Picky elderbun now eating less: If he’s eating hay and oats, does he need CC?

[Meg]

Hey everyone!

So our beloved 12-year-old 3.5-pound Lionhead, Teddy, had been getting pickier and more variable with food over the past few months, but the last 2 days has nearly stopped eating pellets/greens, and we started subQ fluids last night (he already gets twice-daily meloxicam, cisapride, simethicone, and famotidine as part of the senior maintenance that he has proven to need, and once-daily Benebac gel).

It doesn’t look like classic stasis, though: he doesn’t seem uncomfortable, takes nice naps, does happy tooth-grinding, and acts fairly normal.  Sometimes he’s pretty active, he hops up to the second floor of his cardboard castle which he never usually does during stasis, and he even gave some headshakes (like mini-binkies) yesterday.  He’s still eating hay and he’s still VERY excited for oats.  He’ll still eat his Sherwood digestive and joint support tablets. His poops are smallish but otherwise normal.

However, he’s barely eating any pellets or greens, as of yesterday.  It’s clear to me that this is a problem, so I’ll keep doing twice daily subQ fluids until it’s better, but I’m less clear on what else I should do.  Specifically, if he’s eating a decent amount of hay and all the oats we will give (which is usually 1 Tbsp per day, but has been closer to 1.5 Tbsp since he stopped eating pellets yesterday), do we need to force-feed him Critical Care?  (He hates it, unfortunately, and it takes like 60-90 minutes per 10ml to get it in him.)  Normally we would do that if he’s not eating enough pellets, but we are new to the oat situation so I don’t know if that changes things?  (We’d started sprinkling some rolled oats over his pellets a month or two ago to help him gain weight, and he is a FAN.)

For background, the past few months he’s been more variable in that sometimes he finishes all his daily 2Tbsp of pellets and/or his big plate of greens, other days he finishes one but not the other, and still other days he’ll eat like 3/4 of his pellets and 1/2 his greens… this doesn’t seem to correlate to anything, and he seems to act fine throughout, so we’ve been rolling with it, figuring that his “normal” is getting more variable now that he’s 12.  He has spondylosis but is still quite mobile and active, and seems like a happy bun.  So we’re confused that he suddenly stopped eating hay/pellets while continuing to act normal otherwise… he has been shedding more since we introduced sunflower seeds at the same time as the oats, (like 4-5 seeds per day, and I want to stop that now).  The shedding has increased in the past week or two and my theory is that he ingested too much fur and that’s what set this off.  (?)  When I picked him up to give fluids I also did a bunch of de-shedding and got almost a whole nother bunny’s worth of fur on the floor!!  😉

Anyway, please let me know if you think the hay and oats are enough (and is it a good or bad idea to increase the oats while he’s refusing other food?) or if we need to force feed him. And anything else we may be missing here.  Thank you so much!!  🙂

[LBJ10]

Hmm… reminds me of when my dog got old. She just stopped wanting to eat certain things. Near the end, all she wanted was plain cooked chicken. She didn’t want her dog food, etc. I often wondered if maybe nothing tasted good to her anymore. Could this be what Teddy is doing? Maybe pellets just don’t taste that great to him anymore. He’s still eating hay and oats, so obviously this isn’t stasis. If he wasn’t eating hay so well, then I would question his teeth.

[Meg]

Thank you so much, LBJ.  I think we talked about this earlier and that does make sense.  And I do want to give him more oats and other things he likes now because I think that’s a privilege of being this old.  😉

But the fact that he went from eating like 70%-95% of his pellets/greens on average to almost none so suddenly makes me concerned it could be something else, like a slowdown, dehydration, and/or fur-ingestion issue (especially with all this shedding).

What do you all think of my two questions?

1. Is it a good or bad idea to increase the oats while he’s refusing other food?
2. Are the oats (and handful of hay) enough, or do we need to force-feed him?

Thank you so much!  I’ve only had one other bunny (Teddy’s BFF, Athena) and she passed pretty suddenly when she was 10 but without noticeable aging issues yet, so I don’t have any experience caring for a senior bun whose needs/appetites are changing like this.  I’m so grateful for the advice of more experienced bunny people!  🙂

[LBJ10]

As long as the oats aren’t causing stomach issues/soft poops, I don’t see why he can’t have more. And force feeding him at this point seems a bit unnecessary. What you’re describing sounds like the normal aging process. They just stop wanting as much food and their body slowly shuts down. If it were me, I would just give him whatever he wants. If he were to take CC willingly, that would be a different story. But I would think you would not want to stress him out during whatever time he has left, if that makes sense.

