refusing to eat and wont take critical care

[bumpybunny]

this morning my rabbit wouldnt eat her morning pellets, when i got the bag she just ran and hid when she usually comes out and goes crazy until she gets it. i tried giving her lettuce, grass and banana (her favorite) but she wouldnt eat it. i opened her pen and she came out to look around for about 30 seconds then went back in her box and hid. she came out and now shes laying in the corner of my room. i kept trying to pick her up to check her belly but she just ran away and then would lay down immediately. she did flop once, i dont know if she would have done that if she was in pain? the only exotic vet near me doesnt have any appointments or exotic vets in until 9am tomorrow, its 10am now and i dont know if she can go 24hrs without eating. i tried force feeding her critical care but she kept fighting it and i didnt want to stress her out even more. is there anything else i can do to help her? last night she had some broccoli but it wasnt a lot (maybe 1 tablespoon at the most) and she eats that once or twice a week usually with no problems. i dont know what else it couldve been to make her sick but im really worried and i dont know what else to do 🙁 is it possible that she would stop eating because shes mad at me? i clipped her nails last night and i know she hates that, but i dont know if that would cause a rabbit to stop eating or not. i know she was eating hay at around 12am last night, but thats when i went to bed so i dont know if she has ate since then.

 

edit: would it be okay to give her simethicone? how often and how much? she’s just a little bit under 4 pounds

[Bam]

Simethicone is very good, give 1 ml per hour for 3 hours, then less often. If it hasn’t helped in 3 hours, it’s unlikely to make a difference.

Give her a warm waterbottle that she can snuggle up to if she wants to or move away from if she doesn’t want extra warmth.

She hasn’t stopped eating because she’s angry at you, but the upsetness she felt could have caused her gut pH to change and that in turn can cause gas and gastric distress.

It is a good sign when a rabbit fights being force fed, a feisty bun has strenght. The human still needs to keep trying if the bun doesn’t start eating by itself. Whatever you get in her is better than nothing, getting cc on you and furniture and on the bun herself is pretty much par for the course.

Here are some tips on how to do a very light “massage” to help a bun with gas pain:

https://www.howcast.com/videos/514701-how-to-help-a-rabbit-with-gas-pain-pet-rabbits

 

[bumpybunny]

i just watched a video on how to massage her belly, i did that for about 10 minutes and then put her in her litterbox to see if she would do anything, all she did was pee. she kinda pushed her belly down on my hand while i was doing it, i think it felt good to her. she did look a little better for a few minutes, she ran around my room and kept trying to chew on my dresser and ate the pieces she chewed off but when i offered her food she turned her head away. she went in her hideout and ate one small piece of hay that was laying there though. now shes laying down again, i was rubbing her belly and she kept curling her back feet? idk if that means anything but then she got up and now shes sitting in a loaf and grinding her teeth 🙁 my mom went to get some simethicone, i’ll definitely try it thank you so much

[Bam]

If she is grinding her teeth she’s in quite a bit of pain. It was very good that she peed and then hopped around a bit, encourage hopping around if you can (although not by chasing her or anything else that’s stressful).

I dont know if curling her feet mean anything, but if a rabbit doesn’t want their tummy touched they will as a rule let you know. Only massage  very gently. I hope the simethicone will help!

Here is a very good article on GI stasis in rabbits:

GastroIntestinal Stasis: The Silent Killer (miami.edu)

[bumpybunny]

we’re about to give her some simethicone, she finally went and pooped a little, its smaller than normal but its better than nothing. she keeps eating little pieces of cardboard and bedding that shes finding on the floor, but still no other food.

[prince dorian the bun]

Did the simethicone help? I found it usually starts to help with in an hour, especially if you catch it early. Sometimes it took a couple doses though. The stomach massage also really helps in combo. When my bun Dorian molts he’s prone to issues and that combo has really helped. Hand feeding what ever she will eat will help too. I never got to the point of critical care, but did water. Someone once recommended hay tea too. Oddly hay was usually what Dorian would take, maybe realizing it helped him. Hope your bun is feeling better!!

