Pippen’s GI stasis, cecal dysbiosis, maybe dysautonomia???

[DanaNM]

Hi everyone, this is as much for my own records as to help anyone else who is going through a stasis episode! Man this has been stressful and scary. 

The bunny: Pippen, 4 years old, neutered male, dwarf hotot. 

The new bunny I’ve been fostering (and hope to adopt once he is bonded with my current bun), came down with a fairly intense case of stasis about 6 days ago. I wanted to post the signs that lead up to it, as well as what’s been happening with his recovery. I believe I caught it early, but not quite as early as I would have if I had known him better. He had only been home with me about two weeks, so I didn’t have a great baseline for what his poops and activity levels were like. 

His diet: started out with unlimited orchard grass hay and veggies twice a day (romaine, cilantro, fennel). He was used to alfalfa pellets at the shelter, so I slowly introduced Oxbow timothy pellets over the course of his first week home with me. I only gave him veggies that the shelter said he had eaten before with them. After about a week he was getting a bit less than 1/4 cup pellets per day, maybe more like 2 tablespoons. He gets water in a bowl.  He wasn’t a great hay eater at the shelter. 

Since he had been home with me, his poops were somewhat soft, and sometimes different sizes, with some very large ones. I mentioned this to the shelter coordinator who cared for him for 3 years, and she said that sometimes his poops were different sizes. We attributed this to a huge change in environment and I kept a close eye on his box.  They seemed very soft and like excess cecals, so I thought maybe I was giving too much or too many new greens, so I reduced the amount slightly. 

Starting last weekend, after 3 days of bonding sessions (two of which were fairly stressful, he was less interested in his pellets, but was still eating hay and all of his veggies. They were also doing very loud construction on the apartment under mine all day on Sat and Sunday. I was a worried about his fecal output on Sunday, but then Sunday night he produced a big pile of poops. Some were very large and oval, some were small, all were fairly soft, almost like cecals. Not normal, but at least I knew he was still moving, and he ate his veggies for dinner, so I didn’t intervene yet. 

The next morning I found him sitting hunched, grinding, and uninterested in any food (incl. cilantro, his favorite). He hadn’t produced any more poops that night. I called the shelter and the vet (which is SUPER rabbit savvy and has worked with the rescue for 20 years). Since he is a shelter bun still, they had me drop him off (they were also super busy). 

He ended up being hospitalized for 3 nights. The diagnosis was GI stasis. They finally got him moving again with syringe feedings 4 times a day, plus Cisipride 3 times a day. He started eating a little his own again on the second day, but was only producing some weird mucous covered, large oval shaped poops. Day three they decided to give him full run of one of their isolation rooms, and he started running around and pooping EVERYWHERE lol. He also started eating his greens very well. They noticed a lot of fur coming out in the first poops, and the poops were weird sizes, shapes, and overall “icky”. 

The vet was a bit worried that he might have a congenital defect in his cecum that is associated with this color pattern, but she thought it was too early to tell, especially given all of the stress he’s been under. It’s something they have noticed in their 20 years of experience and do have a treatment regimen for, but I’m trying not to google too much, and I really hope this isn’t the case. They shelter coordinator said he has no history of illness, aside from one bout of gas brought on by cabbage a few years ago.  So… trying not to worry too much yet. 

He came home with me on the 4th day (Thursday). I’ve been giving him Cisipride three times a day, metcam once a day, and syringe feeding Critical Care twice a day. He had lost a good bit of weight. Unfortunately I don’t have a good baseline for him, and I was handeling him minimally to try to earn his trust, so I’m not sure when the weight loss started. You could feel his spine very well and his little hip bones sticking out. So, the vet advised to allow him unlimited access to pellets, plus lots of greens and hay (of course). The pellets were the first thing he didn’t want to eat when he was in pre-stasis. She basically said feed him as much as he will eat of everything, give that he was underweight, and we just want to get him moving again as much as possible. 

Thursday his appetite was great. He was devouring his greens, munched some pellets, and ate some hay. Continued with the CC twice a day. Pooping A LOT. Gave greens three times a day, prob about 5 cups total!

Friday, same as Thursday, maybe slightly higher appetite. Ate his all veggies, a good amount of hay, about 1/4 cup pellets (I’ve been offering them unlimited, but measuring how much he eats). 

Friday night, about midnight, passed a large mucous blob. 

Saturday morning, fecals more “normal” looking. Still soft, weird sizes and shapes though. 

Saturday – very active throughout the day, good fecal output, good appetite for hay, pellets and veggies. Started giving tummy rubs after his syringe feedings and meds. 

Late Saturday night, about midnight again, was acting gassy. I gave 1 cc Simethicone and gave him a tummy rub. When I returned him to his pen he immediately passes another larger mucous/jelly blob, followed by a pile of more “normal” feces. Still soft, not uniform. 

Sunday morning- activity level good, eating hay, etc. Gave regular meds plus 1 cc Simethicone and tummy rub. Lots of fecals produced between midnight and 10 am. 1/4 cup pellets eaten between Sat midnight and Sunday 10 am. 

That brings us to now. Tomorrow (Monday), we decide whether to start taking him off the Cisipride. I am hoping that his weird fecals are a side effect of the Cisipride, but I am nervous. 

For those that have nursed buns through stasis and recovery, have you noticed this side effect? I know that poops can be “weird” for a while after stasis, but they were weird for him leading up to it as well. But then, that was all tied with big change in environment. I just ordered some Oat Hay, to try to up his hay consumption. I feel like his poops are soft because he doesn’t eat enough hay, but I don’t want to restrict the veggies at all, because I think that might have contributed to his stasis (in addition to all the stress). 

Trying not to over think this, but I’d love to hear from others on how long it took for their buns to get back to normal, and what people’s thoughts are on all of this. 

