Offended bunnies

[MadRabbit]

Hello all,

We are at our wits end and looking for help.  We adopted a pair of bonded rabbits from a shelter about 4 months ago.  They are about 4-5 years old, neutered; the shelter was not sure of their ages and their previous history is unknown.  It seems that anything we do simply offends them or scurry out of the way.  All the signs are there, the thump, foot flick, ears back, etc. 

We’re not sure how to build trust with them.  We’ve given them raisins and they like that.  Sometimes we can feed them hay by hand.  But when the treats disappear, they’re mad.  They don’t like to be touched.  It’s hard to approach them without scaring them.  They don’t run off, but usually startled.  They have not been aggressive, though.  At times, we feel we are forcing ourselves on them, like petting them after giving treats, just to reinforce the idea that we’re not going to hurt them. 

Cleaning their cage is a problem since they don’t want to leave.  The door is open so they have free roam.  We let them know that we’re cleaning the cage by filling their food and water first.  Still they don’t leave, which forces me to clean out the cage with them in it.  They thump at me, but what can I do?  It needs to be done and I can’t wait for them forever.  The cleaning is daily.

We try to spend time with them.  It’s hard since both of us work.  When we do have time, we just sit or lie near them, either outside their x-pen or a few feet from them.  They show little to no interest to us, often times turning away from us or groom themselves.  Offer a hand and they reject it.  It’s hard to tell if they want quiet time or not.  They are not active during the day, but shows signs of activity past midnight.  We’re not sure how to play with them.  The seemed annoyed when we place a cardboard tube in front of them. 

I guess the question is how should we build trust with them.

We have many questions and almost doubting our decision.  We do love our rabbits.  Just wish we had some affection from them. 

 

[(dig)x(me)x(now)]

Oh wow, this really sounds frustrating. I don’t have much to offer right now, but there are several members with experience with similar situations, so you will definitely be getting great advice soon!

[Alicia Conklin]

This is what I did with Tucker.  At first she was the SAME way.

Before we had her in a pen she had a smaller cage so we would put her in the hallway with baby gates up on each end.  To bond with her I would sit in there with her and just sit.  She’d come by and sniff me and be on her merry way.  I wouldn’t try to pick her up, wouldn’t follow her and only if she was still by me would I try to pet her at all.  Eventually you could see the shift in her to where she WANTED the pets! She’d present as if to say “hey hooman where’s my pets??” and I’d pet her and she became more and more used to me.  Even then she did NOT like hands in her cage. 

We then switched to a NIC condo with a pen around it.  Again, most of my bonding with her was done in the pen.  She felt safer there like it was her space and also she had her condo there to run into if it got too much for her.  Still at that time she wasn’t so big on me being into her condo.  To clean it I’d go in there into the pen..once she came out I’d detach the pen and circle it around so that the pen was closed off just by itself.  Then she’d play in the pen either alone, with my husband or with me while he cleaned.  That way she wasn’t offended that I was cleaning her cage.  I always left treats around in there so that she knew me being in the cage was a good thing.

Now, she has just the pen.  She doesn’t mind if I am in there and that it still to this day where I go with her if I need her to actually come to me, to do feet checks, etc.  She’s much calmer there because she feels at home.  She has a shelf now instead of a cage but I try to leave her alone up there.  I only go into that shelf area (it’s a covered shelf..like a big cubby hole) to replenish hay.  When I clean it I use a vacuum up there because that way it’s not ME in there..it’s just the vacuum hose with the big stick thing attached to it.  She’s gotten better now where she WILL let me go in there if I haven’t done anything “bad” to her in the last day or so lol. 

So basically my point is try a smaller space.  When we give Tucker the whole room/whole bottom floor she’s too busy either lounging and watching the going ons or exploring to be bothered with us.  She doesn’t always have the whole floor or whole room so to her she’s going to make the most of it while she is out.  That might be what’s going on with your two too.  Even if you don’t have a pen or hallway maybe a small room like a bathroom or laundry room would work out.

[Ruffles&Daisy]

I was sort of wondering the same thing about rabbits. Ruffles is actually pretty good about people. I think he enjoys us and is coming around to trusting us more (we’ve only had him a week and a half). But I was telling my husband that I’ve never had a pet that I had to work so darn hard for getting affection from (it’s frustrating). I guess I can see why people give up and say forget it. I think it can just take a long time with rabbits. Hopefully other people can offer some real good advice. I’d love for my bun to hang out right next to me a little more.

