Playing? Or trying to kill each other?!

[Veronica Vigilant]

Hi, this is my first time posting, although I’ve been lurking for months and love this site! I have two bunnies- a 1.5 yr old mini lop, Ember, and a 4 month old  lionhead, Teddy. They’re both fixed- Teddy recently, just 2-3 wks ago and I just introduced them a few days ago (early I know, see below for explanation!).

This is going to be really long… sorry!

I’ve read literally everything on bonding on this site (including all the posts on bonding) and on rabbit.org and thought I was prepared for anything that might happen! My bonding technique has been slightly unconventional so far due to my living circumstances… I kept both Teddy and Ember in my bedroom for the last month (I got Teddy a month ago) and just a few days ago I moved from Massachusetts to Kansas- a 24 hour drive (I considered waiting until I got here to get a second bunny, but for reasons that would be take too long to explain I decided not to). I started off with both buns in separate carriers in the car, but Ember is so freaked out by driving in the car that I ended up putting Teddy in the same carrier as her hoping that he would help calm her since he’s ok with the car (he had also shown signs of being completely in love with her so I wasn’t too worried about him being aggressive) I don’t know if it would work with all buns, but after 12 hours a day in the car for 2 days (with lots of breaks of course to feed and water them) they were cuddling and grooming and seemed totally in love!

When I got to the my new apt I set up a big NIC bunny condo and fenced in a corner of my apt so that they would have plenty of room when I didn’t have them out in the apt with me. I decided to see how they would do together outside of the car since I had a nice big neutral apt!- and this is the part that I don’t understand and I’m hoping someone can help me with! They still seem to love being together- they groom each other, they eat together, they play together (they really like hopping around the apt exploring all the different corners), they flop around and rest together. Which I thought were all signs that they were bonded and could be left alone together? But occasionally- only once a day- Teddy will go up to Ember- it seems like he’s trying to mount her which he doesn’t normally do (Em is very much the dominant one- the grooming is rather one-sided with Teddy doing 90% of the grooming and following her all around wherever she goes) and they’ll start circling (and lunging?) at each other- neither one is grunting, and I don’t see either one actually biting the other, but they’re moving so fast it’s hard to tell! The last time they did this they were actually hopping up in the air- either straight up or kinda hopping up and then over the other. I don’t know if they’re normal happy binkies, or if they’re so mad at each other they just have to jump up in the air! I normally get freaked out and separate them at this point- Teddy has a big "cage" with multiple levels that I can enclose him in separately. I’ve also been putting him in there at night when I go to bed. But  I’m not completely sure whether they’re "fighting" or whether they’re playing- I just assumed that it would be obvious and I would be able to tell the difference!

My theory on if it does turn out to be aggression and not playing, is that since it’s still somewhat close to Teddy being neutered- I wouldn’t have introduced them yet if it hadn’t have been for the car ride and if putting them together in the car hadn’t worked so well- that maybe his hormones kick in sometimes and he gets a little too frisky for Ember and she gets mad and that starts a fight.

I have noticed that sometimes during the day when Ember is napping Teddy will come up and groom her and she’ll do a little half-lunge at him to let him know that she just wants to rest and then he’ll go on about his own business hopping and exploring and it doesn’t seem like a big deal- just Ember letting him know that she’s not in the mood! It seems completely different from the circling episodes and doesn’t worry me like they do.

So I guess what my main question is, does anyone have any insight as to whether these episodes are play or aggression? And if it’s aggression, is it likely that it will taper out once Teddy loses the rest of his hormones? I don’t start my new job for another week so I’ll be at home to supervise them when they are together. I’m just not sure if maybe I should just keep them together all the time since they don’t seem to be actually be hurting each other?? They actually try to groom each other through the bars of Teddy’s cage which makes me feel bad for separarting them. I can’t decide if I’m being paranoid or not! Help!