[bumpybunny]

it did help! about 30 minutes after the 2nd dose she started eating some lettuce and hay and seems much more alert and active.

she’s actually molting now, i didnt even think of that but it definitely could be the cause of this since this one was very heavy. i was doing the belly massages but after a while she started grinding her teeth when i would touch her belly so i stopped. she hasnt pooped any more yet but shes eating hay right now and she seems to be feeling much better!! 🙂

[Bam]

I’m glad she seems to be feeling better! Hopefully you’ll soon see more poop! It could be a while though if she has only eaten very little until now

[bumpybunny]

just an update, she has been eating hay and a little bit of lettuce on her own, definitely not as much as she normally does but still a good amount. she pooped a little bit around 4 or 5 hours ago and it’s more the size of her normal poop now and it looks kinda shiny but im assuming thats the simethicone? but she hasnt pooped since then. do you guys think i should keep feeding her the critical care or give her the simethicone anymore? i haven’t for a while now. she’s laying in the corner again right now but doesn’t seem to be in any pain that i can tell. when i gave her her dinner she acted excited for it but when i set the plate down she sniffed it then ran away. i had to hand feed it to her but she did eat most of it (just some romaine lettuce)

[Wick & Fable]

It’s not considered harmful to give simethicone as a preventative, so if you suspect there’s still gas, feel free. If she is eating some hay on her own, I would back down the critical care, but if it’s not a lot, then yes, continue to supplement her small independent eating with some forced critical feeding to ensure she has enough food in her to stay strong.

The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.

[prince dorian the bun]

From my experience it takes Dorian a couple days to go completely back to normal eating habits.  He will however eat hay regularly. I wonder if the greens are just more than their stomach can deal with right after? I do find hand feeding them helps. So what you are describing lines up. I have when it was a bad bout had to give simethecone several days. It’s easier when they are still eating as you can put it on say a thin slice of apple or lettuce. (Try the lettuce 1st)

My vet said pineapple and papaya have enzymes that help digest stuff and break up fur in their stomach a bit. Don’t go crazy as it’s still fruit, but it seemed to help. Last molt no issues… but could also be coincidence. Dorian loves pineapple though so he’s not complaining! I  do have to really monitor his treats though as sugar can throw off their guts. I keep it to no more than a teaspoon, with few exceptions and not every day. (Nail clipping day is an exception)

Hope your bun is feeling all better in no time!

[Wick & Fable]

Just to add, there is debate around the utility of the pineapple and papaya enzymes and the mechanism behind its effectiveness (and whether it is actually effective). You can read some thoughts here: https://wabbitwiki.com/wiki/Health_FAQ#Are_bromelain_from_pineapples_and_papain_from_papayas_effective_at_treating_hairballs_in_rabbits?

The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.

[bumpybunny]

another update on pumpkin, she just got done at the vet and they did x rays but didnt see much gas or anything so they think the simethicone cleared that out. they gave me treatment for her for gi stasis so i have some fluids, cc, and pain meds for her. thank you all for your help i really appreciate it!!

[Bam]

Wonderful! It’s really great to have some GI meds on hand for first aid when there are no available et appointments. A few weeks ago my rabbit came down with sth very similar, it took her about 2 days to get back to normal with the aid of simethicone, meloxicam and pepcid, CC and probiotic paste.. Because it cleared up like that, I think the root cause was heavy molting.

Fingers crossed for Pumpkin’s continued health! 🥰

[bumpybunny]

thank you! im glad she’s better now 🙂

when we got home she pooped (it was smaller and weird shaped but at least its something) and ate a little hay, but then she stayed in her hideout for a while and when i went to get her out to give her some critical care i saw that she peed and was laying in it 🙁 she fought us while giving the cc but now shes not eating the lettuce i gave her afterwards, it could just be that shes stressed now from the cc i dont know, is this normal or could she be getting worse? i gave her a warm water bottle and now shes laying next to it, i had to throw her hideout away and i dont have anything else to give her to hide in sadly, but is there anything else i should do for her that could help her? or should i just leave her alone? im sorry this is my first time dealing with this and im just really scared

[DanaNM]

Stasis can have a lot of ups and downs, it’s important to continue with the supportive care regime until she’s back to normal.

If she is refusing food, then you will need to syringe feed her. Fighting it is good though, it means she’s not feeling too awful.

When was her last dose of pain meds, etc?

It’s good you gave her a warm bottle.

