Re-bonding after major surgery

[Katreal]

Hi, I’m new to the forum, although I’ve perused it often enough when looking for bunny answers, but I seem to have stumbled onto a problem I’m not sure how to solve. I have two boys, Luna and ceres. Both neutered, both bonded and living together since they were born (brothers from the same litter) and nigh inseparable until the worst happened.

Ceres (who is the dominant one) had to have an emergency major surgery a couple weeks ago due to a liver torsion. This resulted in not only an extended hospitalization, but also required separation and medication once he came home. I kept them in easy smelling and sight distance, but now that Ceres is healed enough (and the post op visit gave me the okay to reduce the isolation) to handle any potential tiffs that might happen upon reuniting, it seems like Luna has grown to enjoy his space being his own.

It’s really weird. They are perfectly well behaved and happy when introduced in neutral settings like on my bed or in a carrier or in the bath tub. They’ll be grooming each other or lie down next to each other and everything like nothing happened.no mounting or disputing dominance or anything. But if I let Ceres go in the exercise pen where they both normally live, it’s circling behavior and little squealy grunts from Luna, as well as aggressive mounting. Ceres is totally unconcerned until Luna insists on the mounting behavior and then both sides are into it. I really want to be able to reintigrate them because it isn’t fair to keep Ceres cooped up in the small area now that he’s healed, but if they refuse to work out their differences in a neutral space, how can I address the obvious dominance issue short of rearranging my room entirely to dismantle any territory that exists?

For the record, I’m unconcerned about a fight causing injury. Luna is toothless and ceres doesn’t seem to want to fight back or feel he needs to. I’m mostly worried about an extensive mounting battle would end up aggregating ceres’ incision even if it’s nicely healed.

Sorry for the walls of text I just don’t know what to do.

[DanaNM]

Hi there,

I think you prob just moved a bit too fast because they were doing so well in neutral. How long have you been working with them in neutral space? Also, have you been doing “pre-bonding”- swapping who’s on what side or in what cage? This should be done for several weeks, and will really help them lose track of who’s territory is who’s and will help them get used to their scents again.

I’m guessing they need more time in neutral, and a slower transition to their shared living quarters by moving to a semi-neutral space. It’s also helpful to completely clean and rearrange their permanent space so it seems more neutral.

The bathtub or the bed isn’t really practical for longer sessions, but would your bathroom be pretty neutral? I would start by having some really long sessions in that space and see how they do. If they are doing well, try for overnight or a couple day straight in that neutral space. The move them together to semi-neutral and repeat. The exact strategy kind of depends on what space you have to work with and the time you have to supervise.

Once they are doing well in semi (and they may back track a little, that’s OK), you can clean and rearrange their shared living space, and move them in together. Then supervise there until they are good.

As a side note, some mounting may be necessary for them to sort out their dominance again. So some should be allowed. You can stop it if it’s escalating to a point where you think one will get hurt. I like to kind of pin both buns down and pet both until they calm down in that case.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Katreal]

I did wonder if I was going too fast. I was pretty spoiled in that I didn’t need to bond them the first time, they pretty much came that way! I did research, especially when we got a new bunny in the apartment last year (they never see her but I guess they could smell her) and ceres started acting more territorial, but things settled so quickly it might have given me an unrealistic sense of time about it.

I’ve only been working at reintroducing again for the last few days, I was hoping that since they were doing so well, and nothing happened when Luna was separated over his dental surgery, it would be a quick transition. Alas it twas not to be.

I didn’t know about the pre bonding swapping, but that sounds like a great idea! It also gives Ceres a chance to enjoy the larger pen for a while. I did completely clean out the pen last night, but there isn’t much space to rearrange it right now. I do hope to downsize some furniture in the near future, and once I manage that, I can build an entirely new space for them so maybe that’ll help.

I don’t know if the bathroom would be a good overnight space (I’d be worried about them attempting to jump the toilet and the tub side from the floor. It’s a really small area do it would be difficult to block it off properly ) but I might be able to take them down to my parent’s for a day in the next week or two. That’d be An hour of stress bonding and then an entirely neutral space overnight. I’ll try and continue with the sessions in the tub until then (the last one yesterday lasted a good three hours and Luna flopped so much it makes me think he actually likes being in there!) while swapping the living spaces each night.

I wouldn’t worry so much about the mounting if they would just… Do it somewhere else. But no they act all friendly, there’s no need for this nonsense, when in any space other than the living area. Only the living area is the one that causes circling behaviors .

Thank you for responding so much! I love my boys and was really fretting about this. Knowing that maybe I was just being a tad too impatient I’d a bit of a relief.

[DanaNM]

You’re parents place sounds like a great option.

I think in your position, I would do pre-bonding for at least 2 weeks, and keep up the sessions in neutral space since they are doing well in those. Try to make them as long as you can (within reason.. I know bathtubs are not practical for very long sessions….). Lol when I bonded in my bathroom I would close them in, close the toilet, and fill the tub with pillows. The I would sit in the tub and watch work/watch movies on my laptop. Fun times!

Then I would go for the marathon at your parent’s place, as you mentioned.

When you get to the point where you are ready to try to move them in together, you’ll want to clean any hard surfaces with a white vinegar-water mix to neutralize odors, and just try to make it look different. Move the locations of bowls and litter boxes, rearrange levels if they have a condo, really anything you can do to make it less familiar. Any soft blankets should be replaced with new ones, or at least washed and rearranged, remove any toys, clean dishes, and really really clean the litter box (a completely new litter box is ideal). Sprinkle baking soda on the carpets and vacuum.

I have a hunch that with pre-bonding + marathon in neutral + completely cleaning and rearranging their shared space that you will have a much easier time moving them back in together, given how well they are doing in the bath tub.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Katreal]

Oh I hadn’t heard the baking soda trick! I’ll keep it in mind. I’m definitely doing the swapping thing and Continued tub bonding at least one a day for an hour (three over the weekend) until I can take them down to my parents. (might actually extend that trip and take them over to the hospital on the way, I need to drop off the extra and used needles from the penicillin shot. That was so not fun. )

Ceres’ last medication was this morning so hopefully any residual weird smells will go away soon. I wish I could attach a photo, because they are so dang unconcerned about being together right now in the tub xD

[DanaNM]

Haha glad they are getting on in the tub!

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Katreal]

Two weeks later and I wanted to give an update! My boys are getting along great. There wasn’t a single hitch when they were together at my parent’s, and in fact they were super affectionate. It makes me wonder if once the territory part was taken out of the way Luna realized he actually missed having Ceres around. They made it through 24hrs without a single incident, and then once I got home I threw out all the cardboard and cleaned everything else I could. It’s been several days (almost a week) and things have largely gone back to normal! They aren’t quite as attached at the hip as they were in the unfamiliar territory, but there’s been absolutely no fighting or even dominance behavior.

In fact I’m rather pleased about the whole situation because I think the separation made them both bond with *me* a bit more and that’s pretty great XD Before they were a little squirrelly and didn’t much care to be petted unless I had food. Now I’ve been getting demands to pet them via sticking their heads under my hands.

[DanaNM]

That’s wonderful! So glad things are working out!

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

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