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Chelsea]

My bunny has GI stasis right now, and has had it before. This time it came on really fast and I suspect something else is going on. But the first time he got really sick with GI stasis it sounded pretty much identical to your description. I remember the mucus blobs well and am mentally preparing for it. This is probably TMI, but the same thing happens in people (my daughter has gastric issues). When there is a mass or old poops stuck in the intestines the body encapsulates it in mucus to isolate it and make it easier to pass. It’s definitely something to watch for as a sign there is a problem, and to expect during recovery from a known issue. The good news is it came out. I’m not a doctor or a vet, so take this with a grain of salt, but that’s my understanding.

[DanaNM]

One week has passed since Pippen was hospitalized. He’s now home and doing well, but his poops are still somewhat soft and irregular, so the vet would like to continue the Cisipride 3 times a day for another week, but stop the pain med (unless he seems uncomfortable) and critical care syringe feeding, since he’s been eating really well (veggies, hay, and pellets). Thankfully he’s now happy to take the medication dropped on a parsley leaf, so that makes things much easier.

I learned that Bertha (my other bun) loves licking the CC mixing dishes clean for me, so I might continue to give him a little on a plate if he’ll take it that way.

Also going to try giving him some Benebac to see if that helps fix his weird poops. It should arrive tomorrow.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Luna]

Pippen is lucky to have such a good foster mom . When Luna had stasis it was very sudden. She ate, pooped, and ran around before I left for work, but by the time I returned she was hunched in her litter box and her water and hay feeder were full. Now I have a wireless camera so that I can check on her anytime with my phone while I’m at work. As to the cause of her stasis, I blame myself for providing her with a poor diet (tons of treats and seed covered honey sticks – before I knew any better) . I had just rescued her (from my sister lol) and did not know a lot. I don’t remember how long leading up to the stasis that her poops were small, but that was pretty much the only indication that her digestive system was slowing. After simethicone and a vet visit, she was back to her normal self within 48 hours.

[vanessa]

When Lancelot’s poops start looking weird, small, misshapen, or mucousy, and when he doesn’t drink his normal amount of water over night (2-3 cups), I put beneback in his water, and a tablespoon of apple juiced to make it tasty. That gets him to drink all his water, rehydrates him, and the benebac gets his poops looking normal again. For him, it’s the combination of benebac and drinkign 3 cups of water – that gets his belly back to normal. I do he same thing if he gets squishy cecotropes or doesn’t eat all his cecotropes.

[DanaNM]

Well, things have been up and down. Mostly down since my last post, but the seem to be improving again. I am trying to be patient, but I am very stressed and starting to get frustrated. I am starting to feel like I am always either under reacting or over reacting…. vigilant or just paranoid?

Last post was Monday am, he had pooped a lot the night before, and ate lots for breakfast. Things were looking good. Talked with the vet, planned to continue Cisipride 3 times a day for another week, but could stop the syringe feeding and pain meds unless it seemed like he needed it.

Monday 4 pm – good activity levels, poops looking better, gave cisipride dose on a parsley leaf and he ate it.

Monday 8 pm – had eaten well throughout the day and was excited for dinner. Gave cisipride dose on parsley again around 9:30 pm.

Tuesday 5:30 am – Had eaten well overnight, but passed more mucous, plus only a small amount of soft poop. Activite OK, but spending a lot of time grooming mucous from rear end. Ate breakfast OK, gave cisipride on parsely again, and gave tummy rub and simithicone. Here I was nervous, because I had to leave for about 12 hours and would need to skip his afternoon cis dose, but the vet said that should be OK.

Tuesday 5 pm – Here comes the back slide. Had only produced mucous since 5:30 am, had not eaten any pellets, and didn’t eat most veggies. Belly felt very full. Gave 1 cc cis, 2 syringes of Critical Care, and benebac (which had finally come in the mail). Removed pellets completely. Gave tummy rub, are some carrot tops, but didn’t really want anything else.

1 am on Wednesday- gave more simethicone (because the vet had not given me enough cisipride which I realized right after they closed!) and belly rub, and he passed more mucous.

6 am Wednesday – Poop! Thank goodness. Good amount in box (not a ton though), and some scattered outside. Still soft and/or weird shapes. Appetite was improved, but not amazing. Still mostly just wanted carrot tops. Gave simethicone, 2 syringes CC, and metacam, then went to the vet, got the cisipride refill, and came home and gave that about 9 am.

4 pm Wednesday – More poop in the box, soft and with mucous, but at least there are poops there. Had eaten all of his breakfast veggies. Might have been eating hay? Gave simethicone, cisipride, and 2 more syringes CC. And a belly rub, of course.

This bunny is toying with my emotions! I have read that you have to be patient, I am just really concerned that he declined like that, but I am glad that he’s doing better. Maybe the benebac is starting to help? Do you guys think it was because I had stopped the critical care? How do I know when to stop? Or does it need to be a slow weaning? He started declining a bit before I skipped the cisipride dose… but maybe delivering it on the parsley was a bad idea, and he didn’t get the full amount? I am definitely not doing that again…..

I tried calling the vet to discuss, but I think they are tired of me calling, and since he was doing better they said it was fine (but if I was concerned to bring him in). Of course I don’t want to stress him out if I don’t need to, because this whole episode was brought on by stress.

I read in Dana Krempel’s article about a lot of mucous being due to toxins from bad bacteria, and that they can harm the liver. I wanted to ask the vet about Questran but I couldn’t even bring it up when I called, because they basically said they were limited on what they could do over the phone so I would need to bring him in if I was worried about him. I get that, but I couldn’t even ask the question. UGH.

Any thoughts or encouragement would be appreciated!

