Possible dental issue in senior rabbit

[HesaBadBunny]

Hi everyone,

Please excuse the really anxious overtone of my message. I know that a vet visit is always the best route and I do have a rabbit savvy vet to call.

My 8 year old Mini Rex (will be 9 in 7 months) recently switched up his eating habits. He regularly ate Oxbow Timothy Hay pellets or Garden Select pellets as his main pellet source. He has always had access to ample hay. I have provided him things to chew on (sticks and wooden toys) but he seemed disinterested in them. As well, he loves his cookies – such as the freeze dried fruit or the “cookie” hearts made by Oxbow. I have tried “to do the right thing” knowing about rabbit dental care but sometimes genetics and age catch up.

In the last couple of weeks, I noticed he has gone off his regular pellets. I know that they are not the best quality but I bought a small portion of the generic bulk pellets at the pet store to mix in with his regular food to see if he would eat those. Basically, I wanted to determine whether he was completely off pellets or just the Oxbow. He ate the generic kind, but not with his “dish throwing” gusto as he usual enjoys his pellets. Mostly, he has switched to eating only hay.

As well, he is disinterested in his cookies. Usually, he has very excited bounces and can’t wait to have a treat. He still loves soft bananas.

I noticed before the changes became obvious that his teeth “squeeked” when he ate hay as well he softly grinded them in his sleep. Like, little “chomp chomp chomp” sounds. So, I think the issues rests with his teeth. More than usual, he has been chewing on wooden furniture, cardboard, and rubber doorstops (obviously I shoo him away from the rubber!)

I’ve had bunnies for 20 years (approx) so I know that they hide all sorts of things. So, I looked for other signs of “what could be wrong with his teeth” – he does not have leaky eyes, he does not drool or have “significant” wetness around his mouth (it is kinda sorta very little moist), His activity levels are normal, he is grooming, and pooping well.

The point of all me sharing this is that I am petrified to take him to the vet for his teeth. I know that nothing will happen at the first examination, but I am so scared if my bunny needs to be sedated or have anesthesia. All I can think about is him not waking up and I will be shattered.

Logically I know I have to resolve the problem for him because I do not want him to fall ill or be in pain. That would be so selfish of me to avoid a vet visit because I am worried about my own fears. The vet always gives warning about anesthesia (my last bunny had a lot of procedures) and bunnies not waking up, but he was obviously a different case/situation.

Not sure what I am asking for …Advice? Experiences? I am at work and a nervous wreck over this. Thank you all.

[Bam]

It does sound like it could be his teeth. It’s quite, quite possible to do everything right and the bun still develops molar spurs when it gets old. It’s great that he’s still eating hay!

I’d say go to the vet sooner rather than later, and preferably before he stops eating (which a rabbit is highly likely to do if it has dental pain -it doesnt even have to be “bad” dental pain). If it is his teeth, you want to stop it from getting worse. If you nip it in the bud chances are good a simple burr could set things straight again. As you are fully aware, overgrown teeth can cause really bad problems down the line.

If he’s in good shape, sedation shouldnt be a big issue for him even if he is a senior. Rabbit vets have special protocols for sedating buns +5 years. They must of course always caution the bun owner about the risk,  because full anesthesia can never be 100% risk free. But a simple dental burr doesn’t take a long time, so the bun will only be under for a v short time, which minimizes the risk of hypothermia.

Stock up on some Critical Care and ask the vet for a prescription for meloxicam to give him for a cpl of days when he comes back home.

I know what you mean about being a nervous wreck about having to have your bun put under. I feel it too with mine. I honestly think most dedicated bun caretakers do. They’re such fragile little creatures and we love them so much.

 

[Wick & Fable]

I agree that going sooner would be best. He is still eating and there are no obvious signs of significant decline, so I’d encourage you to remind yourself of that as you sit in worry — he’s not in any sort of immediate danger.

In the future (or now?), you can also try giving CC in lieu of investing in a bag of different pellets– CC is nutritionally balanced, in addition to having the needed fiber, so it is a nice quality alternative if there are concerns about lack of nutrition/fiber in a less enthusiastic rabbit. You can also bake CC in cookies too.

