Re-litter box training w/ bonded pair

[Sugar&Cinnamon]

Hi! My name is Ashley and I’m new here!

A little background: I adopted a pair of 2 year old dwarf mix rabbits in January of 2018. I have a male, Cinni, and a female, Sugar, both about 2 years old according to the rescue, and fixed. I am a first time bunny owner but I do work quite a bit so I figured the bonded pair was a good bet for me. I have a double decker cage attached to an XPen. They stay in the cage while I’m gone and then while I’m home they get playtime in the pen. Some days they get free roam of the living room (under supervision), which I have bunny proofed and set a cat tunnel and some other toys.

They came litter box trained and I have a box in the cage and in the pen. I use yesterday’s news litter with hay and change both pans about every 3-4 days. Cinni is a superb litter box user. He has never had an accident and is very good about making it to the boxes even when he is not close to them. Sugar on the other hand had been trouble. It seems like her litter box habits have been getting continually worse. Thankfully she usually always pees in the box, but the poops are getting out of the control. She is pooping everywhere! It had been over 6 months now so I feel like the “territorial pooping” should be done with. And there are some scattered poops, but a bunch of piles as well, which does not indicate territorial pooping. Also, it’s gotten worse. First I only had poops scattered in the XPen, but now I have also been finding poops scattered in the cage too. I have read the posts on how to take everything out of the cage except for the litter box for 2 weeks in order to re-litter box train them. I have a few issues implementing this. 1- I have super destructive bunnies and they have to have things to chew on, so what can I leave in there for that purpose? And 2- how do I accommodate the pair? I can’t really separate them, so I have to seclude both of them?

Any advice for this situation would be immensely helpful. I am pretty frustrated with the situation. For the past 6 months I have been picking up the poops pretty regularly and putting them in the box. I originally started leaving them in the XPen more, but had to cut back to less them since I can’t keep up with the poops while I’m at work. I was hoping that by being diligent with getting them up she would get the picture. I was thinking of restricting them to one level for a few days and then opening it back up to 2, hoping that they wouldn’t need 2 weeks of being cooped up?

Help!!

[Bunny House]

Hi and congrats on the buns!
It is always adviced to not house buns in cages and they are way too small. They need the minimum of one pen for 1 rabbit and really the size of 2 pens for their regular cage they stay in while you are gone.
I know how annoying it is to have territorial pee and poops. Are there any other animals in the house that she would want to mark for? Do you pick up each poop and put it in the box and then clean up with vinegar and water after the poops are cleared? It would be best to clean after the poops so she can learn to poop in the box. She may also feel insecure and want to poop outside of it. Do you have hides houses? Cardboard boxes are the best because they are cheap and they will destroy them so it can keep them busy a lot of the time, you can even get creative and build a mini mansion with them and they can have a ball in it but also hide there if they get scared.
As said before, I think I know they cage you have and it is way too small for even half of a bun to live there. You need to make the pen their new cage and get rid of the old cage. You can start with 1 pen size and that should make her want to poop in the box as it is a small space. As she does better, make the cage bigger slowly and when she poops outside( more than 20 poops a day) then make the cage smaller and then increase as she gets better. Sometimes girls are sassy and “forget” their litter habits but also she could be telling you she is mad you are spending time with them as much. Is there a way you can make them free roam buns? Also, you may want to check out the tab Bunny Info for more knowledge of buns and I hope I answered all your questions, if not let me know.

[Sugar&Cinnamon]

Bunny house thanks for responding! ??
I’m sorry I know my post was long but I guess I did not come across clearly. The cage they have is definitely not too small. The cage that they have is very large. It has two levels and is over 4 feet tall and 16 square feet of living space. Furthermore, they are only enclosed in that area while I’m at work (about 8 hours a day). The rest of the time they have an attached XPen that consists of TWO dog pens. I leave them out in the pen, with the cage door open while I’m home and through the entire night. Also, most nights they get at least an hour of free roam time (my living & dining & kitchen are bunny proofed, although their pen and cage share half the living room ?). I have a cat maze and a few other homemade toys in my main room. Then between the XPen and the cage I have multiple hidy houses. They have a cardboard maze and tunnel, along with some corrugated cardboard sheets, wooden rattles, willow balls and a willow tunnel. I have a handful of homemade toliet paper roll toys as well as a home made digging box. They also have a hay mat or a straw mat as well (I alternate). They are both crazy chewers so the more options I give them the better.

