Questions about the big snip…

[hooty22]

HELLO GANG!! I know I’ve been MIA for a few months. Working 40 hours a week on top of studying for the bar exam will do that to a person.

Anyway, as most of you know, I live with Felony,  my darling almost 3  year old lionhead. Well…. I never got him fixed. From my research, it seemed that there wasn’t too much of a difference in health when it came to male rabbits (as compared to ovarian cancer rates in intact females), and he’s never humped anything, ever. His litter habits are near perfect, and he isn’t aggresive or territorial.

Well, my boyfriend thinks we need to get him trimmed up down south if ya know what I’m saying, because, well, he says you just get pets fixed. I on the other hand don’t want to expose him needlessly to anethesia and surgery when it seems relatively pointless to me bc he’s the only bunny for which I have space.

So, I’m just trying to get some opinions from my trusted house bunny friends.

Am I in the wrong?

[Sarita]

Hooty, you put up a good argument – I bet you are going to be a great lawyer.

I think it is true that the health issues for females are far greater than for males although testicular cancer is more rare in males, it certainly is a possibility.

I guess one question I have for you are you ever in the future going to consider getting Felony a friend in the future.

I think you have been probably lucky that Felony is well behaved as well.

I have done rescue work and it’s just ingrained in me that spaying and neutering is the responsible thing to do and I also don’t want to take any chances in contributing in any way to the overpopulation of rabbits.

I’ve never feared that the exposure to anesthesia and surgery would be needless in this case and I always felt the risks outweighed the benefits. I would suggest though that if you (hopefully) decide to get Felony neutered that you should do bloodwork and a full health work-up prior to the surgery. Also find (if you don’t already have) an experienced rabbit experienced vet.

[KatnipCrzy]

There are still some risks of reproductive cancer in male rabbits- they just are not as high as in a female rabbit.

Also, if you think you EVER might get another rabbit in Felony’s lifetime- it would be best to neuter him now.  When you are talking about an adult bunny- the younger the bunny the better able their body should be to handle anesthesia.  And maybe you won’t “plan” on getting another bunny- but what if you were presented with a rescue that needed a home and you feel in love with?  It might be extremely difficult to bond Felony unless he is fixed- and it could bring out more male behaviors that you are not seeing now.

My husband can’t wait until Griffin gets neutered because he has a musky smell at times that I think is because he is still intact (even though he is only 3 months old).  None of our female bunnies or Schroeder (already neuterd) had this musky, yucky smell.

But with all that being said- my friends have a house bunny that someone gave to them and Buster is an intact Netherland Dwarf, 7 years old and does very well- but they know that they can not/should not even consider getting another bunny.  And I know other members have had previous house bunnies that were not spayed or neutered- like Spockie and Baby- but I know that their current bunnies ARE spayed- Samantha and Pinky.

I get what your significant other is saying…….. I believe that spaying and neutering is the thing to do. 

[Scooter]

I’ve heard often, including from our breeder, that it wasn’t neccesary to neuter males as long as they were your only pet.

I would have to disagree, if only it makes the stinky smell go away!

We haven’t had any problems with Bunners marking, or being agressive or territorial. lol, he’s too much of a momma’s boy.

But I’m definitely going to get him neutered just to be safe and leave my options open for the future. His 11+ year lifespan is going to be a long time for me to only have 1 bun or pet.

[sibley]

I like that his name is Felony. Trial attorney?

Scooter has a good point… you’ve got something like 7 more years where he’ll be your only bun.

But also consider the changes in his personality… it’s unlikely to make him less-chill, but perhaps he will become a lazy couchpotatobunnybutt.

[Sarita]

Neutering does not make rabbits less active – age makes them less active.

[katie, max & penny]

i agree with sarita- max got MORE active after his neuter. So did Penny!

Clarification: not more active in a naughty way. just more binkies and zooms.