[Alicia Conklin]

Well rabbits are prey animals and alot of other pets (dogs and cats) aren’t.  Another thing with bunnies is they have a good memory and some have been abused/neglected in the past which leads them to being untrusting right off the bat.  And, alot of times other animals that come from shelters are the same way and the trust needs to be built up with them, our cat was that way. 

[GHbun]

One of my buns responded to grooming invitations. I’d sit in her direct sight line (to her side) and groom myself: smooth my hair, stroke my face, etc., and then hold out a hand in an offer to groom her. If she dipped her head, it was a yes. I guess she thought that if anyone was getting groomed around here, it should be her. And there’s nothing wrong with you taking the disapproving rabbit posture. Thump back when they do it to you, or try turning your back on them when you groom yourself. Perhaps this would work better if only one was out at a time.

[Alicia Conklin]

You know that’s a good point Tamera, I bet if it was only one of them out they might respond better to you. If they’re together they might just prefer that company.

[MarkBun]

Try opening up the cage, sitting down on the floor and reading a book. The buns will ignore you for a bit but then they’ll wonder what you’re doing with that ‘flippy page thingy’ and come over to investigate. Just ignore them. They will begin to realize that everytime they see you, it isn’t about you getting in their space or to touch them and they’ll become more relaxed over time. I have a bun who after 4 months has just begun to start climbing on me to see what I’m up to. It’s a long, patient road…

[MadRabbit]

Can I sit inside the x-pen area?  Or is that violating their space?  I know they really don’t like my hand inside their cage, but sometimes I can pet them in their cage.  However, it seems almost like they admit defeat and let us touch them. 

Should I reard them for sniffing us out?  Or does that reinforce the idea that I’m just here for food and treats?

[Sage Cat]

You have gotten some good advice so far.
Marcusdark is right – It’s a long, patient road…

It is tough since you have no idea what may have happened to them before they got to the shelter – my guess is it was not very positive.
I don’t think they are mad – just scared.
Since I have always had cats & dogs – I too am in the habit of “offering a hand”to see if they want pets – it took them a while to figure out what I was doing, but now they know what it means.
I have also thumped at my buns when they do something they should not – it totally worked!
Oh yea, that ‘flippy page thingy’ gets my buns every time.

Good luck – let us know how it goes

[Alicia Conklin]

maybe sit in the ex-pen and read?  That way you’re in there but you’re not bothering them.  They might feel better if they have their space, the cage, but then the ex-pen is “community space”.   Does the ex-pen connect to the cage? so that they have the choice of coming out into the pen or going into their cage?

 

[Balefulregards]

At the risk of sounding ridiculous, I also talked to Coco ALOT during her first weeks/months in our bedroom. Just reflective talking, describing what she as doing, what I was doing, Etc. Making alot of eye contact – not threatening, but kind of “Hey, I know you are there” stuff.

She has her days where she looks like she could care less..then HOP up onto my bed and onto the laptop. This means “You must pet me and give me satisfactory nose rubbing right now”…then off she goes back to her spot as guard rabbit on the rug.

In Coco’s situation, she had been neglected and abandoned in a nearly pitch black basement in her cage. A big part of my decision to house her in our bedroom had to do with intensive socialization. It took nearly 4 months to get a binky or flop from her, and a good two months before she lay next to me with her bum on my leg. Two months of me doing nearly all of my writing on the floor near her pen.

So yes – LONG and Patient – but so very worth it. And nothing like a cat or dog. Very, very similar to socialization that I have had to do with abused and neglected children in my real profession. Accessibility. Consistency. No sudden movements. Humor. Patience.

[MarkBun]

Rabbits become more relaxed when they hear your voice. It is often recommended that when you bring a new bun into the home, the first thing you do after putting them in their cage is to have a half hour long phone conversation with someone. I don’t know why but it seems to calm them a bit.

Yes, read in the the x-pen. The important thing though is to make sure that they have room to move around you. You can put your back against one ‘wall’ of the x-pen as long as your feet aren’t blocking the other side. You will definitely get a bunny climb up your side as they’re curious to see if they might be able to get out that way. The hard thing is to NOT pet them or make any moves towards them. They’re just too cute when they put their paws on you. If you get a nudge or a nibble, you can say “yes?” or “hello.” in a calm tone. The bun wants your attention but if he moves away after you say hello to them, don’t pursue it. If they sit there, you can try a pet but don’t be offended if they run off when you do.

[MadRabbit]

How much time shoud we spending with them?  A few minutes here and there?  Several hour sessions?  It’s hard to find quality time, especially on the weekdays.  We do talk to them often.