But anyways back to the litter training. I have not had an issue with pee. It’s just the scatter poops and it is just my female. My boyfriend and I have watched them pretty consistently while they are out and about and it’s always her. Plus I find it weird that her litter box habits have continued to decline. But yes, I pick up the poops and put them in the box and clean the area. I have a spray bottle with vinegar and water. Also recently, I moved to a bigger size box. I had two “large” size cat boxes (my buns are 4 lbs each) and I changed one of the boxes to an “extra large.” Not sure if that will help yet it hasn’t been long enough. I haven’t attempted to limit their space yet I was hoping persistence with picking up the poops would eventually work. I guess my step 1 would be to go down to 1 XPen area and then as litter training improves unfold the other half.

I would sincerely love to have them be free roam but they are entirely too destructive. Without supervision they dig at the carpet and eat baseboards. But they do have tons of space, like I said the two Xpens take up half my living room. And they do get some free roam time daily, just not 24/7.

[Bunny House]

No problem!
Do you have a link to the cage you have? Those two level cages they sell aren’t even good enough size for guinea pigs let alone 1 rabbit.A bunny should live in at least a xpen during cage time. I am happy you do have a lot of toys for them to play with them they are free, sounds like they are spoiled.

So really to get her to be potty trained I suggest going down to a small space but they need to get a new cage and their new cage be the xpen. Once she continues to go in there then you can increase the space she has. Do you have a litter box that has the front cut out so she doesn’t have to jump in it? She might not like to jump in it so she poops outside of it. I know, buns are very destructive.

[Sugar&Cinnamon]

Okay I am really annoyed now. First off, I did NOT go and buy a pet store cage and I do not know why you keep being condescending about the cage. I did my research, I’m not an idiot. Second you are obviously not reading anything that I am writing, so honestly I regret even posting anything.

The cage that I have is a Leith Petwerks DOUBLE decker condo, it is VERY large, 16 square feet of living space to be exact, and 21 inches high each level. Furthermore like I said they are only in that while I’m at work(~8 hours). The other 16 HOURS of the day when I’m home and all night they have TWO LARGE XPENS, as well as their cage (door stays open). Like I stated they have over half of the main room of my apartment. They have no shortage of space. Literally I got rid of one of my couches in order to fit everything.

And yes i have given them litter box options. She doesn’t mind jumping, but one of my high sided ones was a bit to high and I cut that front side down.

[Sugar&Cinnamon]

http://www.petwerks.com/

[Sugar&Cinnamon]

Also I have DWARF rabbits. One is 3 lbs and my girl is like 3.8lbs

[Nutmeg]

Sugar&Cinnamon – that is an AWESOME Cage! Thanks for the picture. I love seeing other people’s set ups!!

As for litter training – I am having the same problem with my Boy – he will even go just beside the litter. I’ve tried adding more than one to give options – which helps sometimes.
I have picked up the outside poops and put them in and cleaned up the pee and put the paper towel with the pee on it IN the litter box… while this worked for my girl it hasn’t fully worked for my boy.
SO maybe you and I can go on this learning journey together! At the very least hopefully my comment will give yours a boost so that others can chime in!

[Nutmeg]

Oh and Mine are Dwarf mixes… not sure if that matters for litter training issues lol

[Bunny House]

Hey, no need to be rude. I was assuming you have a critter nation cage, since I wasnt given the name of the cage you have. There is no reason to be rude to someone who is trying to offer help with limited information, that’s not how opperate on this site and I’m sorry if you felt attacked.

I agree with nutmeg. It seems like a good size of a cage for the time you are gone. Since dwarfs are small buns, that can’t jump over tall obstacles like my New Zealand could ,so offering lower lipped boxes may encourage more use. Also having their hay in the box or above it will also encourage good litter habits.