The refocusing to non-food chew objects also is encouraging of a vet visit. Perhaps there’s a mild discomfort somewhere, unrelated to dental. A general exam, and potentially x ray may be helpful in case there may be some early arthritic discomfort expressing as less enthusiasm in general.

The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.

[HesaBadBunny]

Hello and thank you for the replies.

Apologies for the double.

I called yesterday and the vet is getting him in tomorrow for a general exam. Starting to feel a little worried because his ears are cooler than usual (not cold, just cooler) which I know is a sign he is not feeling his best. So, I need to keep him eating and hydrated until then.

I must say that he attacked (as in ate excitedly and voraciously) a soft piece of banana. Will let you know the plan of action tomorrow. Send prayers and good wishes for my little guy!

[DanaNM]

Can you try offering him pellet mash? Or critical care or some other recovery food? If his mouth is hurting but he’s still hungry he will likely eat it on his own and it will help keep his strength up.

It’s not uncommon for buns to need a dental burring at some point as they age as their bone density shifts a bit. Usually the procedure is quite quick and I agree that 8 isn’t so old that I would be worried.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[HesaBadBunny]

Hi again – so my bun is booked for a dental procedure on Monday. I am a nervous wreck, but it has to be done! He will be sedated but as I understood it, it will be like “twilight anesthesia.”

Picked him up some Critical Care and need to finely chop up his hay.

Please send good vibes to him! I love him so much!

[Bam]

((((Good dental vibes))))

Twilight anesthesia sounds like a great option!

I have cut up hay in a kitchen bowl with normal scissors. Don’t use your best scissors, hay and grass ruin scissor blades. You can also soften hay with some water or steam to make it easier to chew.

[HesaBadBunny]

My bun had his dental procedure today and he is home in one piece (though very uncomfortable and grumpy!)

Critical Care, antibiotics, and painkillers are all on schedule now. He is still sleepy from the painkiller shot and who could blame him!

His teeth already sound better though another tooth is up for further investigation. Awaiting feedback on that later.

It seems like it will be a few days before he is back “feeding himself” or just regular eating but glad this was dealt with quickly.

Thank you!

[Bam]

Happy to hear he’s back home with you! Thank you for the update!

It can take a couple of days for him to get back to eating properly again, the antibiotics might also temporarily subdue his appetite.

[HesaBadBunny]

Thank you for that advice!

I need to remind myself that 1. he is on antibiotics 2. his tongue has a cut 3. he has bruising on his cheek as to why he is not eating yet. Have to admit though, it scares me, though I know he needs time to become comfortable to eat!

Do you have a timeframe where I should become concerned? The vet said to call if there are any concerns and we have a follow-up appointment early next week.

[Bam]

I’d say you should see improvement over the next few days. How kong it takes  depends not only on the severity of the problem but also on how long there has been a problem. One of my buns went 4 weeks before my vets decided he probably needed a burr although his spurs were super tiny. It then took him 5 days to get back to normal eating. I think he couldve been afraid that eating certain things would hurt. After 5 days he was as good as new though!

Anyway, if your bun isnt eating like he should, you will need to syringe him CC a cpl times/day, so he doesnt run out of energy or falls into stasis because of an empty GI tract.

Its great that you have a follow-up appt booked! By early next week he should have perked up considerably.

[HesaBadBunny]

Thank you for your reply and thoughts!

Yes, most certainly, I am feeding him Critical Care throughout the day (and night) and he is mostly his vibrant self. He is strong as I can feel his strength when he pushes me away during feedings!

Still, he is not back on his regular diet. I wonder if the cut to his tongue as well as bruise on his cheek is the major contributor. Yesterday, he ate two small nibbles of hay and he same thing this morning.

I have to admit that I am still concerned though. When he eats his day, there is still the sound of “teeth scratching” (like small nails on a chalkboard?). To me, this is not normal because I never really heard this before, only during the bad periods of his teeth, before they were done. Maybe I never really paid attention though! Should be I concerned about this? Also, he makes the same sound during syringe feeding, when he “chews” it and swallows it.