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[vanessa]

I keep up the critical care untill his poops look normal. If they are sparse, small, or mucousy, I keep feeding critical care, and keep sweetening hsi water with apple juice to get him to drink it all. I think that I had previousely underestimated the importance of continuous hydration.If you are concerned about bad bacteria, and I’ve read that same article, I’d keep up with the critical care. If I recall correctly, the directions on the package says 1 tsp oper 1-4lbs of body weight on day 1, 3, 5, 7, 14, and weekly after that for maintenance/prevention in bunnies who are prone to belly trouble. I don’t think it is 1 ything specifically that works. So not just the motility drug, or just the pain killer, or just the critical care, or just the water, or simethicone etc, but the combination of them all. I like adding probiotics. It has worked well for Lancleot. I do try to make all the meds less stressful. If I feel he is passed the syringe feeding stage (appetite is back), then I give him hay cookies that I make with critical care, banana, carrot, and parsley. He loooves them. Oh – I aso use a vitamin B supplement in the form of Sherwood Forest Digestive Supplement. I got the B suggestion from Bam. Love it. It really boosts hsi appetite, which helps the whole situation. For his meds, I don’ sprinkle them on veggies. The benebac directions say it sprinkle on veggies. I don’t want to waste/not fully medicate if he steps on a piece of medicated lettuce, etc. I prefer to put medication in a slice of mashed banana, so that I know he’ll eat it all. If he doesn’t finish it, I dilute it with water syringe feed him his meds. I prefer to use as small a syringe as I can, to get it over quickly. I put his benebac in his water with 1 Tbsp apple juice to 2 cups water. If I’m still syringe feeding critical care, I put the beneback in the first syringe of critical care, so I know he gets it all.
While I really dont’ want to add the applejuice because of the sugar, even though it is pure pressed applejuice with no added sugar, the benefits of him taking all his medicine outweight the possible drawbacks of the fruit juice.

[Chelsea]

This bunny is towing with my emotions!

I’m right there with you. So frustrating! I’ve posted my journey on another thread, but I’m still in the process of a roller coaster ride of hopes and smashed improvements. It does really sound though like he is going to make a full recovery. Vanessa’s advice sounds good to me.

I don’t know if it serves as an encouragement at all, but what I think I’ve learned with Silas is that mucousy poops and soft poops are much better than only tiny hard poops 3 days into treatment. My fingers are crossed for you that they return to completely normal soon.

[DanaNM]

Thank you Vanessa and Chelsea!

I got home around 10 pm last night, and he ate some veggies (but was being picky about it, only wanted carrot tops and fennel). I tried the apple juice in the water trick, and he drank a bit! But definitely not the whole bowl. But a small success. I gave him his cis and simeth right when i got home, then waited about 45 min to give him his CC with another dose of Benebac. He was still munching slowly on his veggies when i went to bed.

This morning i was happy to see he ate all the veggies I had left him with (including ones he hadn’t wanted the night before), and he had pooped! I never knew I could feel this happy to see poop in a litter box. =D

And they looked better than they have the last 2 days! Very little mucous, and lighter in color, looking like they had more fiber in them. Still not uniform sizes and shapes, but not a pile of squish either. He was also eating a bit of hay! Wooohoo!

Gave him his metacam, cis, and simeth first thing, then waited about 30 min to give his veggies, and then another 30 for the CC. He’s been munching his veggies all morning, and eating both the oat hay I got and some orchard grass.

Whew! So, who knows which thing was critical, but I think you guys are for sure right about continuing the CC until he’s 100% better, and I’m going to continue syringe feeding his cisipride so I don’t risk him not getting the full dose.

I wonder if the benebac is starting to help? And maybe removing pellets entirely? Or maybe just all of the things are finally starting to work together? I’ll keep offering the slightly sweetened water at night, I’ve also been feeding him his greens dripping wet and mixing the CC with extra water.

Hoping to keep this train rolling… thank you all for your support!

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[vanessa]

That is great news 🙂 Just keep at it. It’s like trying to jump start a train. It doesn’t happen easily…

While I also read about removing pellets entirely, I don’t do that with Lancelot, because he is so skinny. One vet says he prefers a skinny bunny to an overweight bunny. The other vet I take him to, says that he might have an easier time moving around if he picked up some weight and muscle mass. I agree with the second one. His skeleton is sharp and bony everywhere. So I give him as much pellets as he’ll eat. He stopped eating hay when he got sick last June, which is really bad for his tummy. I never feel that his stasis issues are completely resolved. He can be fine for a few weeks, and then I have to start his belly program again. I have discovered that he likes compressed hay cubes. So while they don’t help his molars, they do help his belly. So if you have a non hay-eater, the compressed timothy cubes are accepted as treats by most bunnies, and they typically like them.
Sweetening the water doesn’t have to be with apple juice. Not all bunnies are fruit-fiends. Lancelot is a sugar-crack-head. So he loooves apple juice. But I would use whatever juice he prefers – even if it is a vegetable juice. The goal is just to keep him hydrated. I agree with Chelsea about preferring mucousy poops to dry small poops. Mucousy but full at least indicates volume. Small and dry indicates too little volume, and too little hydration. Hydration helps with volume.

[DanaNM]

Thanks Vanessa, and yeah, the pellets are a tough call. He is underweight, but I want to get his poop back on track first, and make sure he’s eating enough hay. He’s eating both types of hay today, so that’s very encouraging! And he’s pooped a bit since this morning.

Also, the pellets I have are not the same as the ones he ate for 3 years at the shelter (he was eating alfalfa pellets, mine are timothy), and his poops were never normal with me for the few weeks I had him. So basically I want to start at square 1, as get his gi tract healthy again, and then we can try to get some weight on him. I think when he got his appetite back he was just wolfing down pellets (the pet said to free-feed him), and was eating about 1/2 cup per day (and he’s only 3 lbs).

I think the consensus between the shelter staff, the vet, and people here, is that he needs fiber and water the most, so I’m focusing on that with the hay and veggies, and then we will fill in the other nutritional needs with the CC.

It’s so good to see his activity higher… he’s currently inspecting all the hay that’s scattered around and finding the best pieces.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[DanaNM]

Oh man, I just have to say I am so thankful for this forum!

Pip was laying down and I’m pretty sure he had to hiccups (confirmed with youtube videos)! But I am so on edge with him, if it weren’t for this forum I would have been sure he was having a seizure or convulsing in pain!

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[DanaNM]

Things have been up and down with Pip. It’s clear he is still experiencing intermittent discomfort with mucous, which also seems to be accompanied by gas. The pain meds seem to help a lot. I wonder if he is also having inflammation in his gut which the pain med helps (it’s an anti inflammatory)?

