Not Good with Kids

[Beka27]

i know someone posted recently that her bun had bitten her son and i responded in that thread about my Meadow and what i do with her. 

but how do rescues/shelters determine that a particular rabbit is not good with kids?  and can this ever be overcome?  as the child gets older will the behavior resolve itself?  i don’t quite understand aggression when it’s only aimed towards children and there is no aggression towards the adults…  Meadow is the sweetest most affectionate bunny towards Mike and myself… but around Michael… watch out…

i try to be so careful when he is near them, but she just blindsided us today while we were laying on the floor interacting with Max and she bit his leg hard (thru his jeans, it left a welt).  also, i’m not sure if it was meant to be a mean bite or just a “move!” nip… b/c he was kinda laying down and blocking the doorway.

is there something else i should be doing besides just not allowing them to be anywhere near each other?  i am careful to pet her head if he is petting her back.  but in this case, she snuck up on him.

and i feel like such a jerk b/c of course he then cries for 5 minutes straight and calls her a “mean bunny!” so i’m trying to calm him down and explain to him how she is (and he’s only 5, so he doesn’t really care.)

i’m expecting (hoping) to have her for at least ten more years, so can i expect things to be better when he is ten or 15, or will she always have animosity towards him?

 

sigh…

 

[Sarita]

Oh no! I really cannot speak to children and rabbits since I don’t have children.

I can only speak to biters since I have one and I honestly cannot get him to stop – I don’t understand it myself but it hurts like heck. I haven’t been able to stop the biting either and have just put up with it or been careful around him which isn’t easy – he does love affection but he does bite – I have to wonder if he thinks that is affection.

I don’t think any rescue unless the rescuer actually has children could honestly tell if a rabbit is good with children unless they have children around the rabbit. They can only go on how the rabbit is with adults. The only thing we can go on is if they behave in a nippy way or bite people, we just would not adopt the rabbit to people with children, only to adults and to those people who have had rabbits and are willing to either put up with the biting or work with the rabbit.

I’m not sure anyone can honestly answer your question – they can only speculate like you are doing.

[Beka27]

i see. i wasn’t sure b/c i know on petfinder they have little icons that say no dogs/no cats/no kids… i didn’t know if this was actually a proven thing that they were able to evaluate… i’m gonna need to think on this subject a little bit more…

[Sarita]

Usually too in most cases the way a rabbit behaves (at least at the sanctuary I help at) is not always an indication of how they will behave in a new home – we actually hope they will become more outgoing and less shy if they are shy since they will have day to day interaction rather than the limited amount they receive at the sanctuary. Obviously a fostering situation might be different but our sanctuary is more of a “shelter” like situation since we have so many rabbits.

We can tell a cage aggressive rabbit and a biter but that does not mean that they will or will not be that way when they are in their own home. It is more likely they will tend to be aggressive or a biter though so those are the rabbits that either never get adopted or only adopted to people who have had rabbits before and understand before they adopt them what their shortcomings are.

And who can honestly say that the aggressive behavior or biting will stop even with working with the rabbit – if anyone tells you that it WILL definitely stop is not being truthful…just hopeful.

[TARM]

i’m not sure if it was meant to be a mean bite or just a “move!” nip… b/c he was kinda laying down and blocking the doorway.

I know this wasn’t the question but it shouldn’t matter if it was an intentional bite or a move nip…touching a person with teeth should be unacceptable either way. Also, explaining to a child “how the bunny is” with regard to biting isn’t really fair either. It’s an undesirable behavior and if it can’t be trained out then you have a need to protect your child from the biter, rather than teaching the child that he has to be careful to avoid getting bitten.

If it were me…I would limit out of cage time to when the child isn’t home OR designate an area where the bunny will not come in contact with him. If Meadow were a dog would you tell explain to your son “how she is”? Or would you do what you had to do in order to protect him from aggression?

I very honestly don’t know how to go about getting her to stop biting without risking another bite you your son. Digger has started biting people who put their hands in his cage so I’m the only one who reaches in there now. I haven’t been able to get him out of his cage all week, he runs all the way to the back corner and snaps if I get too close. It gets to a point where getting him out isn’t worth the stress on him so I just stand there and feed him treats out of my hand, which he takes very gently. Crazy rabbit.

