Not having any success after several months. Please help!

[Arlo86]

I am going to try to add as much info as possible so I apologize in advance if this is a long post.

So I have 3 lovely bunnies that I am trying to bond. Two males(Scout and Sawyer) and a female(Sammy). All of them are fixed, Sawyer was the last to get fixed and that was in the first week of February. The female, Sammy, and Scout are a bonded pair that I have had for a year. Sawyer came to me unexpectedly in late January and was not fixed so I kept him separate until he was and the healing process and last bit of hormones were out before I tried to introduce everyone.

So here is what has happened. The female and new guy got along fine. Sawyer mounted her once and after that they get along like cake and ice cream. The boys are a different story. From minute one scout has tried to attack Sawyer. Not just fur pulling, but actual bunny hurricanes and one incident ended with a trip to the vet for the new guy. This even happened the first introduction time in neutral space that was set up to give them space to run away and hide but not too much space. Any scuffle was broken up immediately since it was obvious this wasn’t mild fur pulling or mounting. To clarify, Scouts biting was so aggressive that the first intro ended with me needing stitches because he bit me because I was holding Sawyer. Scout has never been aggressive before.

So after neutral space intros didn’t work I attempted stress bonding by taking them on car rides, a vet trip, etc. Even under those conditions scout tried to attack. Poor Sawyer just wants to love him and can’t seem to understand why he’s being attacked. He has only bit scout once and that was in self defense. I wish I had videos to show what happens.

So for the last 6 weeks I have been keeping them apart and swapping them spaces so they get used to each other’s smells. And I have recently began setting up an X-pen so they can see each other but not attack as easily. Scout tried to bite through The bars still. The problem is I don’t have the space to set them up next yo each other, so they are confined to separate rooms unless the pen is set up. And even then I have to be vigilant because Sawyer can clear the 3.5 feet to get in. I’ve never seen a bunny jump so high! I did get them to share space once. For about 20 minutes, they even snuggled, but then scout changed his mind and ran away and tried to fight Sawyer 10 minutes later.

I keep Sammy and Scout together since they are fully bonded, and Sawyer gets the cats as friends. But this set up is stressing everyone out since no one gets free range of the house anymore.

I am just not sure what to do anymore. I try to take baby steps and nothing seems to help. I can clarify if I need to and please ask questions if you need more information. I just need help here. Does this seem like a hopeless endeavor and I should be looking to find a way to better keep them permanently separated in the house? Or should I just keep trying? I feel like the only issue is scout, and I can’t figure out why he hates Sawyer so bad. When I tried stress bonding and sticking them in a dry tub Sawyer tried to groom scout. Scouts response was to try to bite his face off. Please please please help!!

[BanditCamp]

It sounds like your doing everything correctly. The onlt suggestion I can offer is stress bonding both boys, basically two people and driving them around for awhile in a nic cube or kennel. Bring a dust pan to block their approach and look for signs. Sometimes a trio doesn’t work out and one has to be seperated from the others so keep that in mind.

Search stormyrabbits bonding vlog on YouTube to see what I mean about stress bonding

[Arlo86]

I’ve tried stress bonding. I always take all 3 though since the bonded two get stressed when they are separated. But car rides don’t help either. Are you suggesting I try stress bonding with only the two boys? Or to just keep stress bonding? I’m just feeling like after 8 tries at car rides some bit of progress should be made. I’m not sure when to accept that they won’t ever get along and to just figure out how to house them separate.

[Luna]

Don’t feel too defeated – I’ve heard that bonding a trio is definitely tricky business. How long did Scout and Sawyer go through pre-bonding? I’m a little puzzled by the fact that at one time they did co-exist peacefully for 20 minutes and snuggled too. Did that happen recently or was it in the very beginning?

[Arlo86]

I’m not sure what you mean by prebonding! Did I miss a step? The snuggle session happened about 2 weeks ago. And it’s honestly gone downhill since then. So I’m seriously stumped. I also have heard trios are difficult so I’m just not sure what’s normal here. I have no issues trying anything for as long as I should. I just don’t know what to do from here.

