Questions on bonding quartet

[Bunny House]

I recently posted this post and have gotten great answers but I also have new questions:

“I apologize for the long post that is coming haha.

I have two pairs of bunnies (Male and female in a pair, all fixed). So I got them all  while ago and tried to  bond but messed up since not all of them were fixed. Now all of them have been fixed for awhile now so all the hormones should be gone. Short story- I have tried bonding them all multiple times but have given up shortly after since the males fight to the death no matter if I stress bond or what. I have their pens within a couple of feet of eachother and in the past have had them within a couple of inches but of course they spray and poop by the perimeter. So I have tried stress bonding with all of them and for what ever reason the boys will fight, not mounting, I mean one of the buns has had some pretty good chunks of hair pulled out and lacerations on his body. This has caused him to lash out if he thinks he is going to be bitten. The other bun will lash out at him starting the fights. I have also tried to separately bond the males by themselves but still fighting. I always have them by each other and pet their heads and have them on leashes incase I can’t physically pull them apart when a fight breaks out when bonding. As soon as I stop petting, one will bite the other. I am honestly so tired and upset at how the two boys bond.I just want to cry, I really need them to all be able to bond so I don’t have pens all in my house. I bond in neutral territories and use a spray bottle and broom to break up the fights before the happen. I wish one of them would just mount each other but they won’t, they just want to fight and they also go for around the eye area which is terrifying. The girls get scared as soon as one of the boys start to fight and run away, so I am not sure if the two girls like each other or not.

I feel like I am giving up because no matter what, they boys fight, I don’t know if its a territory or a protecting his girlfriend thing but I don’t know what else to do. Does anyone have good suggestions they have used on their male bunnies?”

my other questions: Hey guys, so I know in the past, when I put the pairs in the other’s house, they will dig, pee and poop all over. Is that normal when the housing gets switched?  
And then when they go back to their house, they act all normal and don’t mark it. 
Should I switch them once a day and keep the blankets there for a couple of days and then wash them so they have time to be in that pen multiple times to smell the other buns? 
Will the marking fade and when they actually all 4 have a date, they shouldn’t all want to kill each other? 
Ive had a stuffed animal in each pen to get the others smell in it and then I put it in the other’s pen and they don’t care about the animal but the real animal they want to kill. I Don’t know if there are secrets that has made bonding a quartet work with difficult buns.

Thank you in advance

[Sirius&Luna]

The anger, peeing and pooping when you swap is normal, and is actually good, because it means that they’re taking out the anger at the smell of the other bunny in a safe way. If you continue to do this, hopefully you will see a reduction in this aggressive behaviour.

Yes, clean less than usual so they have the chance to smell the other bunnies used pen, and can go back to theirs and smell the other bunny in it.

Some bunnies like stuffed animals, others ignore them.

All of that said, it is deeply worrying that the males have been allowed to give each other deep lacerations. It is very likely that they’ll remember that, and refuse to bond. When you’re bonding, it is your job to be ready to intervene immediately and prevent rabbits from getting hurt. Of course, sometimes fights happen quickly and unexpectedly, but it shouldn’t be allowed to happen repeatedly. It’s also very dangerous to pull them apart with leashes. They could get tangled or break their backs that way. You should be wearing thick leather gloves and be prepared to stick your hands in and physically separate them. I have a scar from being bitten by one of my bunnies but I would far rather it was on me than the other bunny.

I would stop prebonding and keep them totally separate for a couple of months. Then spend a LONG time prebonding, before doing some very slow and involved work with the boys. Like keep your hand between them at all times, but let them get used to being in the same space without fighting.

[Bunny House]

Thank you
Okay, so do I leave the pee and poop on the fleece until I wash them or do I immediately clean it up? (marking pee always smells so bad)

The boys, literally, I blink and one lashes out and usually will bite the side of their face as it is the closet thing to them, So I started to hold them just far enough away from each other during bonding, but the only times they got the lacerations is when one of the boys escapes his pen ( still have no idea how he even did it, I keep trying to keep it bunny escape proof but he still gets out). I would usually put their heads together and rub them at the same time and then immediately separate them after some time so they have no time to bite and have a good memory of being rubbed next to each other. They have also been separated for a couple of months now so I will do the prebonding and hopefully that works.

When the pre bond is over, what should I do to work with the boys?

Is stress bonding a good idea or should it just be like 5 minutes together rubbing their heads and then slowly increase after there is no aggression being shown?I have read that when one wants to bite the other that you are not supposed to completely separate them since it shows that when one bites that it will make the other one go away so he gets what he wants, and that you should separate and then put them back together so they are forced to be with each other side by side.

And should I work on just the boys and then the girls separately or should I work all 4 together since I know the boys are wanting to protect their territory and their females ( of course all bonding in neutral territory)

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