Please Help

[Nara mk]

First of all I’ve taken my rabbit to the vet and we are currently in the middle of treatment, but because the vet isn’t experienced with rabbits that much I’m making sure in other ways. The information all over the internet is helpful but not specific.

So on Tuesday at 9:30 pm my Ruvik was acting weird right before our visit to the vet (a follow up for her head tilt). She was running all over the room unable to sit in a single position for more than a few seconds, and when she tries to lie down she pushes her belly to the floor as much as she could, I filmed her and rushed to the vet. The doctor saw the video and did a physical exam, said she can’t feel anything in her stomach and maybe she was nervous. She wouldn’t X-ray her. We went back home and the running around stopped but pushing her belly continued. Her stools were few in the previous two days but by then it stopped. She didn’t want to eat or drink.

On Wednesday around 6 am she started eating herbs (parsley and cilantro) and in the noon she pooped her last two normal-sized poops, they were dry. I rushed to the doctor again around 1 pm with said stools, she did another physical exam and said that she could feel nothing. She massaged her belly and it was making a few sounds, and told me she is gassy with GI stasis. Again, no X-ray. She gave her a motility drug and Metacam. Back at home she’s acting better, running around and eating, she stopped moving when the pain killer wore off.

Now it’s Thursday, her stomach feels a bit bloated, she started grooming herself again, but her teeth grinding is more frequent and harder from pain.

What’s worrying me is this: Was the doctor correct with her assessment and prescription? I’m worried it might be intestinal blockage and the motility drug is making it worse. She poops after I massage her (dry and misshapen) and urinates a little, today she actually woke up wanting food, and she started drinking water after I added a few of her favorite pellets to them. I will give her some Simethicone and see what happens.

So what I want know is this:

Should I go back for an X-ray even after she ate and drank and got the motility drug?

Do rabbits poop in a intestinal blockage? Because I’m not sure if it’s GI stasis or a blockage, even though the vet said it wasn’t a blockage

[Azerane]

You are correct that it is hard to rule out a blockage without an x-ray. GI-stasis is not a condition itself, but a symptom, so she has GI-stasis, whether it’s a result of gas, a blockage or another underlying cause is tough to determine, especially without an x-ray to rule out a blockage. I have never had a vet perform an x-ray to check for a blockage on a stasis visit, but in those cases I also never had a reason to believe there was a blockage (nothing abnormal eaten in terms of cardboard or blankets etc). If she is showing improvement today with eating and pooping etc, I would hold off unless she deteriorates again. If she is improving after a simple case of gas, putting her under anaesthetic or sedation for an x-ray nay only slow recovery. Rabbits can still poop with an intestinal blockage if it’s not a complete blockage, but I don’t know too much more about it having never had a rabbit with a blockage, except for extra large fur poops during a shed which have backed things up a bit for half a day.

I understand the behaviour you are describing perfectly, and have seen it a lot with gas, but also with other abdominal pain (ruptured organ). At the end of the day, you know your rabbit best. Certainly give her the simethicone as it’s not harmful to be used as a precaution, encourage hay eating and drinking. If you still think she isn’t improving and there is something else going on then by all means make another appointment for an x-ray. Perhaps ask the vet why they have been reluctant to do one or why they think one isn’t needed. Better to cover all bases, than miss something and have it be too late.

[Nara mk]

Thank you so much, I will hold off the X-ray for now since she’s eating on her own accord, drinking when prompted, moving a little bit and even though her stools are few and far apart, they are looking more consistent and not as dry. And I think I just saw her eat a grape poop straight from the bum lol 

I do have a reason to suspect a blockage, she tore off some carpet fabric two days prior to Tuesday (She doesn’t usually do this, I think there was something on the carpet that she liked) Also she ate some bird feed off the floor even though I had swept it (Could this be the reason she’s gassy? I forgot to mention this to the doctor)

I’ve asked the doctor several times why she won’t do an X-ray, even though I told her the cost doesn’t matter. First time for the head tilt, she said an infection would not show through an X-ray. Second time, she said that Ruvik wasn’t flinching during the physical exam and there’s no need for it. Third time when I told her about the carpet thing, she said it would only show her bones and metals and that she would not see any carpet fibers. So that’s that.

But I know she’ll do it if I insist.
I’ll see if I can get more Metacam for the pain. Meanwhile, I read somewhere that I could give her Aspirin Child tablet (with specific instructions of course), does anyone know if it’s safe?