The vet did x-rays so he knew what he had to do but I am just getting a bit worried that something was missed or needed to be done. Personally, I wouldn’t put him under any twilight anesthesia again so soon (if something needed to be done) because he isn’t fully recovered yet at all. Still giving painkillers and antibiotics. I know it takes time but seeing my little friend not 100% is breaking my heart.

And oh! He is chewing on one of his wooden toys, but that is more of a front teeth thing, and the vet said those are perfectly fine. It was fun to see him play with it though!

[Bam]

It’s great that he has the energy and enthusiasm to chew a chew toy! Chewing a chew toy is indeed a front teeth thing, its hay eating that requires the sideways motion and necessary grinding of the molars. The squeaky sound probably means there’s still some uneveness, but I know from experience  that minor uneveness can be ground down if the bun eats more hay and/or grass. My bun Bam had minor molar uneveness that his rabbit vet thought was fixable by upping the amount of fresh grass he got (he mostly refused hay all his life). A few months later, his teeth were x-rayed again and deemed fine 🙂

It’s very good of course that he fights you. It’s inconvenient for you, but a feisty bun is a strong bun.

As for the tongue sore, your vet will take a look at it again on your follow up visit. Most tongue sores will heal fast and well once the spurs are removed, but theres always a slight possibility that complications occur.

[HesaBadBunny]

Sigh…

Unfortunately, the lack of eating, even though I have fed him Critical Care around the clock, seems to be turning into GI stasis. Taking him into the vet this morning.

While I have kept feeding him, I gave him the benefit of the doubt to “feel better” in 3-4 days, but his change is droppings led me to call the vet.

I feel as though I have failed him in some way.

[Bam]

It sounds like a wise thing to do, esp since the weekend is coming up. He might need some sub q fluids, a bit higher dose pain meds and perhaps a motility drug (for example metoclopramide). There’s an appetite-stimulating med called  Mirtazapin (originally a human anti-depressant that is now also used to stimulate appetite in pets).

 

[jerseygirl]

Hoping for news that he’s doing better. (((get-well-soon-bun)))

[HesaBadBunny]

Hi again and thanks for the well wishes!

The vet said that my bun was not in stasis but he needed to be fed more and less often. So, a full syringe of food every 6 hours, as bunny needs time to rest too. I am under the impression that a lot of filing was done because the vet said my bunny still needed time to rest to recover.

I have provided him with a variety of greens to try to convince him into eating. As usual, he could take or leave them. Red leaf lettuce, parsley, dandelion leaves (from the green grocer so not worried about pesticides outside), mint and dill. I went to different shops trying to find a bunch of carrots with greens and it seems like most cut all the floof off now. I found a bunch with some greenery.

Well, wouldn’t you know, as I was showing him what I bought for him, he showed interest in the actual carrot. He took 2 big bites of the carrot. I was kind of shocked. He will not touch his pellets but ate bits of hard carrot. He chewed it a lot more than usual and it was a lot slower (owning to his sore mouth) but he ate it. No squeak sounds, no grinding sounds, just regular eating. So there is that good news. What a little stinker!

For a minute I thought that he “forgot” how to eat on his own!

He isn’t in the best moods, but I suspect being force fed is a part of it.

[Bam]

Oh, great that he wasn’t in actual stasis! And that he found the carrot just too delicious to resist 😃 Wonderful that there were no squeeky chewing sounds!

Rabbits do need their rest, my rabbit vet always says not to do syringe feeding during the night for this reason. The amount of CC a rabbit needs per day can definitely seem staggering at first. I had a tiny bun (1.5 kilos) who for a while relied totally on CC, he needed about 90-100 ml per day, divided up into 5 or 6 feedings. A rabbit stomach holds about 20 ml. The first time I was told to give him a full 20 ml syringe with CC I was like 😱

Fingers crossed he’ll keep improving!

 

[HesaBadBunny]

Thank you for your reply!

I didn’t know that about not doing syringe feedings at night! (I was doing them.) And now I am worried that by doing them that I caused some kind of setback. 🙁

He is really confusing me at this point. Yesterday, he ate bites of carrot so I KNOW he can eat/chew. Not even 12 hours later, he shows no interest. The day before, he ate parsley on his own. Since then, he has shown no interest. I went out to buy even more types of greens and there is no interest.

