Not eating, not pooping.

[LeahM]

The vet gets in at 7, I’ll go as soon as they can see me. It’s 4:45 now.

my bunny frank jr. turned 9 December 1.

he was acting totally normally  last night. He gets a tiny piece of banana that he runs for morning and night. He came for his banana. In the past, refusal of his banana has been and early sign that he was sick.

He gets puzzle boxes filled with things he loves every night and he didn’t even touch them. He didn’t eat a thing last night and he usually eats all night.  he also didn’t poop or pee last night. He’s acting pretty normally actually. I can tell he doesn’t feel good but he’s not stretching or flopping like he did when he had gas pain (when he was much younger). He’s in his litter box now and he’s grinding his teeth so I know he hurts.

I gave him some simethicone. I’ll take him to the vet. Here’s the kicker though. The only truly rabbit savvy vet in the area is on maternity leave until April. There’s a dr at another vet that sees rabbits so I’m taking him there but I don’t know what kind of care I will get.  I’m terrified.

I believe I have some reglan from his last surgery on hand but I know not to give it if there’s a blockage.

im going to do some tummy massage.  Give more simethicone and wait for the vet to open but I wanted to have you guys on hand for advice on what the vet tells me.

thank you.

1. 

[Bam]

We will be here!

Make sure your bun is kept warm – a poorly bun can get hypothermic, which is very dangerous.

Simethicone is good, reglan is, as you are saying, best held off on until you’ve seen a vet. Proper care for a GI stasis bun is fluid therapy with sub q fluids, often with an added vitamin B-complex. If the bun has a low temp, the fluids can be warmed up and the bun placed on a heat pad.

Pain relief should be given, because rabbits are very sensitive to pain. Many vets choose to take one or two x rays to rule out a blockage, and the rabbit should not have to be put under for that.

If a blockage can be ruled out, Reglan is a very good motility drug. If there is a likely blockage, fluid therapy should be continued.

When you get home, you will probably be instructed to continue meds and syringe feed him recovery food (for example Oxbow Critical Care) until he eats like he should again.

Here is a very good article on GIO stasis in buns: http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/ileus.html

Keep us posted!

 

[LeahM]

Ok hi!  Thank you!

I called the vet and while they are willing to see him, they really don’t see rabbits.  They are willing and can probably do an xray but can’t do labs.  oof.  I live in Humboldt county which is very rural and 5 hours away from the bay area, just to emphasize that there aren’t other easy options.

I did have pain meds and I gave him a dose and I’m keeping him warm.  He did feel cold but he’s feeling better.  Honestly his behavior is not that far off, I’ve seen him much sicker.  He’s hopping around and even started buzzing.  He did do one big stretch flop (like gas pain) and then he started sniffing around and he ate a piece of dill!

Still no poop 🙁

He also drank and drank and drank and drank.  I assume mostly because he usually gets lots of fluid in his greens that he didn’t touch.  I’ve seen him actually drink maybe 3 times in his life so it was definitely unusual behavior.

I gave him a dose of reglan, which I realize might be a mistake.  He does seem to be slightly improving.  But he goes and sits in his poop area and has produced nothing.

My hesitation with taking him in is the risk/benefit at this point.  Benefit is an xray, risk is stress and derailing the progress that he seems like he might be making. And covid and the fact that I can’t go in with him, so it will be extra stressful.  I’m not even sure about their ability to interpret an xray.  They are there all day, no appointments.  She encouraged me to watch him and call back in a little bit.

Summary of the morning:

• simethecone x3 doses
• drank lots of water
• lots of warming
• pain meds x1
• started nibbling dill and apple branches only, still refusing several favorites
• reglan x 1mg
• no poop

I have the ability to give SQ fluid, I’ve never done it for a rabbit, lots for a cat and I’m a nurse.  I have painmeds, simethicone, reglan, IV fluids and critical care on hand.

 

The picture of him is not today.  He just loves the fire.  But he is sitting by the fire at the moment, being his cute self.  He’s not really sitting and sulking with his back turned like I’ve seen him before when he was sick.