Even when not producing a lot of mucous, his poops still are not uniform in size or shape. So, his gut seems to be irritated. Moving, but not functioning properly.

I just mapped out the days when he has produced a lot of mucous. It does seem like they have become more spaced out, and shorter duration (4 days, 1.5 days, 1 day) but honestly there have been more mucous days than non-mucous days since I brought him home, and the day where he only produced mucous was scary.

He is doing pretty well today, eating hay, drinking from his bowl, and poop looks like the post stasis poops he’s been making. He’s getting about 12 cc critical care 3 times a day, which he is getting less and less happy about. Last night he was very active and acting hungry, but then after his feeding he seemed very uncomfortable until his pain med kicked in. I was giving him a tummy rub and he started grinding his teeth, so I stopped. Is it possible that I’m feeding him too much CC? The vet had told me to give that amount in one sitting, I just alarmed that he went from pretty normal to in pain after his feeding (which hasn’t happened before). He didn’t have the same reaction this morning, he just seemed full afterward.

I don’t want to stress him out with extra vet visits if not necessary, since this whole thing was stress induced, but I’m thinking if he has another episode within the next 3 days he should be reevaluated. I should add that they did do a fecal exam on him while we was hospitalized and it was clean.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Luna]

When Pippen gets his critical care, do you have to force feed it or does he eat it on his own? Since he is eating hay on his own, I’m not sure if I would force feed the critical care. But if he eats the critical care on his own, then I would continue giving it to him. Luna sends some vibes for continued recovery ((((Pippen)))).

[vanessa]

Try making critical care cookies… That’s what I do with Lancelot when I feel he is passed th syringe feeding stage.

[DanaNM]

Took Pippen back to the vet this morning. Last night his belly felt very tight and he was grinding his teeth in pain, passed some more mucous this morning. It’s clear he is still experiencing intermittent pain, followed by mucous production. More mucous days than non-mucous days. The pain meds seem to help a lot. I wonder if he has inflammation in his gut which the pain med helps (it’s an anti inflammatory)?

He seems to get much worse right before he’s due for his pain meds.

One other thing that came to mind is that the shelter said that last year he did stop using his water bottle and would only drink from a bowl, and that he wasn’t a great hay eater. I’m wondering if he started developing some molar spurs that made drinking from the bottle painful.

I asked the vet to do a deep oral exam to make sure there isn’t an underlying dental problem that compounded with stress and is inhibiting his recovery. I also gave them the article by Dana Krempels which describes some treatments for bunnies producing mucous.

It’s clear that the treatments are keeping him going, but not comfortable, and he isn’t really making forward progress, so I’m hoping the vet can find some answers, or at least some alternative treatments.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[vanessa]

That’s frustrating. I would have expected improvement by now. Lancelot doesn’t drink from bottles. I used to use them years ago for my other bunnies, but when I got him from the shelter, they told me the same thing – no bottles, and he barely ate hay. (Now he doesn’t eat hay except for compressed hay cubes), His dental issues definitely contribute to him not using a bottle.
What about parasitic diseases such as coccidiosis that can lead to chronic enteritis?

[DanaNM]

The first time he was at the vet they tested him for coccidea and other parasites. They said he did have some coccidea, but nothing at the levels that would cause symptoms (they only cause symptoms like his in severe infections). 

Yeah…definitely frustrating. Hoping we can get this figured out. I really feel like there must be something causing him pain besides the stasis, because even when he is on gas and motility meds, he’ll show signs of pain when it gets close to when his pain med is due (he only gets that every 24 hours). 

I felt so bad taking him back, because I know it is stressful for him, but it’s been harder seeing him in pain every night. 

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[DanaNM]

OK, so just got off the phone with the vet. Pippen’s blood work looked normal. The x-ray showed that his cecum was very dilated and gassy, and they did observe the same mucous cycles that I had been seeing (alternating good appetite and activity with gassy and mucous producing), so they agree that his cecum is irritated and not regaining it’s proper function.

They are going to prescribe an antibiotic (baytril), and then would like me to feed him cecatropes from a healthy bunny daily to try to basically re-set his cecum function. He did mention the congenital disorder that the technician had mentioned (that is characterized by having really big, egg shaped or oval poops), but since his poops looked normal while he was at the shelter he didn’t think that was too likely.

I will try to get some from my other bunny, Bertha, but she is pretty secretive about them!

Do you guys have any tips for getting cecals? He said regular poop would be OK, but the cecals would be best.

Also, they are going to give me the antibiotic in a pill form. Is it harder to give a rabbit a pill than liquid?

They are planning to discharge him back to me this afternoon. Really hoping this works for poor Pippen!

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[vanessa]

I would ask if it is ok to crush it and mix it with banana or apple juice or something else or if there is a specific reason it should be given whole. I’m kinda surprised to hear about baytril in a tablet in that tiny quantity. .

Yeesh… I was also asked at one point to feed cecals to Lancelot while he was sick and had stopped eating his cecals. There is no way I would have been able to retrieve a cecal from one of my other buns, and since he was in a diaper at that time, everything got squished and I couldn’t tell if they were well formed or not. So I just gave him benebac.

[DanaNM]

He seems to be doing better today than he has been in a while! Good appetite and activity. His poops look post-stasis-y, with the occasional large oval one, but he hasn’t passed a significant amount of mucous since I brought him home yesterday afternoon, and his tummy feels much better.

The Dr. took him off the motility meds, so he’s only on Baytril and pain meds (as needed), plus a “poop shake” from Bertha once a day. I’m continuing 6 cc of CC (with a touch of pumpkin) twice a day, just to make sure his gut contents stay hydrated. The pumpkin really helps him actually swallow most of it rather than spitting it out. He likes the flavor a lot more and has been licking it off the end of the syringe when he’s hungry, which is great. They gave me a little pill-pusher syringe thing, which makes giving him the pill fairly easy.