[Sarita]

I think I would probably limit out of cage time though when your son is home unless I’m missing T&R’s point on this which is quite possible.

I do agree that biting is unacceptable but it cannot always be changed so you do have to change some things and I think T&R’s points are very good.

[TARM]

In the rescue I volunteer with the icon for no small children is always selected UNLESS a rabbit has proven to be pretty rock solid in temperament. Of course all potential families are screened and if there are children in the family their level of understanding and maturity are weighed pretty heavily before an approval or denial is decided. The only way to know for sure if a rabbit is gentle enough for children is to put them in a foster home where those things can be evaluated. Only unadoptables are put in foster homes with Bunny Lu…unless there are litters of babies. Babies can be fostered out until after they’re fixed…but our vet fixes them pretty early. They are amazing and they don’t have any issues with doing 3-4 month old females.

[kralspace]

I agree with Sarita, if it’s part of their personality, sometimes it just has to be worked around.

My Lola is a dedicated nipper, but we all know it, so if you’re going to pick her you put on a long sleeve thick shirt or a towel across your chest because she’s going straight for a boob-nip. She’ll try it 2 or 3 times right off the bat and if you’re prepared and hang on to her, she’ll give up and just cuddle like a big softie. I guess she figures it’s always worth a try…heheh, but yeow, she can sure leave a bruise if she gets in a clear shot. and then give you the “well, what did you expect?” glare.

[Beka27]

thanks for your response kralspace! i really think it is just her personality, which is kinda sucky b/c she is such a lovebug with me and Mike. i do hope she will be better with Michael as he gets older, until then i’ll have to be a bit more diligent with them. fortunately, it’s very rare that this happens (only maybe 4 or 5 times in the year since she’s reached maturity and been spayed). i really wish i knew the REASON tho… it might be possessiveness of me, she’s really not territorial at all. or like i said, it might be as simple as a “move! you’re in my way” nip…

[kralspace]

My son is 21 now, and grew up with most of the pets we still have now and I’ve noticed a weird thing. He was always rough-housing and playing with the cats/dog when he was younger, especially our bad tempered siamese cat. Their idea of play (the cat would sometime initiate it so I know he liked it) was Mike trying to hold and pet Katie while the cat is yowling, spittiing, biting trying to kill Michael. The cat would even sneak up behind Mike and tease him into playing and then act like a cornered tiger.

Mike is now darker haired, 21, a bit over 6 ft and is plays with them much more gently now. but you let ANY 3-8 yr old blond haired boy come in the house and the chase is on. It’s like Katie thinks it’s a young Mike again and aggressively tries to get something started. All the kid has to do is look his way and the cat snarls and spits, lays down with all four feet waving in the air. It’s a hoot and I have to explain to the kids that Katie is having a senior moment.

So maybe if a bun has been mistreated by a child in the past, he’s distrustful especially of anyone that reminds him of that kid?

[Beka27]

i don’t know what Meadow went thru before we got her. she was young tho, about 4 months and was either dropped off with a litter or was born to a pregnant mom at the shelter. i’m not entirely clear on which one. that is amazing about your cat tho and that’s a valid argument…

[Cassi&Charlie]

Charlie has this thing about my bf, he has ‘moments’ when he hates him. It doesn’t happen often but it sounds like a similar thing Beka.

A few days ago bf was sitting on the couch watching tv and Charlie SNUCK up behind him and bit a chunk out of him (thru a winter jacket so it was a massively hard bite) and then sat on the couch glaring at bf until we shooed him off (Charlie not bf). It wasn’t provoked at all, we weren’t in Charlie’s way, he just felt like biting bf. Now he never never does this to me but he can be really aggressive towards bf. We’ve put it down to jealousy or something similar. It comes out of the blue, nothing we’ve done has prevented this but since we’re older and understand it’s not a problem.

Explaining to a 5 year old on the other hand…not so easy.

