Peeing On Carpet

[IAmGroot87]

Hi all!

I have a 7 month old un-fixed (she gets spayed in 2 days) Holland Lop who goes through periods where she randomly loses her litter training and pees outside her litter box.
I’m just trying to better understand her behavior so i can find a solution.
I’ve noticed that she seems to pee a lot on the carpet when someone new is in her play area (the living room). My best friend came over to meet her the other day, went to give her some kale and she emptied her whole bladder right in front of him on the carpet while eating the kale. More often than not, it’s little spot pees and not her full bladder, but lately, she has been letting it all loose.
Tonight, i gave her a treat and when she finished, she lifted her butt and peed right in front of me. I cleaned it with some vinegar, then she did it again. From there, i caught her, put her up on a chair and cleaned her backside. When she pees outside the box, she tends to get it all over her feet and bum.
When I was done cleaning, i put her back down and she immediately peed again on the carpet. 
I hate to confine her to the cage, but that’s where shes going to be until she stops making a mess. She had a period of 2 to 3 weeks where she only went in her litter, but now we’re back to this. We don’t care about the carpet, but i’m afraid the hardwood underneath is getting damaged.

To me, this sounds hormonal and territorial. She seems to feel challenged for her space. Or is she just pissed off about something and letting me know? (pun intended). 

I’m hoping she will drop this behavior after she’s spayed.

Any advice is much appreciated.

Thanks!

[kurottabun]

It does sound territorial and should get better after a spay. Many people find it so much easier to litter train their buns after they get fixed.

Bear in mind that there is usually a hormonal spike post-spay where the bun will go a little crazy displaying hormonal behaviour. So if your bun seems to be getting worse after the spay, don’t give up yet – wait it out and persist with litter training. It should get better!

[IAmGroot87]

Sorry for the non-reply! I thought i’d receive an email if someone replied but I didn’t.

Thank you for the advice!  She was spayed 4 weeks ago and the operation went extremely well.

I’m dealing with exactly as you suggested, she actually got worse since her spay. Every single day she leaves little pee spots. I was just laying on the floor with her and she decided to give me bunny butt while I was petting her, then proceed to wet the carpet and flick pee all over my face! She has good aim lol. It gets all over her bum and her legs and I have to clean her every time.
I’m not sure what else I can do besides wait it out, I’ve tried a lot of different things. I disciplined her tonight by shouting and immediately putting her back in her cage after she sprayed my face. She thumped at me twice lol. I feel like discipline might not be the right thing in this case because if anything, her behavior means she loves/claims me as hers.

Ugh, rabbits are work! Thanks for your help.

[Asriel and Bombur]

Shouting at her and putting her in her cage isn’t teaching her anything. Bunnies aren’t dogs. They don’t understand punishment. And you can’t punish a hormonal behavior out of her. Shouting is going to make her fearful of you and putting her in her cage is going to make her resentful.

[sarahthegemini]

Her litter habits aren’t likely to improve until she has been spayed and her hormones have settled.

You shouldn’t shout at an animal to ‘punish’ them. All you’re doing is scaring her. You shouldn’t be ‘punishing’ hormonal behaviour anyway. As frustrating as it might be for us humans, it’s not something they really have control over. It’s all their natural instincts taking over.

She needs plenty of time out of her cage so you musn’t confine her to it. You could put down tarp or something to make clean up easier

[Wick & Fable]

If you click the “Subscribe” check box at the top of this page (next to the Reply button), you will receive emails for replies.

The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.

