner. Bonded for about 2 hrs.Neutral Space.

Wed: Stress bonded for about 10 min, then placed them in a 2×2 pen. Lionel and Asha put their heads together, Lionel licked Asha once, then asked for grooms. Roxi stood in the corner, but then joined the snuggle. Bonded for about 1 hour. Neutral Space.

I know that it is maybe better to not put them together right after I stress bond them, but it actually seems to work.

Today I am thinking of doing semi-neutral, since they haven’t really fought or humped at all. I will upload pics soon of the sessions.

Any suggestions welcome

[LongEaredLions]

So here are the sessions I did today:
1:A sectioned-off part of the bunny room. 1 hr. I stress bonded them for 15 min, I think there was a little tiff in the box between Lionel and Asha. Then I put them in the pen. Lionel lunged once at each bunny, nipped them. There was also a small fight involving all the bunnies. No Grooming.
2: I thought I had pushed them into a too familiar area too soon, so I tried them in the living room, where they occasionally play. I stress bonded for 5 min, then they sat in the box for 10 min cuddling. Then I put them in a 2×2 pen. Asha groomed Lionel. Lionel nipped Asha’s butt. Lionel then nipped Roxi’s butt. I put them in the box to do more stress bonding. All of a sudden, there was a huge fight between Asha and Lionel. I stopped them, and removed Roxi from the box, before I started to stress bond them again. They started fighting again, trying to bite each other. I stopped them, but they kept trying to bite each other. Asha got a small cut on her nose and a rather deep cut on her lip which worries me. When I finally got them to calm down, I laid them next to each other and pet them for around 5 min before I put them away.
So, regarding the 2nd bonding session. The best thing to do would be to go back to the neutral area and keep working there right? Does this fight mean that they won’t really bond? Why would they start fighting when they have done pretty well before? Any suggestions?
Do any experienced bonders have any advice? (psst…tanlover and Move diagonally)

[MoveDiagonally]

I wouldn’t worry too much about the will they won’t they bond stuff right now. It’s pretty early for that set of worries.

I know that it is maybe better to not put them together right after I stress bond them, but it actually seems to work.

I think this is different for everybun. I almost always did hybrid stress/normal sessions and never had issues with them/found them effective. Quick question, are they fighting while you stress bond them or after? 

[LongEaredLions]

I would stress bond them if they started to nip each other or something like that, and on every day before now during the stress bonding they have been cuddly towards each other. But today, I put Lionel and Asha in the stress bonding box because Lionel had nipped Asha, and while I was shaking it (gently) they fought.

[MoveDiagonally]

I know TL swears by using loud noises to break up fights. Basically you bang something, pans, I used to use pennies in a can, ect… And the noise puts them on alert and makes them stop fighting. It might be worth a try! Sometimes it’s just trial and error until you find something that works for them. If things seem to be getting worse a day or two break might help as well.

How is Asha’s lip?

[LongEaredLions]

Thanks for the tip with the noise. I will try.
I think Asha’s lip will heal up just fine. It is not as deep as I originally thought it was, but I dabbed a teeny bit of povodine iodine on it then watched her until it dried so she didn’t ingest any.
Todays sessions:
1: Asha and Lionel, semi neutral space. I held them on my lap on the couch and pet them for a half an hour. Not much happened. No fighting, no grooming.
2: All three, neutral space. I put them in a 2×2 pen for half an hour. Some snuggling, not much else.

I decided to take a step back from yesterday as I don’t feel like they were quite ready for semi-neural yet. I also kept the bonding short and sweet and was carefull to avoid any fights so we can get back to the progress we were making before the fight they had yesterday. I think tomarrow I will take them in the car, bring them home and they can snuggle on the couch for a bit. That seems to work. Also, when I do the bonding sessions, I tend to pet Lionel to keep him calm so that the girls can approach him. I make sure I don’t stop any of his natural behaviors towards them, it just helps keep him calm. Is this a bad thing to do? Should I try to not intervene at all unless they are fighting?

