Rabbit Diarrhea HELP!!!!

[cs]

Hi all,

So my bunny stopped eating about a week ago. He would pick up a piece of hay and turn it around in his mouth for 10-15 minutes then drop it. This came out of nowhere, he was happy and healthy in the morning and by the afternoon he was acting weird. I am almost positive it’s a teeth issue. I took him to the vet the very next day and he said that his front teeth look fine but he would need to sedate him to see his back teeth. I read some horror stories about bunnies being sedated and never waking up so I decided to make an appointment with a top bunny doctor and not return to the vet that we went to. The appointment is in the next two days but he has completely stopped eating recently. No pellets, no treats, nothing. I am keeping him on critical care and metoclopramide three times a day. I am also force feeding him water as he is not drinking. He is not active and got a poopy butt. My question is when on critical care, isn’t the poop supposed to be runny since its so diluted? He wouldn’t be producing small round droppings, correct?  Thanks to all of you!

[Bam]

A bun on Critical Care is not supposed to have runny poop. The water in the mixed CC works like drinking water. Buns on Critical Care often don’t drink. The CC powder is high in dietary fiber and will become round poop and cecals in the gut. If your bun eats nothing but CC, you need to make sure he gets enough. Here is some info from Oxbow, with a dosage chart: https://www.oxbowaustralia.com/critical-care-information-for-pet-owners/

It is common in gi-stasis buns though that there is a disturbance in the gut microbial flora, causing sticky poop. Sticky poop is not considered true diarrhea.

 

[LBJ10]

Bunnies on Critical Care should not have watery poop. As Bam said, they can get sticky poop though.

[cs]

The poop is also very large — like mud piles. It comes out in huge chunks and it almost looks like dog poop. It’s also misshaped and smells awful. His bottom is understandably very dirty afterwards and he does his best to clean himself. This is such a contrast from his regular round golden balls.

[cs]

He is eating pretty much only Critical Care. There’s nothing solid in his diet like hay so I assumed the poop is fitting since it’s so soft going in. I dilute it with more water since he hates it and spits it out so it’s very watery.

Here is a photo of the poop for those that want to see. Sorry if it’s TMI.

Imgur: The magic of the Internet

 

[LBJ10]

Looks like a bunch of mushy cecotropes to me.

[cs]

It’s not though. This is how ALL of his poop looks.

[LBJ10]

Cecal dysbiosis can present this way. Sometimes you won’t see much of what resembles “regular” poop.

[Bam]

It has to do with a disturbance in the gut microbiota, i e all the various bacteria and yeasts (funghi) that the rabbit gut is highly dependant on for it’s proper function. This disturbance could be at the root of his appetite loss, or it could be an effect of the gi stasis. This is not uncommon in rabbits that are being treated for GI-stasis, but it is if course very important that he gets back to eating by himself, especially hay. Hopefully your vet will be able to find out what is wrong with him.

[cs]

Thank you both so much. I am 95% it is teeth because of how he twisted and dangled the hay in his mouth and then drop it. Also, when I would rub the back of his cheeks he would flinch. Does the disturbance of the gut start the same way where he stops eating hay out of the blue? How is this treated and prevented from happening?

[Bam]

The disturbance can happen for many reasons, for example stress. It doesnt have to be “severe” stress. Stress changes the pH in the cecum, and the microbes in the cecum are dependant on a fairly stable pH. Pain (of any origin, f ex tooth/mouth pain)  is of course a stressor.

The best way to get the GI tract back into good working order is through hay. It’s not a quick fix though, it can take many weeks for the gut to reestablish a sturdy and diverse microbiota. Since your bun cant eat hay right now, Critical Care is the next best thing for now. Sticky poop is not fatal, but it obviously isnt nice for the bun or for you. It’s uncomfortable and the yuckiness of the poop prevents him from eating his own cecals.

Probiotics can help normalize the tummy microbiota. There are special types for rabbits nowadays, but might be difficult to come by depending on where you are located. Many bun owners use Benebac for small pets.

[cs]

It ended up being disturbance of the gut but I did not start out like that. I have the appointment today and will let you guys know what the diagnosis is. Thank you again!