[Bam]

It does sound like he is improving. It also sounds like you are capable of caring for him yourself, since you are a nurse and knows what to look out for (hypothermia, dehydration, lethargy, a distended stomach -a bun’s abdomen should be very soft always.)

It is great that he drinks, but it may not be enough with oral fluids. If there is some sort of partial blockage, fluid therapy is extra important. On page 3 of this pdf there is some suggestions on dosage for sub q fluids:

http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/ileus.pdf

I would love it if you got to see some poop. It doesnt matter if its sticky or misshapen, as long as stuff starts to move through. If you can get him to hop around a little, that could help get things moving.

[LeahM]

Well I can’t get this picture to upload but…  WE HAVE POOP!

im heading to the store to get… one of everything I guess! Literally whatever he wants. I’ll update when I get back.

[Bam]

Oh, wonderful!!! 😃🐇

[LeahM]

well I really want to post poop pictures and a video of him eating because isn’t it just the best thing to see a bunny eat after not eating???  I LOVE the sound of happy chewing.

Is there a trick to posting pictures in replys?  It just keeps saying not allowed.

Thank you so much Bam.  It is so lonely to have sick animals, especially with covid and not having a trusted vet.  Thank you for your quick, helpful, kind and informative reply – as always.  I cannot thank you enough.  I know it takes time, and I know you have to say the same things over and over again.  You are a lifesaver.

I’ll probably update all day today.  Everytime he eats and poops 🙂  I suspect this was gas as he turned around pretty quick with the simethicone and pain meds (and warming too) – scary but feeling so much better now.  It’s SO worth it to be prepared.

[LeahM]

this song always involuntary pops into my head when my sick animals start eating again.

[Bam]

Thank you so much for your very kind words!

I’ve sent you a PM with info  about posting pictures. We would appreciate pictures!

 

[LeahM]

Frank eating with his smorgasbord of tantalizing options this morning.

[LeahM]

just now, relaxing by the fire

[LeahM]

poop! 😀

[LeahM]

demands refill

[LeahM]

well he didn’t eat his banana tonight 🙁  He ate half but left part of it on the floor.  he’s been nibbling all day but I guess not back to himself.  Darn darn darn.

[DanaNM]

Things can be very up and down with tummy issues. I would syringe feed him and keep up with the pain meds if you can! If you have sub-q fluids that would also be good to do.

Sugary things can make GI upsets worse, so he might be turning it down because he knows it’s not what he needs at the moment. One of my buns would always snub his pellets first when he was having GI trouble.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[LBJ10]

I wouldn’t be discouraged just yet. As Dana said, sometimes there is a bit of back and forth. He may still be improving, but the icky feeling is still coming and going. Keep doing what you’re doing, I’m sure he will be better soon.

[LeahM]

I *think* he’s pretty normal today.  I did give him critical care, simethicone, and pain meds last night.  He’s eating.  He only got a limited amount of his puzzle boxes last night but they were gone by morning. His poop is small and it’s hard to tell if he’s eating a normal amount.  He usually doesn’t eat all that much during the day, he’s more of a night eater but he just went for the pile of herbs I tossed in front of him, so that’s good.

I’m still nervous.  And I’m especially nervous that it’s his teeth.  Two years ago his teeth gave him a problem and it was sort of similar to this but not quite the sudden refusal of food that he had the other day.  But refusal of banana, eating small amounts, mostly cilantro.  What scares me though is that it is his teeth and I don’t know how to get it taken care of since he doesn’t have a vet until april at the earliest.  I feel like I need to make some sort of plan.  But I really worry about the stress of travel.  In addition of course to the stress of anesthesia.  And I don’t even know if it is his teeth!  I really wish I could assess them myself.  *sigh*  Well he’s at least eating some, and still seems perky enough.

[Bam]

It can take some time, even a couple of weeks, for the tummy to get back on track after a bout of GI trouble. I hope its not his teeth, since vet services are so limited due to covid. You could try giving him a bunny appropriate probiotic, because that can’t harm but it could perhaps help. Is he eating any hay?