[Jenna, Chubs & Comet]

I have also noticed that occasional musky smell in Comet- and it’s icky. Chubs was neutered when we got him and he has never smelled like anything but cilantro and cellery  I’m looking forward to that sweet smell in Comet after surgery.

But I understand your fears! I feel better after speaking with my vet and after his exam but I am still nervous for the 12th! I don’t think I will really feel better until it’s over and done and he’s munching his hay and veggies again!

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

I just plain and simple spay and neuter everythig that comes my way (Look out DAVE!!!).

Their aren’t as many health risks for males but they DO exist. I’d say chat with your vet, perhaps doing blood panel first will ease your fears about the anestetic risk and you can decide

[Beka27]

You are very lucky to not have any behavioral problems/littertraining issues/odors/humping with him! He is definitely the exception.

I would also encourage you to neuter him now b/c the truth is… you don’t know what life will present you with over his lifetime. He is still young enough now that he should go thru surgery with flying colors (it is generally easier on the boys anyways). Many buns, especially in rescue situations, never get neutered until they are already a few years old and they finally find their way to a responsible shelter. It is your decision of course, and with males the cancer risk is not as high, so I guess I could see you going either way with this.

[Scooter]

Here’s a question… has anyone’s human hormones (pregnancy, etc) ever effected their bun’s hormones? I’ve heard of dogs going into heat, but I’m just curious.

[jerseygirl]

You had mentioned before that he wasn’t fixed but I guess I just forgot – I just wouldn’t have picked it. He obviously has been a great little guy. I can so understand your “if it aint broke, don’t fix it” thought here. In your shoes, after 3 years, I think I’d leave him be also……..BUT

then I have got to thinking…*roll eyes*

A way (weigh) you could look at this dilemma is like this. Look at the risks associated with the surgery as compared to the risks at leaving him intact. All possible scenarios. I would like to say “don’t choose not to get him fixed based on fear” but then I think – wasn’t it fear that had me getting Jersey spayed asap? I read about cancer risks and the decision was pretty much made. Admittedly, I didn’t look into surgery risks, I just blindly trusted my vet. Point is, fear is involved but it is worth investigating whether it is fact-based or stemming from something else.

If part of your fear is your sense of responsibility for him, it get’s tricky. If you decided he has the snip and there were complications (God forbid) and something happened to him during or post surgery, you would feel awful right? Feel responsible/guilty? OK. You leave him intact, and at some point he develops a condition that may have been avoided if he had been neutered (God forbid). Would you then feel responsible/guilty?
See my point? These are possible scenarios and consequences of desicions we make – but we can only be in control of their well being to a certain degree. So, try make the decision based in fact but let instinct (not fear) guide you also. I don’t know if any of this helps – I’m the worst decision maker so maybe I should have kept my input out – lol.

Hope you get some clarity on this, whatever you decide.

[Balefulregards]

Jackson was noticeably smellier/muskier than Coco ever was – I had her for about 2 months before her spay. I got Jackson the Day of his neuter, as the rescue likes to do the neuter,then send them home with the new family to recover.

As to their recovery times, Jackson looked pretty good right after. Coco looked like death warmed over for days – but a females spay is a harder surgery. His neuter was fast and clean and healed beautifully.

You are lucky to not have the “male” traits – I only saw the after effects of his receding hormones and ARGH – he was a terror. He would knock down barrier to get at Coco ( who is spayed, but he would try to jump on her) – He would spray urine. Two months later, he is a much more relaxed fella – in general – and his musky smell died down in about 2 weeks post neuter.

Its funny – I have always had it in my head that ALL pets MUST be spayed or neutered…I never even considered them Not being spayed or neutered…..

[hooty22]

Yeah, my boyfriend has that mentality of all pets should be fixed. I have that mentality for most animals, I just never really saw the need for Felony though. If he would have been difficult litter training, or if he would have humped everything in sight, I would have probably have gone through with it. He just has a WONDERFUL peronsality, and is very lovey, and is trained to come for treats, and to go into his pen for the night and to use his litter. It’s just a difficult decision to come to because Felony is like our son and we are on different sides of a pretty balanced scale.