Hoping we are finally on the up-swing…. but I don’t want to speak too soon, as he has to be on the baytril for about a week.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[DanaNM]

Pippen did a complete 180 overnight, and I had to rush him back to the vet this morning. Only produced a small amount of mucous over night, not eating, sitting hunched, belly firm and distended. I am heartbroken and don’t know what to do. Yesterday he was so active and ate tons of hay.

The vet said if he doesn’t improve the next step is exploratory surgery, which I DO NOT want to do. I think that is basically a death sentence.

He said he didn’t think he needed to put him back on the cisipride, but I am afraid that stopping that is what made him shut down.

I am devastated.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Bam]

I’m so sorry. Why does the vet think he doesn’t need cisapride? Could metoclopramide be an option? (It’s another motility drug that sometimes is more effective than cisapride.)

We recently heard of a bun that got a fecal transplant from a healthy bun. It’s a transplant of poop. They do it in humans.
Here’s that thread, the fecal transplant is mentioned towards the end of the thread:

https://binkybunny.com/FORUM/tabid/54/aft/156956/Default

[DanaNM]

Just spoke to the vet again about the lack of motility meds. Most reglan (as well as ranitidine) act on the stomach, but he said that at this point (based off his symptoms and the x-ray), the issue is in the cecum, caused by either: an obstruction, a tumor, something structural/congenital, or bacteral dysbiosis. So, they are treating the bacterial dysbiosis, and are expanding their treatment of that, to include a different antibiotic that will knock out clostridium. Then they are going to see how he’s doing in 24 hours.

They had prescribed “poop shakes” from my healthy bun, which I have been giving him for the past two days. I just looked at that other thread, as that case sounds very similar to what is going on with Pippen (aside from the coccidea). I wonder if they did the fecal transplant as an enema, or orally?

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[vanessa]

:-(((((((

[DanaNM]

Spoke to the vet. Pippen was having a good day today, but they didn’t really have any good news. They said they were not doing sub-q fluids, so there isn’t any real explanation for why he is fluctuating so much. They seem to be more an more convinced that he has that congenital issue that they were concerned about, mostly because he is losing muscle but not weight.

I don’t know what to think anymore. I brought up the fecal transplant suggestion, and they said they had never heard of such a thing, and it wouldn’t work since the bacteria would need to get to the cecum which was too far away.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[DanaNM]

Does anyone know how long antibiotics can take to work in cases of Clostridium infections? I guess they did treat him for Clostridrium the first time he was hospitalized, but they are doing it again just to be sure…. 

The veterinary team seem more and more convinced that Pippen has this congenital defect…. they still haven’t given a name, but it sounds at least similar to cow pile syndome: associated with his color, lack of proper nerves in the cecum, losing muscle mass, weird shaped poops…..

Tomorrow I go back to the clinic to pick up Pippen, the shelter coordinator (Pip is still just in foster care with me) is coming with me so we can talk to the vet together. At this point I really don’t know what to do. I spoke with the shelter coordinator last night, and she said the the shelter will basically do whatever I want to do. She is just as worried about me as Pippen, since I “didn’t sign up for this”. She compared it to offering to babysit and then having to make decisions about heart transplant surgery for the kids.  

I am so conflicted and I feel so guilty about all of this. I started fostering him to bond with Bertha, and now he is so so sick. He was fine (supposedly) at the other shelter for 3 years. Although the vet and the shelter I’ve been working with suspect he was having minor incidents before and no one noticed… Even if we can pull him through this and get him somewhat stable, I don’t know if he will ever be well enough to bond with her, as he obviously has a very sensitive system. And then, what if he dies an early death due to this disease? Then Bertha is widowed again, and I really don’t want to put her through that. 

But, I really care for little Pip, and want him to stand the best chance of recovery. The shelter coordinator said they can take him back into sanctuary and will do the best they can for him. 

I don’t know whether to give him more time with me…. or have the shelter take over…. but I don’t want to stress him any more than needed… 

Sorry this is rambling, I’m pretty messed up over this and am out of ideas. 

 

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[jerseygirl]

Does anyone know how long antibiotics can take to work in cases of Clostridium infections? I guess they did treat him for Clostridrium the first time he was hospitalized, but they are doing it again just to be sure….

What antibiotic is he on? Metronidazole is usually used to treat Clostridium. A 3 week course rings a bell but Im afraid I haven’t read any recent info on this.

Have they thought about using cholestyramine (Questran)? It’s a resin that can bind to harmful toxins produced by some bacteria. It’s not absorbed in the digestive tract.

Sending some {{{vibes}}} for Pippen!

[DanaNM]

he’s on two antibiotics, Baytril, and another one that treats anaerobic bacteria, but I can’t remember the name off the top of my head. 

I mentioned questran at one point, and the vet said with was expensive and hard to find, but he would be open to trying it if I can find it. 

Any thoughts on where to find it? 

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[jerseygirl]

Yes, my apologies! Im just now taking the time to read the thread in full and saw that you had already mentioned Questran.

I was just reading that is can be use prophylactically. Either syringe fed or sprinkling on food. It should be found in drugstores.At least, that is what I read once. Possibly activated charcoal would do the same thing?
But do run this by the vet incase either of these interfere with absorbtion of the medications Pippen is on.

[jerseygirl]

There is some natural forage that can be beneficial also. Raspberry, blackberry or blackthorn leaves, if you can get them. Blackthorn is said to be particularly useful. Normally plum leaves are to be avoided but they seem to do okay with this wild variety. Lots of natural forage that rabbits gravitate towards helps control coccidia also. 

I just found this but have read other accounts of blackthorn helping rabbits with gut issues.

