Optimal Position of Litter Box and Food?

[Deleted User]

I’m sorry for the plethora of posts from me lately… I’ll try to keep them (and my excitement over finding this forum) down to a minimum from now on! 

Edmund began his first day of litter box training yesterday, and I think it’s going quite well so far. We’re using a very basic plastic litter box for cats from PetsMart with Carefresh bedding (I still haven’t confirmed whether or not the other litter made of pine is safe for him).

He’s taken to the litter box very nicely. He doesn’t lay in it, but he doesn’t mind sitting in it and spending his time there. At first, I put some hay directly inside the litter box, which didn’t work out so well because he was able to eat it while standing outside the litter box (causing him to defecate outside the box). I then tried installing a hay rack above the litter box, and it’s worked great thus far. It’s forced him to climb into the litter box to get to the hay.

He’s already urinating in the box (and I think he’s pooping there as well), but my issue is that he’s pooping A LOT by his pellet dish. Not just a few here and there that can be ignored, mind you… It’s about 50/50 between there and the litter box. Here’s a layout of the cage to give you an idea of what’s happening:

I know it’s because when he eats out of the pellet dish, he’s sitting outside the litter box and just pooping while he’s eating. Sometimes, he eats from the pellet dish while he’s inside the litter box, which is great, but not always… I’ve tried putting the pellet dish over the litter box like the hay rack, but the pellet dish then becomes to high for him to reach inside. 

I’ve also tried putting some vinegar on the area outside the litter box, but it hasn’t dissuaded him one bit from pooping there.

Any ideas? (If it helps, he’s been pooping there in addition to pooping and urinating in the corner where the litter box is long before I put the litter box in the corner…)

[Elrohwen]

Can you attach the pellet bowl to the actual litter box? Then it won’t be too high for him

[Monkeybun]

Some pople have had success with putting the pelle tbowl in the litter box. Then they can eat and go as they please

[Beka27]

Posted By Merbella on 06/04/2010 10:50 AM

I’m sorry for the plethora of posts from me lately… I’ll try to keep them (and my excitement over finding this forum) down to a minimum from now on! 

…

He’s taken to the litter box very nicely. He doesn’t lay in it, but he doesn’t mind sitting in it and spending his time there. At first, I put some hay directly inside the litter box, which didn’t work out so well because he was able to eat it while standing outside the litter box (causing him to defecate outside the box). I then tried installing a hay rack above the litter box, and it’s worked great thus far. It’s forced him to climb into the litter box to get to the hay.

This is a big thing.  Same thing happened with my pair until I fixed the hay box over the litterboxes.  Now they can ONLY reach it when they are inside the box. 

I would try moving the pellets/greens to the opposite side of the cage.  They shouldn’t need the pellets by their litterbox, it’s too confusing.  Litter and hay go together, everything else should be separate.  Try that and see how it goes.  If he’s at 50% right now, I think that’s really good for just starting out!

A neat thing I read about dropping poops and eating hay:

Rabbits do this in the wild so as they are eating fresh grasses, they are dropping “fertilizer” at the same time.  It helps ensure they will have food in the future.  It helps explain why they poop while they eat.

 

[AbigailBW]

 Does he get free roam?  It may be to early for this anyway, but we give ours there pellets outside of the cage.  Our two have a 3 level NIC condo and they never poop on the top two (carpeted) levels or outside, where they are free to roam whenever we are home.  One of ours, Charlie, only ever poops in the boxes, but Ruby pretty much thinks the whole bottom floor of the condo is close enough.  If they don’t finish their pellets while out in the am, and I put the dish on the bottom floor of the cage, there will be poops — yet they never poop while eating in the living room.  

 

[jerseygirl]

AbigailBW, that is similar to what I see. I feed the rabbits in the living room often now and it’s poop free. In their area, they’ll poop. Particularly the female…and now the male is starting to mark as well. Sheesh!

[Deleted User]

Thanks, everyone, for your help!

Elrohwen and Monkeybun, I tried putting the pellet dish into the litter box, and guess what? He still poops in that one little spot outside of the litter box! I don’t get it… The only thing I can think of (other than he’s just used to pooping there since that’s where he used to sit to eat the pellets) is that maybe he’s marking his territory near the door because that’s where my “dreaded hand” enters his domain?