[Sarita]

So, does Felony look more like you or your boyfriend? Since he’s like your son that is :~)

Let us know what you decide. He does sound like you could not have gotten a more perfect bunny.

[hooty22]

We Felony is a bit of a diva, so I’d say he takes after his dad…

[Desma]

My Hunny Bunny is supposed to be a mini lop but now she is a “humogolop”!! Fixing her made her huge! The breeder I got her from come over to visit me a few weeks ago. She hadn’t seen her except for pictures and videos and didn’t realize how huge she actually got from being fixed. I am thinking of getting a Netherland dward male bunny later on when they are born and have been thinking and wondering about getting him fixed. If his behavior is fine and his habits as good as what you say they are, I would be inclined to not bother fixing him.

[Sarita]

Altering your rabbit does not make them huge – it may slow down their metabolism so you will need to get the rabbit more active and make some modifications in their diet.

[hooty22]

Well Felony is by no means the rule.
I was prepared to get him fixed once he was old enough, but he just never became a terror which is common with most of our other members.

[Desma]

That is odd!? The breeder I got Hunny Bunny from could not believe her size and said it must have had to do with my getting her spayed, otherwise, she does have papers that she is a mini lop and her parents are so much smaller!! I got her specifically because of her going to be so small but it turned out that she is huge! I don’t care of course. I love her so much that it don’t matter anyhow. She is about ten pounds which is huge for a mini lop. She is in wonderful health and the vet said she is one of the most good natured sweet bunnies she has ever handled. Even my grandchildren can hold her like a baby and she loves kids because the breeder allowed her small children to help with handling the baby rabbits when they were born and she even had an Australian Sheperd be a nanny to the bunnies and Hunny is not afraid of dogs either if they come into the house. Sorry, to change the subject. I wonder why she is so big? She is not overweight or fat either. I call her the “humongolop”. I just joined this group by the way and I really love it. This is the best rabbit group that I have found. I have been looking for a good one for ages.

[Sarita]

I honestly cannot tell you why she is larger than a mini lop but I know if you asked your vet he/she will tell that spaying and neutering does not cause your pet to become fat and lazy which is certainly does not sound like your bunny is anyway and altering certainly couldn’t cause them to increase in size either. I don’t know why the breeder would say this either.

The important thing anyway is that you love her :~)

Welcome to you too.

[Beka27]

I agree that the whole “neutering makes a pet fat and lazy” thing is not an absolutely true statement. It may appear that way but some of it will be due to natural mellowing as the pet passes the more active, younger (teenager) stage. A rabbit who is trying to hump or spray anything in its path, will seem more active than a rabbit who is continually calm and content. Rabbits, altered or not, are not always on the go. They have their playtimes where they will run around, binky, explore, and chew/dig… and their calmer times of rest. Both of our rabbits are altered and neither are fat or lazy.

Another way this can be misunderstood is that a rabbit (or any animal) that is kept in a small area for the majority of its lifetime will gain weight and not be able to exercise to keep lean. You may look in your rabbit’s cage and you’ll see that he or she is just sitting around. This has less to do with the rabbit and more to do with the lack of stimulation and interaction. FORTUNATELY, this is not usually a problem with us devoted house rabbit lovers b/c we make it a priority to exercise and play with our rabbits daily. You will see this a lot in hutch rabbits or rabbits who are acquired FOR children who lose interest quickly.

I might have just gone off on a big tangent, but my main point is that many generalizations made about rabbits are not entirely true. I believe this is one of them.