Should we relocate the cage to a more high traffic area?  Someplace where they can see us all the time?  I thought rabbits like it quiet. 

[Ruffles&Daisy]

A lot of great suggestions. You guys know your stuff about bunnies. Baleful, that’s so sad that your bunny experienced that. It really makes me sad when people mistreat or neglect their pets. It must have been lonely and scary for her. How long do you think she’d been down there?

[Lightchick]

I think rabbits ARE quiet…but I’m not sure isolation from noise and people is the best bet… Maybe moving them to a more high-traffic area is a good idea. That way they get used to your habits and your voice and your presence.

And if a few-minutes here and there is all you have, then by all means, give them that…but if you normally spend an hour in the morning on a weekend drinking coffee in a coffee shop, maybe consider making it at home and drinking it on the floor with your bunny… It is absolutely NOT quick and painless, but ABSOLUTELY worth it!

[MadRabbit]

our suggestions.  It is very clear we need to spend time with them. 

I have one more question.  We brush the bunnies once a week.  We take them outside early morning so it’s cooler and they get some sunlight.  We know rabbits don’t like being picked up, but does this kind of undo the trust that we are working so hard for?  They don’t trust us yet, but we then we go ahead and pick them up.  Should we continue brushing them weekly?  I hope this isn’t a step backwards.

 

[MooBunnay]

In response to the last questions about brushing them outside, I would recommend putting that on hold for a bit. It is definitely a good idea to groom your bunnies, and it can be a good bonding time, but if you are picking them up it can definitely be leading to the dis-trust. I do not think there would be any harm in skipping these grooming sessions for a few weeks while you work on gaining their trust. In lieu of the grooming session, you can do one of the activities that the other members recommended such as reading in their cage, or just havinga conversation while sitting outsdie their cage. I do think that since the initial trust is not there, that picking them up may be adding to the situation. I usually do all my grooming wtih the bunny sitting on the floor, they feel safer that way, so it is easier to get them to sit still, and it is a better way to bond with them because they are not as scared as they are when picked up. So once you get a bit more of a trusting relationship, try starting up the grooming again, but this time just with them sitting on the floor or somewhere they feel comfortable.

[MarkBun]

You can spend as little as 15 minutes in the cage with them – 30 would be better and longer is always great. The important thing is to give them about 10 minutes of continued pen time after you get up. You don’t want them to associate your getting up with them getting picked up. An interesting experiment if there are two of you is to have one remaining sitting in the pen while the other goes to take the buns out. It would interesting to see if they run towards the sitter in order to get away from the picker-uper.

[Sage Cat]

I have my buns in a high traffic area – they are very social & want to know what is going on around them.

Since I rarely talk on the phone, I read out loud to my buns – especially when I first got them. They actually com over to listen!

[Alicia Conklin]

Do you read them the Peter Rabbit stories?

 

wait that might lead to trouble..Peter was a naughty little bun!

[kralspace]

Mine love being in the middle of what’s going on and being able to disapprove of everything.

I’ll leave the radio on to a talk station or be listening to my book tapes while I work on the computer and Lola and Daisy will come as close as they can in the condo and sit snuggled side by side, ears forward listening for as long as I leave it on. Right now, they are enthralled by Harry Potter and the Half Blood Prince.

[Sage Cat]

Don’t even kid – I read Watership Down to them!

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

All good advice so far-keep us posted on your progress!! And Welcome to binkybunny!!

I know it’s frustrating to spend so much time building trust when a random dog will follow you off a cliff and to the ends of the earth. BUT that’s what I find really rewarding….Dogs and other animals love you right off the bat, even if your a little stinky and maybe not that nice LOL

When a rabbit loves you/trusts you-YOU DESERVE IT and it’s special.

 

My bf teases me about it, but for instance, I took home Rupert. A shy shelter bunny who would run away from any movement. He liked to hide from pretty much anything.

Now, he comes when I call him (usually, but you know rabbits’) He doesn’t hide and his attitude is frequently “Is that ALL you bought me?? cheap…” LOL He’s got rabbitude, personality AND he trusts me to carry him with one arm-I could barely pick him up before.

So theres defintiely hope-keep trying

[MadRabbit]

Update:

It appears that she seems a bit scared of us, a little bit jumpy.  She hasn’t approached us yet, unless we bring raisins.  As for him, every sign says he is totally offeneded or mad at me.  I’ve tried giving him raisins, but once they they run out, he turns and thumps at us.  So how do I fix this problem?

[Sage Cat]

Maybe if you tell us what you have tried / not tried in the last few weeks we could help you more?

[Author]

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