They are seasonal eaters given the chance, for example mine only really like blackthorn now until the leaves drop. After that untill this time next year they aren’t that fussed with it.
turns out that the medicinal properties in the plant are only in big enough quantities to be affective at this time of year! Blackthorn is IMO one of the most important things we can use to heal a rabbit with any gut issues and I have brought many around from a bout of stasis with it. But it is only effective from when the sloes have that bloom on them till the leaves drop (don’t feed the sloes, just the twigs or leaves ).
I find it so valuable that I pick lots now and dry it for the rest of the year ;D
Source:http://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/forum/index.php?topic=28591.0

[DanaNM]

Thanks everyone for the kind words and suggestions. I have been giving him some natural forage (plantain, sow thistle, dandelion, willow). At this point his poor little system is so messed up that I am reluctant to try any new plants, but I might order some of the floppers herb blend to see if that helps him get his good gut flora reestablished. We really just want to focus on fiber, moisture, and nourishment. 

So, Pip is home again. He was a bit up and down at the vet, but has been eating and pooping the past two days, and is more “chipper”. He’s not the best I’ve seen him today, but also not the worst. He’s eating hay, reasonably active, etc. The vet said he passed some nice looking cecals this morning (he said true “bunch of grapes” cecals), which is encouraging, as it means the cecum is at least emptying in some regard. But, I’m prepared for more ups and downs. 

The plan is to give him until Tuesday on the current medications so give new antibiotic and re-innoculations (“poop shakes”) a chance to work. He is now on baytril, metronidazole (aka flagyl, for clostridium), and cisipride. They said I can give him metacam if needed, but since he is on so many meds they only want me to give it if really necessary. Continuing the syringe feeding twice a day, even when he’s eating. 

I had a good, in person conversation with the vet and shelter coordinator (all at once!). Right now we are all basically hoping for this to be cecal dysbiosis caused by a bacterial imbalance, which hopefully the antibiotics should treat. The vet said if he hasn’t improved significantly by Tuesday we will re-assess. The potential genetic issue that could be the root cause is dysautonomia (I believe it is similar to cow pile syndrome, but the vet didn’t call it that), and basically has to do with faulty innervation of the cecum. They can only really diagnose it in necropsy, and even then it’s iffy, since it’s very rare. But, the vet said that when rabbits have this they periodically pass really huge poops, which Pippen hasn’t done. They are just irregular (cecal dysbiosis), so they are hopefully just the result of his gut being out of whack. The other possibilities are adhesions or scar tissue in the gut, which are preventing things from moving through properly. 

So, for now, just going to be patient, and help him get through this as best I can. The shelter coordinator showed me some acupressure points near his spine that I can massage when he seems gassy. His cecum just gets so full of gas that I have been afraid to even touch his tummy (and the vet tech agreed that it would be better not to when it gets that bad).

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[DanaNM]

Pip is holding steady. Appetite is decent, activity is decent. Haven’t given him pain meds since he’s been home and he seems to be doing OK. Last night he was acting gassy, and I massaged the acupressure points along his spine for a while, and it seemed to help, as he was more active by the time I went to bed. 

The good news is they gave me all liquids for his new meds, which are flavored appropriately for bunnies (not LIVER, yuck), and he LOVES them and practically sucks them out of the syringe. Certainly makes this less stressful for the both of us!

I’m still really really hoping he doesn’t have dysautomonia… but he passed a HUGE poop today, which is not reassuring:

 

Anybody know if there are other explanations for passing big egg-shaped poops? He has been producing a lot of oval/egg shaped poops, plus smaller irregular ones. This is probably the biggest one I’ve seen him make. He is only a 3 pound bunny! 

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Vienna Blue in France]

((( Pip ))) Zou passed those shaped after her spay / anaesthetic for a couple of weeks. I was just glad she was passing something….
Great news about bunny flavoured meds. Well, flavoured FOR bunnies… : laugh:
((( pip )))

[DanaNM]

Well, I don’t want to speak to soon, but I think Pippen has been doing better….? His appetite and activity are not the highest I’ve seen them… but he seems maybe about 75%… and much more stable. Before he was going from super active and ravenous to almost complete shut down every other day. He has also been resting more in the “lounge” pose, as opposed to hunched.

He came home from the vet on Saturday, and since he’s been home (and on the new antibiotic combo), he has not passed any mucous (!), and has not needed any pain meds (!). Three nights without mucous blobs is definitely a record!

He has still had some gassy moments, usually in the evening, where his tiny tummy looks like a little basket ball. I have been massaging along his spine (and usually hear some tummy gurgles in response), and he seems to perk up soon afterward. He is taking his CC readily from the syringe. I’ve been giving him 24 – 36 cc a day, even though he’s eating, just to keep his hydration up and try to put some weight back on him. Poor guy is so bony

He’s also still getting 0.2mL Cisipride 3 times a day (last two days I was only able to do twice a day though, and he seemed to have handled it OK).

Also, Bertha finally made some extra cecatropes, so I was able to give him a proper “poop shake” tonight. Hopefully it helps! His poops are still irregular shapes and sizes. Overall they seem more formed though… less of the cecal dysbiosis piles of mush.

This morning the vet said to continue everything for another day and call tomorrow.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Vienna Blue in France]

(((( quiet excitement then ))))) ((( sssshhhh )))

[DanaNM]

Pip has stayed fairly constant the last couple days, still no mucous since he’s been home! And no need for pain meds. He produced some reasonable looking cecotropes tonight (he didn’t eat them, but I wouldn’t expect him too since he’s on antibiotics). Assuming tonight stays the same or better, after tomorrow morning’s antibiotic dose the vet wants to stop the antibiotics, but continue the cisipride and the poop shakes. I was able to get a few cecotropes from Bertha by over feeding her a bit (which she does NOT mind in the slightest), so he had proper poop-shakes the last two nights (which he was still not impressed with, but oh well.

He has seemed gassy on and off (usually after dinner), but I’ve been massaging around his spine, and he seems to perk up soon after.

I’m cautiously hopeful….

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[DanaNM]

Hmm, I’m not familiar with blackthorn. Maybe it’s not grown commonly in California? Do you happen to know what the scientific name is? If I go looking for it I just want to be sure I have the right plant, since common names vary so much my region (I’m a biologist, can you tell?)

There is a ton of blackberry growing wild in my area, so I can definitely try that one. 