You could try a different type of pellets if you think that would entice him. Some pellets are sweeter than others. You could also try more fragrant greens like herbs. If you’re worried about dehydration, you could syringe him some water (if he will tolerate that).

[Bam]

I agree that force feeding should be avoided if it’s stressful for the bun. If he’d be willing to take CC from a plate, it’d be another story. Sometimes buns will eat cc mixed with canned plain pumpkin.

Oats are good as long as he still eats hay. Oats alone have too little fiber to sustain a bun, as I know you know. You will be able to tell from his poop, of course.

Fresh strawberries and other berries can be a nice addition to a bun’s diet. Not as sugary as fruit but still delicious, plus adds a bit of water.

 

 

[LBJ10]

That’s a good idea Bam. Bunnies tend to like berries and they do tend to have less sugar.

[Meg]

Thank you both so much!  I’m relieved that you agree about not force feeding in this case.  We’ve been giving subcutaneous fluids and he’s been eating a little more greens and pellets, but not much (maybe like 1/4 of the total he gets).  Other than that, not much change over the past 4 days: he still acts happy and comfortable and is pretty active (also very feisty when we have to give him fluids!) but just wants to eat mainly hay and oats.  We have been trying some herbs and have a little more success with that (I was surprised he likes fresh sprigs of oregano!) but he still won’t eat more than 1-2 pieces at once.  I’ll try fresh berries next time we get groceries!  He has been extra sensitive to sugar the last few years, so that I’ve had to stop giving even the tiniest amount of banana, but maybe berries would work better.  🙂

Bam, could you tell me more about how I will know from his poops if he’s getting enough fiber: do you mean their size, or more consistency?

Thank you so much again!! 🙂

[Bam]

If he poops less, if the poop comes out in weird shapes like doubles or strung together with hair, or if they become sticky or even smeary, its likely due to insufficient indigestible fiber in the diet. I think you would notice, since you have had such a long time together – so you know how his poop “should” look. And you’d notice if he were to get “poopy bum”.

The only berries that I can think of that have a somewhat more significant amount of sugar are blueberries, but since you wouldn’t be giving him heaps, I dont think it would be a problem. (Grapes have a lot of sugar too, but they’re obv. not technically berries).

[Meg]

OK great, thank you so much, Bam!  🙂

[Meg]

Hey everyone!  Thank you so much again for your help.  Teddy’s been going along about the same, eating like 1/3 his normal pellets (maybe 1/2 on a good day) plus hay, super excited about oats, not drinking much water on his own.  He had a brief bout of stasis maybe 10 days ago so he got CC for like 2 days, then started eating again, and we’re still weaning him off fluids (currently at 50ml every other day).

I’m supposed to go out of town next week Weds-Sat, and am nervous.  We have our regular bunnysitter coming over twice a day to feed him and give meds that he eats off a plate, but she’s not comfortable giving fluids or syringe-feeding if he were to get worse.  I’m trying to get a local vet tech for backup in case, but not sure if I will be able to find someone who’s available.  If he were to get worse I’d just come home asap, but I’d be like a 10-hour drive away and if we get the call at night, that’d be tough.

Anyway, I’m wondering if there’s anything more I could do to help him get enough food/fiber/fluids.  He seems to be eating just barely enough fiber through hay and what pellets he does eat, but it’s not excellent, and he needs more fluids.  I just read about making a wet porridge with the oats and pellets, but then read mixed things about that — some say it leads bunnies down a dangerous road (bad for their teeth, etc.) and others say it’s good for hydration and sneaking in more fiber with pellets/CC.  But I guess that would depend largely on whether he would keep eating the same amount of pellets/hay once this was introduced.  Should we try it just while I’m gone, or is that a bad idea?

Any other thoughts? I did experiment with raspberries and blackberries – he only ate the latter, but he would eat like 1 a day which I’m sure helps some with hydration.  I stopped when he got stasis because I was worried about sugar but will try reintroducing them now.  I know blackberries don’t have much sugar, but he’s pretty sensitive to it.

Thank you so much!!

 

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