[Erbear]

They said Jo couldn’t be near children and last week she was nose to nose snuggling with a 7 year old boy. It all depends on how calm the child is and letting your bun approach your kid on it’s terms…. Jo chose to hop over to the boy. He wasn’t grabbing for her, he was paying attention to the other bunnies and she came over to say hello. He was very sweet and let her sniff him and then petted her gently.

Maybe try letting your little one feed the rabbit some treats through the cage. Special treats that are extra yummy that only your son gives to the bunny. Let them bond on their own and do it slowly. And make sure that your son lets the bunny come to him… your rabbit might not trust your son fully and just wants nothing to do with him. Or try having your son be the one who “helps” you take care of the rabbit for a while. Like you’re there but he greets the bunny and lets her out for playtime or feeds her or whatever.

[BunMumTiff]

I was the one who posted about Oreo biting Daniel my 2.5 year old. We havent had any issues but Oreo doesnt want to come out of the cage anymore really….she seems to be older, as in doesnt hop much, lays around most of the time, seems frail…….but still has spunk…ANyways the biting hasnt happened again but thenagain he hasnt been on Daniels lap…he still feeds him treats and salad and such and ever nips him or bites or anything.

Maybe it is something on his cloes that smells good this was something I watch when he is out and about

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

Are we entirely sure it’s kids because they’re kids or kids for another reason….

I’m wondering if you helped Micheal assert dominance to her (pushing her head down, supervised of course, to show Meadow she can’t walk up and honk him like that) if that would work? Maybe they just aren’t allowed to interact with kids and see them as non-authority figures and that’s why they are being aggressive, they’re really being dominant??

Do not have kids but just my thoughts…

[Beka27]

Michael has always helped with the bunnies. he will carry salads, refill hay (altho i usually try to do it myself b/c he gets it everywhere…) both buns will take treats gently from his fingers. he cleans up toys in the bunny pen while i dump litterboxes. he has never once picked up either bunnies, he’s a very mature, mild-mannered child, and he picks up his toys regularly b/c he knows that the buns will chew them if he doesn’t. it is just the occasional, very rare occurence of aggression on her part that annoys me…

that’s a great idea having Michael hold her head down. i do that but it’s me so maybe she’s not bothered by it… that is precisely what i think i’m looking for. a way for him to be SAFELY dominant. even if we do long-sleeves (or a winter coat) and oven mitts, just to get the point across. i need to think like a bunny… she is a very important part of our family, so i’m just trying to figure out our next step…

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

Not that it would be out of character for a diva bunny to just pick someone at random to dislike and bite But I think maybe she’s just trying to dominate him (smaller humans easier to overtake and they also have access to the salad box!)

[hooty22]

Hahaha Cassi&Charlie, I have the same issue with my Felony. I’m in Pittsburgh and my boyf is currently in Ontario, Canada, but he comes down from time to time to visit. When he does, sometimes Felony is fine with him, sometimes he ignores him, and other times he’ll jump up on the couch between us and nip him right in the side. Luckily Fel isn’t a big bunny because I think he could probably do some damage.

My boyf and I have concluded that I’ll always be Felony’s girl, and my house will always be Felony’s house, and Fel just likes to remind the boyf with a nip that I’m just on loan to him.

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

^^ Or maybe Fel is playing the crotchety old dad, cleaning his guns on the porch when the boyfriend comes to pick up his daughter?

[babybunsmum]

beka has anyone suggested smell yet?  i mention this because pinky has bitten me every single time i have groomed in baby’s ‘area’ and not washed my hands off afterwards.  she never bites any other time so i am certain that baby’s scent causes the behavior.  i think it’s likely that children throw off a hormonal ‘scent’ that’s quite different from adults (or maybe a lack of hormonal scent) which buns pick up on.   that said… on the weekend my cousin’s 4yr old fed pinky spinach leaves without incident (tho pinky was in her cage the whole time) so ???

[Beka27]

it might be smell. i think it could be anything… and i’m not sure i’ll ever know 100% for sure why she does it. there does not seem to be any common thread betw/ the incidents, except most of the times it has happened, Michael has been just minding his own business, so it could be that she feels ignored by him? it could be that she views him like another bunny in the house and they’re not bonded… so *chomp*…? i don’t know enough about rabbit “psychology” to have a real answer…

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