Beka27, I’ll try moving his pellets to the opposite side of the cage. I’m a little worried that he’ll start pooping there though…

I’m proud of him for urinating and pooping in the litter box while he’s eating his hay though! I just wish I wasn’t so allergic to the hay… Aargh.

AbigailBW, I’m currently limiting his “free roam” space to litter box train him. Which reminds me, I am in dire need of an X-Pen. Does anyone know where I can find one at a reasonable price?

[Deleted User]

UPDATE: I moved his pellet dish to the other side of his cage and now there are two poop piles outside of his litter box rather than just one… *sigh*

[jerseygirl]

What type of hay are you feeding? They’re are some other types that are good for rabbits but people with allergies cope better with. Orchard grass hay, oat hay.

What size is Edmunds litter box? I find rabbits will squeeze into confined corners and litter there if given a chance. e.g. Like the area between the box and the condo walls where pellet dish was. Perhaps if his box takes up more of that side of the condo, he’ll be less likely to poop outside the box?

Regarding X-pens, try looking for 2nd hand ones. Some members have picked them up at great prices 2nd hand.

[Deleted User]

Thanks so much for your comment, jerseygirl.

I’m feeding him Timothy hay. Which is generally better for people with allergies, orchard grass hay or oat hay? Is one cheaper than the other and/or better for a rabbit? Thank you so much for your help. You really are a lifesaver for this.

Edmund’s a 3 lb. Holland, and the litter box is 14″L x 10.25″W x 3.5″H. Would you recommend something even bigger?

Finally, what would you say is a decent price to pay for an X-Pen? $30, $40, $50, $60?

I’m sorry for all of the questions, and again, I really appreciate all of your help.

[Beka27]

Orchard is comparable in price to Timothy, or maybe a little bit more. Oat is more fattening, so most people only use it as a treat hay, not as the sole diet. I would recommend you try Orchard.

An xpen is about 70-80 dollars.  I recommend no shorter than 36″ tall, and I prefer the ones that have a walk-thru door for a person to walk into the pen.  Some of the less expensive pens only have small square openings in the middle, so the animals can go in but not the person.  This is not practical with rabbits since you have to go in to clean and whatnot.  Xpens are cheaper than most manfuactured cages (of proper size) and if you build your own condo, you’ll spend the same amount (if not more) on supplies.

[RabbitPam]

The next thing to try is to take all of the poos that he’s leaving outside the litter box as soon as you see them and pick them up and toss them into the litter box. It’s hard on you for the next week or so, but it gives him the message that they always belong in the litter box. don’t let any sit out once you see them, and toss them into the box rather than out, so he has more in the litter rather than having them just disappear.

If still no success, slide the litter pan into the corner where he left the first poos. Move the hay rack accordingly. He may just feel a bit more comfortable in that place or direction. Bunnies are actually weird little Interior Decorators, and very fussy about how their houses are arranged. (I get letters of complaint about Petzy from her quartet, Lint types you know, frequently. ) Seriously, placement is important to them, and they use types of misbehavior to communicate displeasure. Like living with a mime, really.

[jerseygirl]

Sorry for my late reply to your question regarding hay. Thankfully Beka addressed it. Tim hay is one of the main culprits with allergy. Try some different types of hay or even cuts of Tim hay. Using non bagged hay can reduce dust, handling it with gloves and wearing a mask may help too. Do a search here as many members have posted about hay allergies before.
As for price, I don’t think there would be a great difference. It depends on what is most available in your area.  I feed oat as it it is what is most available here. I don’t find it is fattening though I believe it could be if feeding too many of the grain heads that come with the hay. As for it’s fibre, I think it is even higher than Tim hay.  Hope you find one that you can live with & that Edmund likes.

[Kiley Rose]

Also check out some garage sales for xpens…I got a nice, almost brand new one for $10!

[Deleted User]

Thanks so much, Beka27, RabbitPam, jerseygirl and Kiley Rose! I’m going to try feeding Edmund some Orchard Hay. I’m worried he’s gaining too much weight as it is, so I don’t want to risk him gaining any more with the Oat. :/

Good news on the litter box front! Edmund is urinating and pooping EXCLUSIVELY in his litter box while he’s in his cage. In his play area (i.e., my bathroom), he occasionally marks, but he’s getting better. (He was neutered not too long ago, so I think his hormones are still calming down.)

I’m on the hunt for an X-Pen. I’ll keep you guys posted with what I can find.

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