[Bam]

We’ll be very happy for updates!

[cs]

I am back with an update. This second vet checked his teeth (incisors and molars) and said they look normal. They do not know what’s wrong with him. There was a small cut or lesion in his mouth but it’s probably from me poking him with the syringe 20 times a day. I don’t think this is why he won’t eat hay. They suggested full body and head x-rays and complete bloodwork to figure out what’s bothering him. I doubt he even needs body x-rays because the problem starts in his mouth and I know he was in stasis because of it. And would bloodwork show teeth infections below the gumline? I was positive it was his teeth. I don’t know what to do because all of this together is a 4 figure bill.

In the meantime, I got prescribed painkillers and probiotics for him which made a huge difference. He started eating, drinking and being much happier overall. He still refuses to eat hay. Tries though. Picks it up, twists it around and drops it. I took him off critical care once we got home because he is eating on his own and I am sick of torturing him. Now he is on probiotics, Metoclopramide and Metacam. Any suggestions on what the issue may be?

[Bam]

Bloodworks could reveal inflammatory/infectious markers. They check white blood cells and immunoglobulines.

That said, his good response to pain relief could hold a key to what is wrong. How old is your bun?

It’s not very likely that syringe feeding would cause a sore in his mouth, plus you wouldnt have had to syringe feed him if he hadnt presented with inappetence.

I had a bun that refused to eat, but the vets couldnt see anything wrong with his teeth. After 3 weeks of syringe feeding they eventually decided to do a molar burr. He recovered in a cpl of days and started to eat like normal.

If your bun is eating hay again now, it could be enough to wear down small spurs. I had (another) bun that wore down his small spurs with the aid of fresh grass (he refused hay). (If you try fresh grass, make sure its from a pesicide-free area that isnt inhabited by raccoons. Start with very small amounts).

Hopefully the metacam and probiotics (and metoclopramide) will help so he can eat and get healthy again.

[cs]

Out of curiosity, why can’t a rabbit eat grass that may be inhabited by raccoons?

[cs]

He is a year and 4 months. He is NOT eating hay. He is eating everything else. I will get him fresh grass.

From what they are telling me, his molars are fine. Could there be something wrong below the gumline or an issue that they are not seeing? How hard can this be?

[DanaNM]

Did they sedate him to look at his teeth or do dental x-rays? It’s very hard/impossible to see a rabbit’s back molars without anesthesia.

Have his poops improved?

 

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[cs]

They did not sedate him or do x-rays. The vet checked as far back in his mouth as possible with a speculum, said did not see any issues.

The poop improved a lot. Here’s a photo: Imgur: The magic of the Internet

[DanaNM]

Poops look much better!

I think that full x-rays (including his head) are a good idea. Sometimes gastric pain (such as gas) can mimic dental pain, because the bun just isn’t feeling very hungry. But since he’s eating everything else AND they saw that laceration in his mouth it really does sound like a dental issue. It really is very hard for them to see the back molars (there are 24 molars!) without sedation or x-rays. There can also be tooth root issues that you may not be able to see without x-rays.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[cs]

Could a young bunny have such severe dental issues? Also, I have to mention that his diet is 90% 1st cut (coarse) hay so his teeth should be nicely filed regularly. Are there any other issues besides dental that come to minds as to why this is happening? Thank you guys so much, I really appreciate it. It’s so helpful to get answers from experienced owners and not greedy vets.

[Bam]

The poops really do look a lot better!

1 year and 4 months is a bit young for full blown dental root issues, but it could happen. Does he have a very flat face? Flat faced buns are a lot more prone due to the limited space in the oral cavity.

[cs]

He is kind of flat faced 🙂  Imgur: The magic of the Internet

Do these rabbits typically have such problematic teeth?

[Bam]

He’s adorable! Yes, lops can have problems with ears, nose (runny eyes, stuffed nose, blocked tear ducts) and teeth. Problems usually dont present until the bun is middle-aged though.

Did they look at his ears? Ear problems can cause pain when the bun chews, since the jaws are so very close to the ears.

[cs]

Thank you, I think so too 🙂 They did do a pretty thorough check up but come to think of it, I do not remember his ears being looked at. What problems do lops typically have that result in this?