[LongEaredLions]

Sorry I forgot to post the sessions yesterday!
Yesterday’s sessions (Saturday)
1: Put them all on the couch and pet them. I had to put Roxy in a playpen after about 5 min because she was so spazzy and ready to play and wouldn’t sit with the other two. 30 min
2: I put them in the 2×2 pen. Lionel nipped the girls each about twice. He doesnt really lunge or anything, he just walks up to them and tries to nip their sides or butts. Why does he do this? 30 min
Today’s session

I put them in a box and pet them for a half an hour, then put them on the couch to walk around. Asha walked up to Lionel and snuggled with him for half an hour. Roxy was just being herself and jumped off the couch and started doing zoomies and binking.

Can I have some help? I don’t feel like I am making any progress at all. Lionel likes to snuggle with the girls, but he also nips them a lot. Should I move on and let them sort it ou because they aren’t fighting really? I just don’t get how people can bond 6 or 5 bunnies in a week and I can’t do 3? What do you guys do when the bunnies tussle? I really hate bonding, I am terrified they will hurt each other. How long should I be bonding each day? I really would like to get done with this, I need advice. Can someone bond my three for me?

[MoveDiagonally]

Sorry LEL! I meant to respond to your previous reply but I’ve been sick which makes me get side tracked fairly easily >.<

Should I move on and let them sort it ou because they aren’t fighting really? I just don’t get how people can bond 6 or 5 bunnies in a week and I can’t do 3? What do you guys do when the bunnies tussle? I really hate bonding, I am terrified they will hurt each other.

Generally if they are not hurting each other letting them work it out without intervention is the recommended way to go. This is not by any means me suggesting you let them “fight it out” but the little nips and nudges are fine. I ALWAYS intervene if there is growling, lunging, kicking, boxing, anything like that. It’s hard not to hover but try letting them be together without you in the mix as much. Put them in a pen together and only get involved if there are fights. Let them be bunnies and figure it all out together

Don’t worry about what other people do when it comes to bonding and how long it takes. Everyone and every group of bunnies is different. Be vigilant but don’t worry too much about them hurting each other. Your emotions do affect them so if you bring lots of worries or anxiety it can make them anxious too. I think you’re doing really great!

How long should I be bonding each day? I really would like to get done with this, I need advice.

This really varies from person to person and bunny to bunny. I would try short sessions and try long ones see what works better. Slowly increase the time they’re together when they do well. When things are going well in neutral move to semi neutral again and repeat the process. Start of slow and work your way up. Once they’re doing really great in semi neutral you can do longer sessions and then cement them when you feel they and you are ready.

Remember to be positive. It will happen. They will be bonded. They love each other they just don’t know it yet!

[LongEaredLions]

I will do my very best to not hover. You have been a lot of help to me, thanks so much!
I will make a longer post later but I hate typing on this iPad. O_o

[Zombie-Sue]

I know TL swears by using loud noises to break up fights. Basically you bang something, pans, I used to use pennies in a can, ect…

am I the only one that just yells at them? Omg I feel so mean right now LOL

I wish I still had it. When my rabbits were bonding, I took a picture of some of the clumps of fur they pulled out of each other. All three survived though. You’re going to make mistakes–intervene too soon, not intervening soon enough, and everything in between. If you go through MD’s bonding journal I’m pretty sure that she said there were things she’d wish she did differently (iirc? Sorry if I’m missatributing that, movediagonally) so take a deep breath and be gentle with yourself.

[MoveDiagonally]

am I the only one that just yells at them? Omg I feel so mean right now LOL

Oh Sue, you big meanie ;P

(I’ve yelled too but my husband said it hurt his ears more than shaking can full of coins! Lol)

I’m pretty sure that she said there were things she’d wish she did differently

Oh definitely! Trial and error is a part of bonding because there’s no “perfect” way to do it. Each bunny and bond is different and what works for me or TL or anyone else might not work for your bunnies. The only thing in bonding I consider “set in stone” is the neutral > semi neutral > territory/cementing progression. I think it really works the best.