[IAmGroot87]

Thanks for the subscribe info
I thought I read somewhere if you raise your voice immediately after they do something unwanted, they will associate your displeasure with their action, but I definitely agree, if it’s hormonal, she can’t help it and discipline isn’t going to help. As long as I’m home, she is free to roam around a large rabbit proof area of the living room and the kitchen. I was just trying something different with the discipline approach, she was only kept in the cage for 30min after the pee fit. She definitely knew I wasn’t happy. When I let her out of the cage, she laid next to me for an hour while I pet her. No peeing, either.
Anyways, I thought 5 weeks post surgery would be enough time but I’ll just be patient.
The tarp/mats are a good idea, but she currently has too much space. Maybe I’ll reduce the space she can free roam temporarily so she doesn’t feel the need to mark a lot.
Thanks guys

[sarahthegemini]

Well raising your voice slightly is different to shouting in my opinion. I think what you might be referring to is if a bun nips a bit too hard, you can make a high pitched squeal to let them know it wasn’t okay (that’s what bun mums do in the wild) so that might be where the confusion was. I don’t know if raising your voice a little will have the same effect.

[ColorfulBun]

I am not a rabbit expert, Phoebe is my first, but I have a suggestion that you could try Whenever you see her about to go to the bathroom (lifting her tail etc) Try to shoo her to where you want her to go. My rabbit still isn’t spayed and she goes to the bathroom on my bed when I’m not looking. But whenever I catch her up there she knows she’s not allowed and she hops right off of the bed. Cause whenever she was up there I would shoo her off of the bed and into her cage, and she would immediately go to the bathroom.

[IAmGroot87]

Thanks Colorful Bun!
The difficult part is the majority of the time, she leaves a spot without lifting her bum so I have no idea when it’s going to happen.
The more I think about it, I might want to have the vet look at her. The spots are usually always clear, and she drinks a TON of water. I would say 25 ounces a day on average, and she only weighs 2.6 pounds. She does eat fist fulls of hay daily, though and poops a ton.
I just did some research and learned that urinary incontinence could be from UTI or various other issues.
She acts fine aside from that, though. Gets excited, hops around and explores, etc.

[Asriel and Bombur]

Bombur has EC and his primary symptoms are kidney related. He pees without lifting his tail and frequently dribbles urine and pees outside the box. He also drinks a ton. These only happen during a flare up for him though. So if you test for a UTI and it comes back negative, I’d also ask to test for EC just to be on the safe side.

[FlemishDad]

She is drinking and presumably peeing about 4 times the maximum normal amount so it is not really a surprise she is having litter box issues. Our rabbit was also drinking far more than normal and he was having litter box issues too. In his case it was from kidney failure. He improved although not completely to normal after a course of Pancur treatment, so in his case the kidney failure was probably from an EC infection.

While sometimes rabbits just drink a lot it is definitely worth a trip to the vet to check for more serious issues.

[ColorfulBun]

I heard something about Gall bladder stones being a cause of excessive drinking, not sure if I am correct or not… My rabbit isn’t spayed, but she leaves spots around occasionally. It’s more often my bed she has a huge accident on. I’m pretty sure in her case it’s territorial, because she poops everywhere for marking.

[IAmGroot87]

Appreciate all the replies!
I’ll keep you updated on my findings.

The last 3 days she hasn’t left any pee spots anywhere, so I’m hopeful that it was just hormonal. She drank about 20 ounces yesterday but she also ate fist fulls of hay, and she always drinks during and after eating hay.

[Missy B]

I am having much of the same issues as you are. I thought from everything I’ve read about litter box training after neutering my bun Trixie would take right to using his litter box immediately following his neutering, but it’s been a week and he is no better. I see now from what I’ve read on here that it can take a month or more to have him completely litter trained. So know that you’re not alone in your frustration. Here’s to hoping both of our buns figure this out once the hormones balance out!

[IAmGroot87]

Hey Missy.

If it matters, it’s now been almost a week and she hasn’t left a spot outside of her litter box at all. If it was purely hormonal, it took her over 5 weeks post surgery to kick the behavior. As someone stated above, they can actually have a hormone surge post surgery, which did happen to Zelda. Her behavior got worse until just last week. As long as she’s not showing signs of any other health related problem, I would give it at least another 4 weeks.

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