Thanks for reading if you got this far

Veronica

(my screen name is in memory of my first pet rabbit, an amazingly cuddly Holland Lop)

[babybunsmum]

hi veronica!   i have absolutely no insight for you about the bonding behaviour… from reading your post i can see why you’d be confused.  so would i.  i’m sure you’ll get some insight from some one with good experience, but in the meantime i just wanted to say:  welcome and good luck

 

[lygray]

Hi, I just bonded my buns about four months ago and I had the exact same situation. When they first met it was like love at first sight but i made the mistake of trusting them. While I was sleeping, I would hear rusteling under my bed and things flying around. For like three nights I couldnt sleep because I was trying to grab one or the other so they would stop this fighting. my mini lop was 2 yr and 6 mos and the new one was 6 mos. Lola, my mini lop, acts like a queen and knows that everything is hers so I figured she was being territorial because this new bun in town was taking up her food, space, and cage. I then found about five cuts on her from either Cinnabon, my baby, or her hitting objects from the fights with Cinnabon. I immediately ran out to get his own cage and seperated them. First I put both in their cages which sucked because they are free buns so Lola suffered. Then I put both cages next to each other but not so close they could actually hurt eachother. Then, gradually, depending on their roughness, I took one out to play while the other stayed in the cage. I alternated like every hour or day, depending on my availibility to supervise. After a while I started to notice that the one that was free would sit by the one that was caged. Then I started to either put both in the same cage or let both out under my supervision for about an hour at a time. I also seperated their food until each obviously shared with the other. I hope this helped.

I dont actually know if they are playing or fighting but, Lola always got hurt and bled a little so I dont think it is a good thing. It can lead to very bad infections if not stopped. By the way, I had to block off the underside of my bed because I needed to make sure that if they ever start up again, I was able to catch one of them quickly. Block any thing that you wont be able to reach them or catch them in. As of today, they are like a married couple and loveing eachother like crazy.

[Veronica Vigilant]

I’m way too paranoid to actually let them be together at night so I think I’ll stay on the safe side and keep them apart at night until I’m absolutely positive they’re fine together! Glad to hear though that at least one other person had a similar problem!

One positive thing I have going for me- while me and the bunnies are currently in the new apt- all of my furniture is still in California for the next week due to a mix-up with the movers! (I went from CA to MA to KS in a 5 month time period) So there is absolutely nowhere the bunnies can hide! The bunnies literally have more furniture than I do at the moment!

[MarkBun]

Personally, it sounds like they’re friends and pretty well bonded. My guess is that Teddy’s hormones are beginning to kick in and he’s starting to act like an adolecent boy. The LONG car voyage and new apartment were ideal to help with the bonding process (I am even thinking about moving to make my bonding experience easier). I would think that there is some dominance issues currently going on so keeping them seperated while unsupervised would be a good thing but while you’re home and around, I’d say letting them be together should be fine. You’d know if they were really fighting as you’d find quite a bit of fur about the place.

[Gravehearted]

Hi Veronica – welcome!

since it’s so soon after Teddy’s neuter, his hormones are likely still pretty active.
so with the circling are they in close proximity and look almost like a bunny ying yang or blur of running round? if so, that’s an aggression thing. it’s also a good idea to make sure to check them both over for any possible bites.

another way to tell is ear posturing, if the ears are back and almost flat that means you’ve got an angry bunny. circling is also a mating kind of behavior, so it very well may be instigated by Teddy’s hormones. So, basically my vote is for continue working with them while keeping careful supervision in case there’s any aggression.

[Veronica Vigilant]

Markusdark- I’ve been reading all about your bonding experience- I hope it works out! I think I’m definately going to keep them separated for now while I’m not around to supervise, but let them be together when I’m there to keep an eye on them.

Gravehearted- The circling that makes me paranoid and that I break up right away is really close proximity- they move so fast that it’s hard to see their ears- Ember’s I can never tell anyway since she’s a lop and Teddy’s ears when I can see them don’t actually appear to be back flat- but I figure either way it’s best to be on the safe side! I haven’t seen any scracthes or bites when I looked them over so I don’t think they hurt each other. They also like to play chase which freaked me out at first until I realized that Teddy’s ears were facing forward and up and that they were taking turns “tagging” each other and then they would switch who was in front- it was really cute once I realized that it was playing!

Thanks for the insight!

[charlie82]

Hi,

It does sound like your rabbits are very much good friends already. This doesn’t sound like aggression to me, if it were aggression you would definitely be able to tell and there would be fur flying!! I have a pair of bonded males who occasionally behave like this when they are feeling frisky. When bonding rabbits you have to let them figure things out between themselves so some mounting should be allowed. If they continuously circle each other then that is the time to split them up as it can lead to fighting if one won’t submit. If your rabbits are grooming each other already I would say it was love at first sight!!

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