[Luna]

Just re-read your post – looks like you already did prebonding with the space swapping, etc. I don’t know much on bonding, but I think the next step is separating them for a few weeks if there are serious fights happening. There’s some good bonding info under the BB “Bunny Info” page, and also at http://rabbit.org/category/behavior/multiple-rabbits/. You could also private message BB member Mikey who has bonding knowledge/experience.

[vanessa]

Dont do stress bonding just yet!!!! They need a break!!! Sawyer needs time to mend his hurt feelings and scout needs time to chill out. Maybe a month of not even seeing eachother. Then… go back to prebonding. Take your time. If scout is aggressive thru a fence, increase the distance. It took me 10 months and 3″breaks” to bond one of my pairs. A trio is even harder. Be patient, but please give them a break.

[Arlo86]

Vanessa, if you check this again, when you say give them a break would you recommend not even swapping them spaces? I partially do this so they all get a change if scenery and access to different parts of the house, IE who gets to sleep on mom’s bed. But if I need to give them that much of a break I can figure something out. I’m willing to try anything and give it as much time as needed. I’d hopefully just like to keep any other stress to the minimum in the meantime if that makes sense.

Luna, I’ve been reading through as many of the binding pages I can and will keep reading where you sent me. I downloaded the PowerPoint from rabbit.org a few weeks ago to try all those suggestions. I think I just have moody bunnies and Scout is my diva. I also wonder if the fact that all 3 rabbits come from neglect/abuse backgrounds is a part of the problem. I just wish I spoke rabbit!

[vanessa]

Yes arielle, a comlete break. Swapping items is prebonding, and i think that after all that attacking they need to have a break. No seeing or swapping. Bunnies can develop hate (scout), and mistrust/hurt feelings (sawyer). With difficult bondings it is common to have to take a complete break.

[Arlo86]

Thanks for the clarification Vanessa. I will get it sorted out so I can give them a complete break for a little while. Hopefully that will help reset things. And hopefully the split house won’t stress everyone out too much. I have a feeling the cats are going to be the most miserable. But it’s hopefully short term. The fighting is much more disruptive for everyone!

[vanessa]

Yeah it feels frustrating too, but some bondings are just more dificult than others. I always felt very impatient during my last pair’s 3 separate breaks. But Guinevere was just so aggressive with Lancelot. For a while I tried a trio with her and the other two – coz I just didn’t think it woudl work with Lancelot. 10 months later they were snuggly wuggly. It was a long 10 months…

[Arlo86]

Well I’m in it for the long haul. Even if they never get along. I just really hope they learn to. I think everyone would be happier!

[vanessa]

It’s difficult to decide when to stop. I think it depends on the rabbit, and how much stress they can handle. Here’s to hoping our bunnies learn to get along! 😀

[Arlo86]

Not sure if any of you will see this. But wanted to update everyone anyway. I separated everyone for 3 weeks. No contact. Then tried to do a greeting with the boys in a neutral space. Scout attacked in less than 10 second and Sawyer was extremely scared. So I separated them again. I also made the decision at that point to give up on trying to bond them as a trio. It Was just causing too much stress in my house. So I made some modifications to how I have things set up and starting looking for a new rescue bunny for Sawyer. After a few play dates that went well but didn’t seem quite right, we found a match. It was love at first sight for Sawyer and our new little girl Suede. From the minute they met they started snuggling and grooming each other. We brought her home and they haven’t had any issues. Sawyer has gotten visibly happier and can’t stop doing binkys. So for me this is a happy ending. All my animals are happy, my house isn’t a war zone, and I got to save another rescue bunny. Thank you everyone for your advice.

[Luna]

Yay! That’s awesome that you saved another bun, and also now everyone has a mate. I like how you kept the S names: Scout and Sammy, Sawyer and Suede. It may not be the result you were looking for, but at least all are happy .

[vanessa]

That’s great news. It is indeed difficult to decide when to stop trying, but I’m glad it all worked out for you. Happy bunnies = happy house 🙂

[Arlo86]

Luna, we also hsve Squeaks and Sweetheart. It’s s mouthful sometimes! It may not be the exact result I wanted. But it is a good result. I wanted a happy household. And I have that!

Vanessa, thank you for all the advice as well. Giving up on bonding was a really hard choice, but easier than watching my buns fight.

[Author]

Messages