All of these wild plants are going to save me a ton at the market  

I also saw on an older thread that your Jersey had weird shaped poops…  if you don’t mind me asking did you ever get to the bottom of the trouble? Did it end up turning into cow pile syndrome? The vet is concerned that Pippen’s troubles are genetic in origin, but there really isn’t any way to know for sure (they said it can only be diagnosed in necropsy…..). 

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[jerseygirl]

Sure. It’s Prunus Spinosa (also known as sloe plum). I think it is more native to Europe. I was just looking up other varieties if wild plum and wonder if they could have same effect. Prunus Americana is grazed on occasionally, by deer & rabbits. It may be a case of a certain time of year when they find it particularly appealing, or it’s the young, fresh growth they go for. I couldn’t say for certain!

Jersey never really produced proper round bunny poop. It wasn’t until I got my second rabbit (Rumball) that I knew what rabbit poos where supposed to be like! I do think she could have something going on with the nerves to her gut. She also wouldn’t eat hay (so that was a big reason for small, dark, dry  poop) and had some dental spurs later in her life. She lived to be 6. When I had her on a 98%hay pellet, she produced more normal looking poop finally. Occasionally really big oval ones also. 

 I did learn a bit about cwp syndrome at the time that I was trying to work out what was going on with her. I was never certain that’s what she had really. There are different types though, I think. Did you take a look at this older thread and redbunbun’s contribution? https://binkybunny.com/tabid/54/aft/145063/Default.aspx (Just treat it as a read-only thread).

[DanaNM]

Thanks! I’ll keep an eye out for it. 

That’s interesting about Jersey. From what I’ve read about CWP, it seems like those bunnies had weird poops from the beginning. The shelter that Pip came from claims that he has always had normal, round poop…. but the vet and the shelter here point out that care at the shelter is never going to be as good as at home, and with different people cleaning boxes, we can’t really know for sure. 

The vet has never called the disorder they suspect CWP or megacolon, only dysautonomia. But they said it was associated with the hotot and Rhinelander pattern, which is the same as the cwp/megacolon gene, so I suspect it’s all the same thing, but maybe can act on different parts of the GI tract. They also said it can onset around this age (4)… I just feel like he would have had some weird poops before. And this isn’t the first stress he’s encountered (he almost died from neglect when he was about 1). 

I am trying to stay hopeful… the antibiotics seem to have cleared up the mucous and the cecal dysbiosis, but his gut is still a bit slow and gassy (even with 3 x per day cisipride). His poops pretty much always look a bun who is either about to go into stasis or that just came out of it.

He has his last dose of anitbiotics last night. So now we continue to “re-inoculate” and keep him moving with the cisipride… I know that antibiotics can also make poop weird, so I’m hoping that now with whatever was causing the mucous cleared out, and with the antibiotics done, he can hopefully get his poop looking better. 

It’s really hard I’ve got the vet on one side saying it’s probable this genetic issue, and his old shelter coordinator on the other side claiming it can’t possibly be that because, “he was fine before!”. 

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[DanaNM]

One more thought… The vet has checked his teeth, but they said they would need to sedate him to check his far back molars.

Earlier today, Pip was VERY gassy, so I gave him some metacam (he hasn’t needed any in about a week) and a massage (heard and felt lots of gas moving around in his tummy).

I left for a few hours, came back, and he is eating hay like a champ. Obviously the pain from the gas would reduce his appetite… but I wonder. The past week he has been eating pretty well without the metacam, but not as much hay as I would like. Enough not to freak out about it, but could be better.

I feel like we are in this chicken-egg scenario: his gut slows down, gas builds up, causes pain, gut slows down more. But why does his gut keep slowing down? Why does the gas keep building up? Could pain from his teeth also be at play? Would there be other symptoms of pain from his back molars that we could detect without sedating him?

At this point I’m searching for any explanations that aren’t genetic in origin….

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[jerseygirl]

GI upsets and GI stasis is very much a chicken/egg scenario. It’s often is the symptom of another issue. Vets will often look to dental first as it’s such a common issue for rabbits.Though, there is a multitude of other triggers really.

Has he had full bloodwork done?
Is he still losing weight or is it more stable now?

[DanaNM]

He did have full blood work and an abdominal x-ray. They said his blood work was all in the normal range for things. They did a superficial dental exam, but said to see the back molars they would need to sedate him. 

The last time he was at the vet they said he had not lost any more weight. He has seemed more stable since the antibiotics, but still intermittant gas, and still on the cisipride (and still has irregular shaped poops of different sizes). 

In this case, it seems pretty clear that the initial trigger was stress and a change in environment, but the ongoing question is why he hasn’t recovered fully yet. I guess I just want to make sure we don’t assume dysautonomia and treat him with cisipride for the rest of his life, when there is a chance it could be his back molars….

I’m just really really hoping it’s not dysautonomia, because Bertha has really taken a liking to him (this has all be very extended pre-bonding)… and I have too! It would break my heart and hers to bond them an have him die in a year or two.  

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[DanaNM]

I posted about this in the bonding thread I had started a while ago, but figured I should post about it here too, as I think more folks have been following this thread.

Well, it has been about 4 weeks since Pippen went into stasis. There have been a lot of ups and downs, but it seems like we are mostly stable… He has been off of all antibiotics for 5 days. We are still doing cisipride 3 times a day, CC (to try to get his weight up, and account for reduced appetite during gassy episodes), and re-innoculating him with benebac and poop from Bertha.

But, his poops are still irregular sizes and shapes. He hasn’t been producing any of the huge egg shaped ones, but no normal round ones either.

So, the vet is still hopeful that the re-innoculation will work, but also worried he has dysautonomia, which I think might be the same thing as Cow Poop syndrome? But maybe with a different name? He fits the color profile.

So, I am conflicted. There is really no way to know whether he has this disorder, but if he has it, we would expect him to have more frequent stasis episodes, and to start losing muscle mass. It sounds like bunnies with this disorder usually don’t live past 6 years old.