I love the pictures 🥰

 

 

[LeahM]

He’s not a great hay eater, ever.  I grow orchard and timothy hay and he loves them as fresh grass, and yes he’s eating a little.  It’s the WORST time of year for him to get picky because the grass isn’t great right now and the garden isn’t either, there’s just less choices.  I did go through some other threads and ordered some of the options of hay for picky bunnies.  I did see him eat a piece or two of actual dry hay.  But he has also had some grass.

Is there a probiotic you suggest?  I gave him probiotics for a couple years after his first bout of gas and then it just kind of fell off and he really wasn’t having any GI problems.  I’d be interested in restarting though.

[Xxventanaxx]

Your boy is gorgeous.  I sure hope everything works out in the long run!

[LeahM]

he continues to act more normally every day 🙂  Thanks everyone!

And I’m still interested in a probiotic recommendation from anyone!  THANKS!

 

[DanaNM]

That’s great!

I’ve used Bene-bac before (the pre-made gel, not the powder). Can’t really say if it helped or not, but the bunnies liked it and a lot of people here have used it for their buns.

That said, the best thing for the bunny gut flora is hay hay hay hay. 🙂

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[LeahM]

thanks!  Do you know if hay is better than fresh grass?  does being dried improve the benefit to their gut?

[DanaNM]

There are some nutrients (I believe Vit A?) that develop when the hay cures in the sun. A variety of hays is even better (anecdotally I’ve heard that a combo of timohty, orchard, and bermuda seems very good for bunny tummies).

Fresh grass is also good, and can be especially helpful with tummy troubles because it is hydrating. Fresh grass can be treated as part of the green/veggie part of the diet. So they are both good, but in different ways. 🙂

If he has an ongoing selectivity for fresh grass over hay, it would prob be good to have his teeth checked. Sometimes with senior buns the slight changes in bone density can cause molar spurs in the senior years, that are usually taken care of with a single filing.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Bam]

I second what Dana says. I had a bun who refused hay, I gave him fresh grass on his vet’s orders. It was a bit tricky during winter, but since we rarely get snow here, it was possible, albeit with some effort. I used to go out in the dark and cut grass behind a school building 🤣

Benebac is a probiotic that many forum members have used successfully. I use a British brand of probiotics, I dont know how Brexit will affect the availability.

[LeahM]

Well yesterday I was just going to post an update that frank was doing great and last night he didn’t eat again.

Back to teeth grinding, anorexia and social withdrawal.  He was sitting in the sunroom this morning which is a favorite spot in the summer but not in the winter.

I’m so sad

He got pain meds and simethicone last night because he seemed off but it wasn’t enough.

I think I’ll do some fluid this morning which I haven’t done for a rabbit and I’m nervous.

The pain med instructions from his vet is 0.7 ml every 24 hours of meloxicam.  That was for surgery pain. Is it ok to give more?

thank you for your help again

[LeahM]

Well he’s eating cilantro now. Good grief. And a little poop. Something is most certainly going on but grateful that he’s eating something.

[LeahM]

I did give him more simethicone and a dose of reglan but he was eating within 10 minutes.  I’m pretty sure the reglan hadn’t done anything but maybe the simethicone. He also was warmed up at that point.  He’s pooping… tiny poops.

[Wick & Fable]

Pooping is great! That means the GI is running and tiny poop after a gastric discomfort is very normal, if you consider he wasn’t eating much during it.

The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.

[Bam]

Reglan can work pretty quickly. It’s a very good med that can be given every 6-8 hours if the situation calls for it.

Weirdly shaped poop, tiny poops, even splotchy, mushy poop with various degrees of stinkiness is more or less par for the course when the bunny gut starts up after a bout of gas or stasis. The fact that there is poop is what’s really important. Poop is 💃 (happy dance).

[DanaNM]

Glad he’s eaten a bit! I would prob tend to give pain meds over reglan, and if you give the reglan be sure to also give pain meds, and the cramping of the gut can be painful. Remind me, have you been to the vet yet over this?

You can ask the vet about his metacam dosage, he might need a stronger dose. Some buns also do better with their dose split every 12 hours rather than once every 24. It would be OK to split his current dose into two and give every 12, but I wouldn’t increase the total amount without checking with the vet.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[LBJ10]

For things to offer – What about willow? I’ve had a lot of luck with offering dried willow leaves.

[Author]

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