Prior to the vet visit on Friday, he nibbled at hay. Now? No interest.

I have stepped up with his CC feedings. He is going back to the vet tomorrow. I am wondering if there is a need to pull blood now and look into it.

Truly, I hope that he is not “giving up” and ready to “move on”. Right now, he is in a gated area, and he just sits there. Not particularly hunched, but not moving around either. All I wants to do is groom himself.

Sigh.

[DanaNM]

Is he still on pain meds?

Sometimes they are good indicator as to whether it’s ongoing tooth pain or something else. If you see an improvement with the pain meds, then my guess would be his teeth are still sensitive. If not, then maybe he’s dealing with some GI issues from all the stress or something else. (of course pain meds can help with pain from other conditions too though).

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[HesaBadBunny]

Hello!

He is on 0.2 ml of Metacam 1x per day. It is to be taken with food. He is another week with this dose.

Today, I had him nibbling on some carrot again. No interest in anything else. I’ve also started to syringe some extra water into him.

I am in agreement with your suggestions. I think there is still some pain there and probably a bit of GI stasis going on. I smelled what I think was a fart of his (by his hutch and no fresh poop) and it smelled dreadful.

[Bam]

What strenght metacam and how much does he weigh? This is relevant because dosage of meloxicam (active substance in metacam) is calculated in mg per kilo body weight. Medirabbit (trusted source) says 0.3-06 mg per kilo body weight per 24 hours for mild to moderate pain (see picture). Rabbits metabolize meloxicam quickly, so a 2 kilo bun needs at least as much as a 10 kilo dog per 24 hours.

http://www.medirabbit.com/Safe_medication/Analgesics/safe_analgesics.htm

[HesaBadBunny]

Hi again,

For strength, he is on the 1.5mg/ml and he weights (at last check) 1.58 kg. (3.4 – 3.5 lbs)

It seems like he is a smidge under medicated and seemingly still feeling in pain.

[Bam]

It does seem he’s a tad under-dosed. Here”s a metacam calculator: http://vgr1.com/metacam/calc1/detailcalc.php

It’s often beneficial to divide the daily dose up in 2 instead of one big dose per 24 hours. Rabbits metabolize meloxicam quickly. Their small inestine is comparatively short (most drugs sre taken up inte small intestine). My bun Vilde was in severe dental pain for a while, and needed 1.2 mg/kilo body weight twice daily for quite some time, as per my rabbit vet’s advice. As Medirabbit says, meloxicam is well tolerated by buns even for prolonged use.  (Its pretty much like ibuprofen for humans).

ETA: I didnt know either about not doing feedings during the night until my rabbit vet explicitly told me not to.

[HesaBadBunny]

Hello again – thank you so much for the advice and meticam calculator. Definitely will raise this with the vet re: dosage and timing.

Vet appointment tomorrow cannot come soon enough. 😥

He has strength and he is very steady on his feet when he grooms himself. It is this anorexia that is breaking my heart and making me extremely worried. If it simply comes down to ongoing pain, and it can be helped, I would be so relieved. Sigh. 😥

[Bam]

Strenght and steadiness is actually great. Grooming himself is also great. The anorexua could be due to the antibiotics.

There are other pain meds than meloxicam nowadays. There’s one called maropitant thats increasly being used in buns just these last cpl of years. There’s also metamizole (brand name Novalgin) that my Vilde got. They can be combined with meloxicam.

Pain management is extremely important f buns, they are pain sensitive as a species.

[HesaBadBunny]

Hello again –

The last few days have been a whirlwind. He went to the vet and stayed there for general observation and investigation.

 

There is nothing wrong with the bun and pain has been pinpointed as the cause. Even with his painkillers increased, I have been told that it is not uncommon for some rabbits to take a little more time than usual to get back to eating normally.

 

My bun has began to eat some hay and greens on his own but needs to still be supplemented with CC. He continues to be off his pellets and the vet suggested I try a different kind. Still no interest!

[Author]

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