We still don’t know for sure if he has this (and maybe never will). But will he ever even be well enough to bond with Bertha? Is it fair to bond them if he is going to get sick frequently? Do I want to subject her to him most likely passing before her, after she’s already been widowed once already?

And then there is the fact that I would also be taking on responsibility for a bunny with issues that will most likely get worse over time…. Remember Pippen is still just in foster care with me. I have gotten so behind at work with all of this, I really don’t know if I can commit to giving medication 3 times a day indefinitely.

He and Bertha have been living side by side, and they spend a lot of time laying near each other on opposite sides of the fence.

I’m going out of town this weekend, so the shelter coordinator is going to take him to her place and look after him. Then I guess I will have to decide whether she keeps him indefinitely, or whether he will come back and continue living with me. I am actually glad to get her opinion on what she thinks is going on with him.

Obviously I need to have a conversation with the vet and the shelter coordinator about his future. I do want what’s best for him, but also what’s best for Bertha.

I would love to hear people’s thoughts on this.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[vanessa]

That’s a difficult position to be in. I feel similarly about Lancelot sometimes. With his EC, he will get relapses, and each relapse comes with more irreversible nerve damage. Each time he loses muscle mass I struggle to get his weight back on, and when this happens, I struggle to keep him dry and free of urine scald. During the active infections, he gets medicine twice a day, syringe feeding 3 times a day, diaper changes 3 times a day if I’m at home, baths daily if he is not in a diaper, and once or twice a week if he is in a diaper, and I clean his eyes at each diaper change too. It’s a lot. I go to bed between midnight and 1am, and wake up at 0530 for work. It’s tiring. I know that at some point, I’ll have to decide about euthanizing him. But until then, I’ll keep caring for him as long as I still have hope for each relapse to resolve, and as long as he still shows enthusiasm after a 28-day treatment. Having a shelter to care for your foster bunny is a nicer option than euthanizing. At some point, it can become too much for us. We need to be able to balance our work, family, and other pets, with quality of life for the sick pet. If you can manage to care for Pippen, it is difficult but rewarding. If you can’t, then the kindest thing to do would be to let the shelter care for her.

[Chelsea]

I’m so sorry you are dealing with this. I also have a bunny with possible dysautonomia, cow poop (again, right coloring) or just generic poor bowel function. He’s four years old, and we’ve almost lost him twice. He’s currently on medication twice a day. In September we got another rescue bunny thinking we would bond them, but I haven’t yet. I worry about the process making Silas sicker, or like you said, the trauma to Jasper of Silas’s reoccurring illnesses and a likely early death. He is literally the perfect house bunny and the best pet we’ve ever had, so we would never dream of giving him up. We’ll give him the best longest life we can. But it’s hard. I think you have to ask yourself if you (and Pippen!) would be getting anything out of him staying with you. Is he happy and alert when he is with you? Does he bring you joy? If not, than I don’t think you should feel bad about letting the shelter care for him.

[DanaNM]

Thanks Vanessa and Chelsea,

Pippen has been with the shelter coordinator since Thursday. As of Friday she said he was doing well. I got home from out of town on Monday, and I haven’t spoken with her yet.

This isn’t easy… but I don’t think I’m going to take him back. Unless maybe he has made a miraculous recovery and his poops are normal and round?

It would be one thing to have a bunny I already had get sick… of course I would do everything I could for him… but the thought of adopting a pet with a known and serious medical issue just won’t work. Especially since the whole point of adopting him was to bond with Bertha. My husband and I would basically need to rearrange our lives to care for him, and I don’t think either of us want to voluntarily sign up for that.

To answer Chelsea’s questions…. he is happy and alert sometimes… other times not. He did bring some joy, but mostly stress and worry. It basically consumed me the past month.

It has been a big relief not worrying about him the last few days, but, ugh, it makes me feel like a bad person

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[jerseygirl]

Not at all. You know your limitations and are making a decision based on what’s best for you, Bertha, and Pippen. Im sure it’s been difficult one to make, especially as you sort of bond with an animal when you’re nursing them through something. But knowing he is in a home (the foster home) that he’s familar with must give you some peace of mind. 

Do update again about him after you’ve spoken with the carer. I am interested to hear where he is at with his gut situation. Glad to know he’s been doing well. : )

[DanaNM]

Thanks jerseygirl,

Yeah I definitely bonded with him… and I wasn’t sure how much he had bonded with me, until my husband returned from trip and tried to syringe feed him for me, and he grunted at him (Pip had just been running up to me and eating readily from the syringe)!

I will for sure update when I know more!

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[vanessa]

U r not a bad person. We do need to maintain a balance. Im sorry this was so difficult for you.

[Chelsea]

You are definitely not a bad person. He will be fine with the shelter, and you also have to take care of yourself, your family and Bertha. You couldn’t very well give him the best care if you are running on empty yourself. It was very compassionate of you to give him as much care as you did.

[DanaNM]

Well, Pippen has been back at the shelter for about 2 weeks. He has basically been the same as he was with me. The first week he was there, he was good (active, eating, grooming, happy). Then he had an episode of a very soft “splat” of poop, followed the next day by not eating, not pooping, hard tummy, which really scared the shelter coordinator who has been taking care of him (and she said she is not scared easily, after 20 years of taking care of bunnies). She spent the night massaging him and he was better the next day, with another “splat” poop, and then got back to “normal”.

So, she says she now has a much better appreciation of what I was going through with him, and agrees that he most likely has some condition tied to the En/en gene, with episodic soft, unformed poops, followed by intense gas/near stasis.

As of today, he is doing well again. I am not going to be keeping him, they will find a sanctuary foster home for him, as she thinks he is not adoptable based on his issues. She may even try to bond him with her bunny that has similar unformed-poop issues (so “they can have the most disgusting litter box ever together”).

So, my saga with Pippen is over. I know the rabbit rescue will do the best they can for him. I’m hoping they will be able to get his care regimen dialed in so that he lives best life he can, without too many episodes of pain. Thank you to everyone who offered advice and support throughout this!

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[vanessa]

((((DanaNM and Pippen)))))

[Author]

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