[Beka27]

And welcome Desma! Chances are your lop is not a purebred mini lop, regardless of what the papers say. Purebred rabbits are not as strictly regulated as with dog breeds. This happens frequently where somewhere down the line rabbits get cross-bred (sometimes on purpose to “improve the line”) and those characteristics sneak up here and there in the future generations. As long as she is healthy, not overweight and exercises regularly (and your vet is not concerned!) I would say she is just a big bun. That’s cool tho! More to love! ;o)

[Jenna, Chubs & Comet]

I can attest to this! Me and Kc are not convinced that Comet is a purebred Holland Lop, even though that’s what we were told. She said that she had pedigree for him but we weren’t really interested in it, since breed doesn’t really matter to us. Chubs looks more like the pictures of the breed, while Comet has a much flatter face and is bigger than the average Holland Lop (not so much in weight but in length, etc). He and Chubs are supposedly the same breed but we see a lot of differences in the two. It doesn’t matter at all to us, but we’re pretty convinced he’s a mix breed of some kind…somewhere in his lines.

[KatnipCrzy]

If Hunny Bunny is not fat or overweight and is 10lbs naturally- spaying would NOT have anything to do with her size.  If fact it would potentially work the opposite by fixing a pet and reducing the hormones you can see a difference in male cats- huge jowls, and in male dogs theoritically their heads can be wider due to hormones.

I can not think of a single medical reason that spaying or neutering could make a pet larger-  they can have a change in metabolism without hormomes running so rampant in their system- but that is easily managed by House Rabbit Society diet recommendations.

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

Desma-First Mini lops are actually quite big -compared to other lops. Holland lops (commonly labelled mini lops in pet stores-because people like mini things) are about 1/2 the size.

It doesn’t surprise me that the breeder claims she should be smaller-my guess, if you wanted her to be a big bun, the breeder might have said she’s surprised she didn’t get bigger

Spaying and Neutering will *not* make an animal grow larger AT ALL. That’s predetermined by genetics. It will not make them fat. It will make them calmer, and in the case that an unneutered male is constantly going crazy humping things-he may burn calories but he’s also going crazy….spaying and neutering will calm them but they still need exercise and things to do.

Animals get fat for the same reason we do-becasue they are getting more calories then they are burning.
Animals get big for the same reason that we do-because our parents are big. Size is not based on being spayed or neutered.

[jerseygirl]

Welcome Desma! I have to agree, spaying wouldn’t have made her a bigger size. Good thing it’s not weight that makes her bigger too. The parents were pure mini lops? Perhaps one is only 1/2 or 3/4 mini lop? I wonder if sometimes there just are the odd larger ones in a litter? The mini lop is (I think, i think) a dwarfed version of the french lop. Maybe sometimes they come out more French like that Mini ? Lol

Sorry Hooty, for going so off topic…

[skunklionshow]

We attempted to neuter Leo 3 times.  After the 2nd time we had the conversation w/ our vet that maybe I shouldn’t bother w/ neutering him.  Here’s how I came to my decision:

Rabbits, male & female, are more prone to mammary tumors.  This is not a female only thing.  Granted it is more common in females than males, it’s my understanding that the risk outweighs the risk of anesthesia problems.  Leo was also always a great male rabbit.  No problems w/ litterbox and spraying….no aggression…always a sweet pea. 

Also, my ex was a vet nurse.  He was always depressed by people who’s pets developed any type of cancer that could have been avoided completely by speutering.  I always remember this and had been present when people were told that their cherished pet developed testicular cancer.  Especially when they learned that neutering could have voided this diagnosis.

Those 2 things made it more of a risk to me to not neuter him.  I’m happy to say that the third time was the charm and he came out like a champ.  I don’t regreat my decision at all.  Gosh…you are a clever [almost] lawyer

[MooBunnay]

I have always neutered and spayed all of my bunnies in order first to keep them healthy, and second to make sure that the only increases in bunny population in my house are due to my bun adoptions Based on the other responses, it sounds like Hooty may still have some health benefits from being neutered. I do agree, that if you think you may ever have to get Hooty neutered, its probably better to do it sooner rather than later, and maybe you’d want to get him a friend later.

Desma – what kind of diet did the breeder recommend to you? Maybe that has something to do with your bunny’s weight gain. And how much exercise does she get each day?

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