With stasis it is important to not hover too much, but then it also is important to fuss over them a little. She will need to rest, so you don’t want to be waking her up every hour, but checking on her every few hours is good. I know this is contradictory, but the main thing is to make sure you get some food and fluids into her regularly, and keep up with her motility and pain meds. It can take time for everything to respond, but keeping the food going in will help bring things back online.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[bumpybunny]

thank you!! she has started to perk up a bit more, she ate a few small pieces of lettuce and drank some water, then she pooped again! it’s looking a tiny bit bigger than the last ones and some of it looks like 2 pieces together. she acted like she wanted to come out and play so i opened her pen and she hopped around like she usually does for about 5 minutes and now shes laying down.

i was rubbing her belly to try to relieve any gas she might have, and theres one spot thats a bit puffy feeling? i dont know how else to explain it, just a small but long spot if that makes any sense, it may be from the way she’s laying on her side im not too sure but i pushed on it very gently to check if it was hard and it wasnt really, but when i did that i heard a little noise and felt something? she didnt move or anything like she was in pain when it happened so im going to keep massaging it if she’ll let me.

a few times i’ve seen her head shaking a bit like she’s grinding her teeth, but she doesnt get any more pain meds until 10am tomorrow (it’s 9:40pm now). she gets that and fluids every 24 hrs. she got the fluids and pain meds around 10am today. i dont think i’ll give her any more critical care tonight because it’s stressing her out so much to force her, but i will try to see if she will willingly take a little bit. she seems to have just a little bit of her appetite back. but i will definitely be giving her some cc first thing in the morning.

she’s also been eating more little pieces of bedding, aspen shavings, and chew toys rather than regular food?? ive been taking it away from her when i see it, im not sure why she’s doing that but she did it the last time she wasnt feeling good too.

as im writing this she just started grinding her teeth pretty loudly and shes pressing her belly to the floor, so im going to give her more simethicone and hopefully that helps her.

[bumpybunny]

okay so i just tried giving her the simethicone and she freaked out and bit me so i put her back in her pen, and since it’s in my bedroom im going to wake up every few hours to make sure she’s doing alright.

she doesnt seem to be feeling as good anymore, or maybe im just overthinking. im going to try the simethicone one more time, and if she still wont let me then i’ll try again in a few hours.

[DanaNM]

Some vets under-dose metacam, and it tends to be metabolized all within the first 8 hours. You can safely split your normal dose into two and give it every twelve, and I would tell you vet you are seeing a lot signs of pain and ask if you can increase the dose at all (and ask about giving it in 2 doses).

It sounds like she’s having gas pain, so I would keep doing tummy rubs whenever you do syringe feedings.

Chewing on chew toys is OK (at least fiber is going in) but I agree you don’t want her eating tons of bedding. I would keep shoving hay in her face anytime you notice her chewing something else.

Encouraging movement is also good, so if she seems to want to move around, that will help as well!

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[bumpybunny]

so far today she hasnt really showed any signs that she’s in pain even before she got her meloxicam at 10am, but if she does i will call the vet and ask about doing that. she’s getting 1.1 ml every 24 hrs.

she ate a good bit of hay earlier today (compared to what she had been) so i think her appetite is better today, she refused her morning salad at first, but a few hours later she got up and ate it all. she hasnt drank any water but since she’s getting the cc and fluids im guessing she probabaly isn’t thirsty. she’s been resting most of the day, but there are small periods of time when she’ll get up and wanna come out and play, go poop/pee, and eat some. then she goes to rest for a few hours.

she hasnt pooped or peed for probably 3 to 4 hours since i’ve cleaned her litterbox but she’s mostly been resting that whole time. her poop has been slowly getting bigger though! a few pieces were strung together but they were almost as big as it normally is. so far today i’ve fed her 1 tablespoon of critical care mixed with maybe 4? tablespoons of water split into 2 feedings, it’s 4:30pm now and im gonna try not to give her any more for the rest of the day and see if she’ll want to eat more hay.

again thank you so much for your advice, it means a lot!!

[Bam]

What dosage meloxicam is she on? Rabbits have a short small intestine so they tend to need a higher dose of most drugs compared to cats and dogs. As Dana says, you can split the dose in two and give every 12 h instead of once per 24 hours.

Rabbits often like a “roof” of some sort, inte doesnt have to be a house, a chair or a small table will work, and its good you can see her so you dont have to disturb her to check on her. It’s great that she gets a warm waterbottle.