[vanessa]

Stay away from aspirin. It isn’t tested – the dosage is derived from other mammal use. Aspirin is also not as effective as Metacam. You need to give a rabbit a LOT of apirin for it to be effective, because of how they metabolize it. Personally – I have tried aspirin. Only because Lancelot is old, sick, and basically on bunny hospice care. But Metacam really works better. While Metacam and Aspirin can both cause kidney failure, Metacam is studied a lot more, and we know how small the risk is. Aspirin is a huge unknown.
Is there any specific reason you are worried about a blockage?
It does sound reasonable to me that your vet didn’t want to do an X-ray for those reasons. I have struggled myself to get an X-ray for Lancelot, but X-ray are really best for hard tissue like bone.
It sounds to me like your bunny got gas for some reason, hence pushing the belly to the ground, it hurts, and she got anxious about it. Are you out of Metacam? Since you heard belly sounds – I would try unflavored baby simethicone. Not sure which country you are in – but I buy it OTC at my local grocery store. Lancelot gets 1cc with dinner and breakfast at the moment, because ehe has been off his food, and his belly has been sounding. Gas pain can lead to stasis. Like Azerane said. So if it is indeed gas – you might want to look at her diet. Did she eat anything different, anything in larger quantities than normal? Or smaller quantities than normal? Gas can be caused by a bacterial imbalance. In Lancelot’s case – I dont’ know what causes the gas – I just treat it when I see it. Simethicone, and offering him his favorite veggies, and syringe feeding when necessary. He eats a lot better after a dose of simethicone. It’s cheap, you can do it without waiting for a vet appointment, and it is usually very effective. Meddirabbit says something like 1cc every hour for 3 hours, then 1 cc every 4-8 hours. Something of the sort.

[Nara mk]

I gave her Simethicone some hours ago, had her running around, massaged her abdomen and she’s pooping. Not back to normal size yet but each time the droppings increase, and it doesn’t seem like she’s having much pain. I’m following the directions provided here: http://rabbit.org/gastrointestinal-…-killer-2/

The doctor gave Ruvik one shot of Metacam yesterday, but I won’t get more now that she’s feeling better. Now I’m thinking what could be the cause of all this.

Also I’m wondering when do I stop giving her Simethicon? 

[vanessa]

That’s a good article. Personally, I give Lancelot simethicone until his poops are the right size, then I skip a dose and see if he still eats. If he still eats and his poops stay the right size, I stop the simethicone. Do also want to listen to the belly. But Lancelot’s gas sometimes gets “stuck”, and doesn’t make belly sounds until I pick him up, put him on his side, or move him in some way, which makes the gas move, and then I heat the rumbles. Since I diaper him and express his bladder – lately I have been lifting up his back legs while I express his bladder, so that his belly is at or just above the top of his head, and at the same time – the gas moves and he farts!
As for the cause – it is sometimes hard to tell. The article covers a number of possible causes. I can’t always tell what caused Lancelot’s gas. It might be his teeth, which make him eat less, and an empty stomach develops gas, and then the microflora get out of whack, which perpetuates the gas, which makes him not want to eat. It’s quite a cycle. I would look at his diet and see if anything was suspect during the preceding week. Sometimes we just never figure it out…

[Azerane]

I’m glad to hear that she is still improving, that’s really good, the simethicone should have helped. I would continue with the simethicone for at least a full day. A little bit of extended use won’t do any harm either if you give it longer than needed.

It may have been the bird seeds that started the gas episode, once it gets out of balance just that little bit, it can spiral very easily even if there’s no more access to the original cause of the gas. Have you fed anything else different lately, a new green, more of a particular green than normal? Extra treats, etc? It can be tough to figure out the cause and sometimes it’s not always clear, but it’s good to be aware just in case you can prevent it from happening again

[Nara mk]

I tried it out, the day she got Simethicone she was pooping great, like 25-30 stools per time and more than twice a day (yes I counted them lol) but then I gave her less like in the article and she completely stopped. I bumped the dose up again and she’s doing better, so I’ll keep at it until she starts pooping without me urging her.

Also she is still not drinking water from her bowl, and I was wondering if it’s normal? and what can I do to get her to drink more? Currently she’s getting her liquids from the veggies I keep drenched in water when I give it to her but I know she should be drinking more. I tired giving her Pedialyte but she ran away, then kicked and bit and threw the bowl away so that’s out of the question lol

[vanessa]

Water is really important to prevent stasis. I flavor Lancelots water to encourage him to drink. I use a Tbsp water ot V-8 veggie juice. Wile rabbits do drink less water when they are eating lots of veggies, they need about 10% of their body weight a day – in water. So veggies are helpful, but… If flavoring the water doesn’t work, you might have to syringe feed water. I woudl still flavor it, to make it easier for your bunny to accept the syringe Hopefuly it doens’t come to that – I’v had to do it with Lancelot. DO you have Benebac or some other suitable rabit probiotic? That helps too. It would still be great to narow down what caused it, and unfortunately – every bunny is different – so what causes it for one bunny, may not cause it for another. This might be a case where – you know your bunny – and you learn with esperience what causes her to have gas. It might have been the bird seed. How much did she eat? What type of bird seed? Millet? Sunflower? bird pellets?