[LongEaredLions]

Thanks guys, It helps a lot. Today I said to myself, I am not going to hover, I am going to let them be themselves, I am going to bond for two hours straight. I grabbed a full spray bottle, a gravy jar filled with pennies, a bowl of lettuce, a comfortable chair, a broom, a box of mints, my iPad, and a tv table. I set the table up and set on it my iPad and the mints. I set my chair next to he pen, and set the broom next to that. Then I plopped all the bunnies in the pen with the lettuce, sat in the chair, and started working on my iPad. If they started tussling, I would shake the jar with the pennies, if they still didn’t stop, I would spray them with the spray bottle, and if it was a full on fight, I would use the broom to intervene.
(I don’t know why I felt the need to tell you all this)

So, the summary of today’s session!
2hrs, neutral space. 2×3 grid pen, Pile of lettuce in the middle.
In the beginning, they all sat around the lettuce and ate it. Once the lettuce was gone, they hopped around. No fighting, but Lionel would nip any bunny that got too close to him. One snuggle between Asha and Lionel. After each bunny was nipped by Lionel several times, the girls went on one side of the pen and groomed each other, and Lionel went on the other side and groomed himself. Asha humped Roxi’s face. She got squirted on the butt with my spray bottle. The girls would occasionally wander to Lionel’s side of the pen, and would either do a quick nose-touch with him before hopping away, or get nipped by him and still hop away. After a while everybody laid down and ignored everybody else.

[MoveDiagonally]

That’s really great LEL! I know all the ignoring can make it seem like they are not bonding or that progress is not being made but it really is a good thing.

[Zombie-Sue]

It also allows you to get more work done on the ipad! Lol!

[LongEaredLions]

Thanks, I hope it goes well today too!

[LongEaredLions]

Yesterday’s and today’s bonding sessions:
Yesterday: 1 hr. I gave them some veggies. They sat around eating the veggies. When they were done, they sat on opposite sides of the pen. Roxi went over to Lionel. He nipped her. They ignored each other for the rest of the session.
Today: 2hrs. I gave them some veggies. They sat near each other eating them, then sat on opposite sides of the pen. The girls did get nipped a couple times when they got near Lionel, but there were also some nose-touches. I think we are getting there.

[LongEaredLions]

1/2/14 and 1/3/14 bonding sessions
Yesterday: 45 min- gave them some veggies, ate them, ignored each other, a bit of nipping. Same as usual.
Today:- 1.5 hrs Gave them some veggies. They ate them all together, Lionel didn’t seem to mind the girls as much today, he let Roxy cuddle with him. I only had to break up one lunge, I used my mason jar with pennies in it. The jar EXPLODED. I didn’t even shake it that hard. Glass flew everywhere. I freaked out, I took all the bunnies out of the pen and checked them over, no bunny was injured. The remainder of the bonding session was spent cuddling in a box while I cleaned up.. O_o

[MoveDiagonally]

Oh no! D: I’ve never used a jar but I imagine the coins could hit it just right and cause a break. I used a tin can (like a soup can) and taped up the end. Glad everyone was alright! O.O

[LongEaredLions]

It was a thick glass jar, its hard to imagine how the pennies could have broken it! Ah, well. I think I may use a coke can and put tape over the hole

[Zombie-Sue]

You know, glass is unpredictable. At work, I’ve dropped jars from at least my shoulder height (what? five feet ish?) and they’ve kind of bounced and been just fine. Then some jars routinely come in shattered lol. Ball jars in general are really tough.

Jar: 0
yelling at buns: 1 LOL

It sounds like your sessions are going pretty good. Do you plan to make them longer?

[LongEaredLions]

Will yelling at my bunnies make them scared at me?
I think I am going to do a longer session tomorrow. About 4 hrs.

[Zombie-Sue]

No, but if you’re uncomfortable, get a tin can to fill with pennies instead and stick with that. You have to have a certain confidence in your voice that just won’t come out if you don’t like the idea.

Good luuuuuck

[LongEaredLions]

I had to take an emergency trip this week and had to leave the buns behind. I have been back bonding them since Tuesday. Pretty much starting over. I think they are fine but I just want to make sure. What do you guys think?

[Zombie-Sue]

Yep, that’s fine (:

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