[Nutmeg]

Posted By Bunny House on 7/18/2018 5:13 PM

 Since dwarfs are small buns, that can’t jump over tall obstacles like my New Zealand could ,so offering lower lipped boxes may encourage more use. Also having their hay in the box or above it will also encourage good litter habits.

My two dwarf buns can clear 3 feet EASILY LOL – so tall obstacles are no problem for my dwarfs…  I wonder if mine is more about being lazy LOL I have hay in the front half of their litter and still all over the place. I have watched him literally go pee RIGHT beside the litter lol – so thinking just lazy for mine. *Face Palm*

Wonder if the original poster finds her bunny’s can jump high too. 

[Sugar&Cinnamon]

Bunny House- Thank you for apologizing. I also apologize for being rude to you. I was frustrated with the focus on their housing situation when I gave dimensions in my first response. I didn’t post which cage I had at first because I was not sure if I was able to advertise products. Nonetheless water under the bridge.
I put some hay in both boxes and have hay racks placed so they have to be in the box to munch. Thankfully they both do super well with pee, it’s just my girl and her crazy poops. I’m really not sure what else to try. Maybe she is just always going to leave a handful of poops around the cage. I’ve seen posts about people and their free roam bunnies. Do they just live with a minimum level of poops not in the box? Or do some rabbits actually always poop in the box?

Nutmeg- mine had an issue with peeing over the sides so I had to get a fairly high sided boxes. Once they realized they got more hay in the bigger box they had no issue jumping in. Plus, I made both boxes XLcat boxes (instead of just larges) and now both buns can fit in together without being on top of each other. And as far as jumping mine are crazy! They can both clear the jump to the couch! I have 36 inch pens just to be safe!

[sarahthegemini]

Hi S&C, that cage looks great and it sounds like they have tons of space for the majority of the time

I might have missed it, but how many litter boxes do you have? Do you have one in their pen as well as one in their cage?

If you wanted to try limiting their space, I would do it a little differently to how you said. You could keep them in the cage for a week (obviously let them out for exercise time) and keep being diligent in putting poops in the litter tray. I don’t think you need to take everything out of the cage. Usually you only need to take out any bedding you might have that’s not in the litter boxes as that can confuse them but it doesn’t sound like they have substrate all over the base of the cage?

My rabbits are free roam and I’d say they’re alllmoost perfect with litter habits *touch wood* They do maybe, 97% of poops in the litter box. I do have to pick some up that go flying as they jump out the trays but there’s only a few they actually do out of the trays (and sometimes that just happens when they move from one litter box to the other lol) So bunnies definitely CAN be better with litter habits. Can they be perfect? I’m not sure but they can be pretty close. So do persist. I know you’ve been persisting for ages already but there’s got to be a light at the end of the tunnel!

[Sugar&Cinnamon]

Sarah- I have 2 litter boxes, one in the cage and one in the playpen.
But I am still not having luck. I confined them to the cage for 2 weeks with literally nothing in the cage except the box and their food/water bowls, and some cardboard to help them jump into the litter box (cause the floor is plasticish) and things improved. So I gave them their carpet back and started slowly giving them more space. Like only being in the pen when I’m home and then in the cage while I’m at work. Then after only a few days it’s worse again. With today being the worst! I came home from work today and there were poops all over the cage. No pee thankfully but pee has never been their issue. I’m not talking a few that got spewed out, but like thirty poops, all in piles around the cage. I don’t know what I’m doing wrong or why their litter box habits would suddenly go to the $*&!ter. But idk what else to do. I really don’t want to confine them again because they get so bored and they have so many toys in the playpen. How do I effectively give them exercise/playtime, while still making it clear they are not getting access to their playpen 24/7 because of bad litter habits. As of tonight I confined them again. ? My frustration is started to get to my whits end.

[sarahthegemini]

I can understand your frustration It does sound like territorial poops but I’m as confused as you – I’d have thought they’d have stopped by now. In which case I don’t think confining them again will help but I’m not sure what else you could do. I hope somebody else can chime in with some tips. It must be infuriating

[Sugar&Cinnamon]

How do I confine them and give them enough exercise time?

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