[Nara mk]

Posted By vanessa on 6/09/2017 11:06 PM

Water is really important to prevent stasis. I flavor Lancelots water to encourage him to drink. I use a Tbsp water ot V-8 veggie juice. Wile rabbits do drink less water when they are eating lots of veggies, they need about 10% of their body weight a day – in water. So veggies are helpful, but… If flavoring the water doesn’t work, you might have to syringe feed water. I woudl still flavor it, to make it easier for your bunny to accept the syringe Hopefuly it doens’t come to that – I’v had to do it with Lancelot. DO you have Benebac or some other suitable rabit probiotic? That helps too. It would still be great to narow down what caused it, and unfortunately – every bunny is different – so what causes it for one bunny, may not cause it for another. This might be a case where – you know your bunny – and you learn with esperience what causes her to have gas. It might have been the bird seed. How much did she eat? What type of bird seed? Millet? Sunflower? bird pellets?

We don’t have V8 where I live so I might look for a replacement or another way to flavor her water, I tried to syringe feed her but she refuses it, and I don’t want to stress her too much. I can barely give her Simethicon when she’s lying down on her side because it’s a thick suspension and only like two drops (I squirt it in her mouth, she gets up surprised and swallows it) but other than that, it’s impossible to syringe feed her anything. Also, I don’t have any probiotic because I didn’t know she needed it! Do I have to ask the vet for it?

As for the reason, she did eat both millet and sunflower but it was tiny amounts. Now that I think about it, I did give her celery leaves for the first time three or four days before. But it was gradual and at the time she didn’t seem sick. My other bun Hazel ate some too, but I know every rabbit’s different.

[Bam]

Any dietary change can cause gas/a tummy disturbance. Celery leaves agree with my bun, but as you’re saying, all buns are different. When you feed celery stalks it’s important to chop them up into inch long pieces (but hold off on all celery for now, of course).

A probiotic can often be bought in a pet store. The most commonly available one for small pets is probably Benebac. There are other brands depending on what country you are in. Some probiotics for dogs can work, but they tend to be flavored with beef or liver, and a bunny might not be happy about that.

You can add unsweetened apple juice to the water to make her drink more, but serve “plain” water in a separate bowl as well, because some buns refuse to drink at all if sth has been added to their water.

[Nara mk]

Posted By bam on 6/10/2017 4:39 PM

Any dietary change can cause gas/a tummy disturbance. Celery leaves agree with my bun, but as you’re saying, all buns are different. When you feed celery stalks it’s important to chop them up into inch long pieces (but hold off on all celery for now, of course).

A probiotic can often be bought in a pet store. The most commonly available one for small pets is probably Benebac. There are other brands depending on what country you are in. Some probiotics for dogs can work, but they tend to be flavored with beef or liver, and a bunny might not be happy about that.

You can add unsweetened apple juice to the water to make her drink more, but serve “plain” water in a separate bowl as well, because some buns refuse to drink at all if sth has been added to their water.

Yeah no more celery leaves, and no pellets either. I now give her: cilantro, parsley, romaine lettuce, cucumber, and mint. She’s eating Timothy hay unmixed with other types of hay, even though she used to ignore it.

I hope I find the probiotic either in shops or at the vet, because ordering it online will take way too long >< 

I was getting worried about this article: Disorders of the Cecum, since its symptoms are similar to GI Stasis and because Ruvik wasn’t drinking any water. But then I added some watermelon juice to the bowl and she drank some! I was so relieved (or do you guys think it was bad to add watermelon? :/ ) . If only we had a rabbit-savvy vet around here 

[jerseygirl]

The watermelon juice would be fine, especially if it got her drinking.

Regarding probiotics, I have one that is sold for birds. It comes as a powder. You can also just get some tablets or powder from health food store like Lactobacillus acidophilus. It’s not a natural species in the rabbit gut but is thought to help create an environment in which the good natural bacteria can proliferate. Some health food shops have powdered probiotics in the fridge section too, that might be worth a look.

[vanessa]

I think u r on the right track. Gi issues dont resolve overnight. Keep pushing the water. Dehydrated bunnies often wont drink… It is very good that she is eating hay.

[Nara mk]

Posted By jerseygirl on 6/10/2017 10:37 PM

The watermelon juice would be fine, especially if it got her drinking.

Regarding probiotics, I have one that is sold for birds. It comes as a powder. You can also just get some tablets or powder from health food store like Lactobacillus acidophilus. It’s not a natural species in the rabbit gut but is thought to help create an environment in which the good natural bacteria can proliferate. Some health food shops have powdered probiotics in the fridge section too, that might be worth a look.

Oh thank god, because apparently watermelon is the only fruit/veggie that enticed her to drink, she drank approx 200 ml today (she weighs 3.5 kg) and I’m super ecstatic! I’m trying other “flavors” of course, with her plain water bowl available as well.

Veterinary bird products are easy to find around here, I will definitely look into what types of probiotic are available and which are safe for rabbits. Thank you so much 

[Nara mk]

Posted By vanessa on 6/10/2017 11:32 PM

I think u r on the right track. Gi issues dont resolve overnight. Keep pushing the water. Dehydrated bunnies often wont drink… It is very good that she is eating hay.

Vanessa, there’s no way I could thank you enough for all the help you’ve given me! Sending hugs and kisses and everything nice your way <3

Yes, I definitely will!

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