[bumpybunny]

she’s getting 1.1 ml every 24 hrs, if she starts showing any signs of pain today i will definitely call the vet and talk to her about splitting the dose.

her x pen is in my closet, its not a seperate room or closed off or anything but my clothes at the top kinda give a little roof for her. i may try to put a blanket on the top too. im afraid to let her free roam without me in the room now, but when she’s out of her pen she has quite a few little hiding places that she likes to sleep under.

[Bam]

Oh, but then she already has a “roof” of sorts! It’s just an instinct rabbits have, to find a resting spot sheltered from threats from above, primarily birds of prey.

As for the meloxicam, I should’ve asked you what Pumpkin weighs and what strength meloxicam you got. I calculated with a weight of 2 kilos and a strength of 1.5 mg/ml (metacam for dogs), and that gave me a dose of 0.8 mg per kilo bodyweight, which is a good dose for a rabbit. (Normal dose range from 0.3 to 1.5 mg per kilo rabbit and 24 hours).

(This is how I calculated the dose: If you give 1.1 ml of a 1.5 mg/ml strength metacam you get a total of 1.65 mg metacam. Then you divide 1.65 with Pumpkin’s weight in kilos, to see what dose per kilo she is on).

Since meloxicam can be a bit hard on the stomach lining, you could ask your vet about giving pepcid (famotidine) together with the meloxicam. It is a cheap otc med that unfortunately only comes as pills, so you or your vet would need to dissolve it in water to get the right dose. Here’s what Medirabbit says about safe analgesics for rabbits, scroll down to meloxicam:

http://www.medirabbit.com/Safe_medication/Analgesics/safe_analgesics.htm

 

 

 

[bumpybunny]

im not sure what the strength is, but she weighs 3.6 pounds.

i may have already asked this but is it normal that she keeps acting better (eating some, seeming more alert, pooping, etc) and then she’ll start acting worse, refusing to eat for a while and sitting in the corner for hours? it keeps going back and forth. she was doing great earlier today, eating hay and lettuce, i think the last time she ate was no later than 1pm, but now its 7pm and she hasnt eaten or pooped and she has barely moved any. it was like this yesterday too. i’ve been trying not to stress her out too much with the critical care so i’ve been force feeding it to her every 4-6 hours to see if she would start eating on her own and that maybe the cc was making her feel too full to eat.

the vet closes right now at 7pm so im going to wait and call in the morning to ask if i can split up her meloxicam doses. i’ll also ask about it possibly irritating her stomach too.

[bumpybunny]

i forgot to mention that this is her 3rd day dealing with this. its been back and forth like this since the first day, and yesterday morning was when she was brought to the vet and got her medicine and everything.

[Bam]

In terms of GI stasis, 3 days is not extreme in any way. My guess is she gets intermittently gassy and that’s painful for her. Gas follows pretty much any GI problem in a rabbit, and you can give simethicone baby gas drops several times per day, as needed. It’s not taken up by the body, it just acts locally in the gut and gets pooped out. It can’r be accidentally overdosed.  If she gets gassy in the afternoon it rather follows a rabbit’s normal daily activity pattern – rabbits often rest during the afternoon and the intestines don’t move very much (peristalsis is the medical name for smooth muscle movement), so gas could build up and not be able to escape via the rear end. Sometimes you can hearfarting when you give a bun a light massage, but it’s an unobtrusive sound, it’s most often inaudible. You may be able to smell it, though. In any case, to us bun humans, bunny farts are like bunny poop – wonderful.

An alternative to Pepcid is Sucralfate (various brand names such as Andapsin). Andapsin is given 1 hour before meloxicam, because it forms a protective barrier in the stomach. (It’s prescription only though, which makes Pepcid more easily available.)

[bumpybunny]

oops sorry i forgot to respond!

it actually was only happening around the time that she usually naps, so that makes sense. i gave her some gas medicine at that time after my other post and by the 2nd dose she was up and eating again. she is doing much much better, she’s been eating a LOT of hay the last couple days and her poop has gone back to normal! she’s going crazy for her dinner again too lol.

thank you for helping and answering all my questions, as you can tell i worry a lot about pumpkin haha but at least now i’ll know what to expect if this ever happens again!

[DanaNM]

I’m glad she’s doing better!

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[prince dorian the bun]

Hope she keeps improving!

[Bam]

Wonderful news, thank you for the update! Fingers crossed for her continued recovery!

[Author]

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