[DanaNM]

Yeah, I was just thinking of my poor bun Moose who had very serious dental issues and he was only 2 years old. So it can happen! But hopefully it’s just a tiny molar spur that they couldn’t see in the regular exam. That seems much more likely to me!

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Bam]

Lops are prone to ear infections, just like down-ears dogs. Air simply cant circulate and they’ve very narrow outer ear canals. This means wax and debris can build up in the ear canal and possibly pool underneath the ear bases.

You could perhaps gently feel under his ears for a lump. If you find a lump or/and he responds with a pain reflex, it could be an indication of a problem.

If the problem is detected before there’s involvement of the middle ear (the part of the ear inside the ear drum), it’s often manageable with regular ear rinses.

Hopefully this is just the odd molar spur though. Fresh grass could help grind it down. Again, start with tiny amounts/day, although if you’re in the Northern hemisphere, grass isn’t very rich this time of year. Spring grass is though, so that’s sth to keep in mind.

[cs]

Let’s say it’s an ear problem. Would that mean a rabbit is unable to eat hay specifically and not other hard vegetables like brussel sprouts and carrots?

[Bam]

It could because hay is tough and needs quite a bit of chewing. The musculus masseter (chewing muscle) runs very close to the ear.

However, metacam, which is an anti- inflammatory NSAID, could very well subdue any pain and inflammation so that in 1-2 weeks he’ll be quite fine again.

 

[cs]

Yay!! I really hope so. The thing is, I was told to only give him the Metacam and probiotics for 4 days. Does that seem normal? I almost feel like the vet wants me to come back with a suffering bunny and spend thousands of dollars. Should I just keep giving him the meds for a couple of weeks? Will there be any side effects long term? Sorry for all the questions and THANK YOU!

[Bam]

There is a point to just giving the pet metacam for like 1-2 weeks, then stop. We did that with our dog, on our vet’s orders. It was to see if the problems came back after a week or so off the antiinflammatory. In her case, the problems (pain due to severe back disc degeneration) did come back, so she was put on long term NSAiD.

Its quite fine to keep a bun om metacam long term. The problem is that meloxicam (active substance in metacam) is prescription only in the US. (Might vary between states though).

If you dont trust your vet you could try searching for another one. I dont have a good rabbit vet in my area, but for non-emergencies, I’ve found the drive worthwhile.

[DanaNM]

You wouldn’t want to keep a bun on metacam long term without diagnosing the cause of the pain, because it could be masking a problem. The rational for a short term dose would be if a gut slowdown or gas pain was suspected, or something else that may clear up in a bit of time. If there was a very tiny molar spur, I suppose the bun could chew more normally with pain management and grind it down, but that is unusual. But for buns with chronic issues like arthritis, long term metacam is very common.

For the record, X Rays should not cost thousands of dollars. Every time I’ve had a bun need xrays it was between $150 -300 total. A dental filing is around the same price for an uncomplicated case. Some vets will just schedule the bun for a filing if a dental issue is suspected (without an x ray first) because the anesthesia lets them get a good look to see what’s going on.

 

 

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[cs]

I wouldn’t keep him on Metacam long term, hence is why I asked if it would be problematic to even keep him on it a couple of weeks.

They wanted to do 4 x-rays: 2 of the head and 2 of the body. Each ranged from $150 – $200. Plus, bloodwork was OVER $200. There were other fees that I didn’t even understand. This is not treating him, this is just trying to find out what’s wrong. I already paid $300 for examining him and the meds which the vets always charge more for. Treatment, whether its sedation with filing the molars or anything else is obviously many more hundreds of dollars. That is why in summary, it is thousands. I am in New York City by the way.

If he does not get better, I am debating between having him sedated and going with the head x-rays. Most likely, I will proceed with the x-rays because they show more and it’s more comforting to me since they don’t have to unnecessarily sedate him.

[LBJ10]

Pain in the sinuses can make a bunny not want to chew hard things. Back to the dental issue theory, if tooth roots are growing into the sinus cavity then it could discourage the bunny from anything the involves a lot of chewing.

[Author]

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