Next step for Henry and Poppy?

[luna]

Hi Everyone,

 

I have two bunnies ( Henry and Poppy Sue) Henry was neutered 3 months ago and Poppy was spayed almost a month ago. We have been bonding them for about ten days at this stage and things seem to be going well. We started in the bath and after two days moved them into the kitchen which is an area they both have floor time in. We set up a pet and put them in for an hour each day.

 

Firstly i will start by telling you how they get on and then i have a couple of questions about what i should do next so hopefully someone can help me.  When they go into the pen together Henry always does the approaching while Poppy stays quite still and puts her head down. He sprays her as soon as he goes in and starts circling her while softly honking. Then he usually puts his paws up around her shoulder and hops to and fro over her head and thats when the mounting usually begins. He was very bad at the beginning but it seems to have died down a lot in the last few days. He hops on her back which she allows but then she takes a few steps forward and turns around presenting her head for grooming. He grooms her alot …putting his paws up on her back and there is alot of licking of her back, sides and ears. This is pretty much constant through out their dates. ALOT of grooming. Most of the time Poppy stays still with her head to the floor but in the last couple of days she has been grooming him back and doing alot of her own grooming while he is beside her. Towards the end of the date they seem to potter around and do their own thing in different corners…and alot of grooming etc. Iv also noticed that when Henry stops grooming her and starts doing his own thing she usually follows him and looks for more grooming. these all seem like positive signs to me and im wondering what other people think?

 

My questions are…. Will Henry ever stop spraying her as it goes everywhere and we cant let them out anywhere near carpet while he is behaving this way. It really does stink!!!! Also what is the next step i should take? Maybe let them out in the kitchen? They may get territorial though if it is their play area when out alone! Any help would be much appreciated. Do ye think my bunnies are in love and does it seem like Henry is the dominant bun for now? Poppy seems very submissive with us and him…. she is also abit of a scaredy bunny!!!!! Thanks guys and sorry for the long post!x

 

 

[Beka27]

i would try to expand their area, maybe in the next few days, to include more of the kitchen. that sounds wonderful that there is no aggression from either. humping is normal at this stage. it’s important that he is not humping her head b/c if she got angry and bit his genitals, that would be very bad. putting her head down is her request for grooming. my Meadow does this all the time, even 6 months post-bonding.

i’m not sure what to tell you about the spraying. i never had to deal with that. i think you said that before he was neutered he was a big sprayer. i’m afraid this might be a behavior that you will have to deal with from time to time thru out his life. maybe keept ehm in the kitchen for the time being. i wodner if when they are no longer being separated and then reunited, when they are living together 24/7, if that might stop?

[luna]

Thanks Beka, yes Henry is such a head humper … i keep having to re-direct him.i have them out in the kitchen now and they are both running around investigating and following each other. There has been no spraying or humping yet. i think he got it out of his system in the pen before i opened it out. I am hoping like you said that the spraying will stop once they live together. He only does it at the beginning of their meetings and then thats it. He was a big time sprayer before he was neutered. Twice a day every single day for a month!!! And it was always on me!

 

When should i start introducing the litter boxes and should i put in both? i might start swaping them around into each others houses every day now! Hopefully they will be living together soon….fingers crossed! i am just a little unsure as to the steps i should be taking when things are going well.  Oh no, just looked at the ground and there are poops flying everywhere…. oh, the joys of keeping these wonderful animals

[RachelF]

its great that you are so patient– if i got sprayed twice a day I would be quite upset! even though you know they don’t mean it, behavior like that can be frustrating.

i was thinking like Beca, maybe because the are seperated and then put together every so often, he is overly excited when they do meet. once they are living together, maybe he will get over some of that built up excitement.

[luna]

Well i did lose my patience a few times. was sick of all the washing i had to do so had to limit Henrys floor time alot the week before he got neutered. He was destroying everything!!!

 

Poppy and Henry are still out in the kitchen and i have added their litter boxes. Can anyone tell me what it means when they nip each others bottoms. Henry does it a good bit with Poppy and she always flinches! It must be annoying for her, having a randy rabbit half her size tormenting her all the time. He is obsessed with her rear end… lol

[Beka27]

nipping is sometimes harsh grooming. is he lunging when he does it, or does he look like he’s starting to groom and then he nips?

it’s good to have the litterbox in with them (bunnies should always have access to a ltterbox), and try to put some hay in there too. what i did was some forced litterbox snuggling, i’d lift them both into the box side by side and stroke them each on the forehead at the same time. i would start switching them betw/ the cages, leave everything exactly where it is, only switch the bunny.

[luna]

No there is no lunging….he puts his head down like he is sniffing her bum …. tries to nudge under and then gives a nip. He usually comes out with a mouth of fur! I hope it doesnt affect their bonding. She does not like this and runs away when she see’s him coming!

[luna]

OMG…. I think they may be bonded. please tell me if im jumping the gun but iv had them out together for over 4hours now and they have been huddled up under the seat together for the last half hour. First they were sitting side by side and now they are sitting facing each other and Poppy is grooming Henry and he has his eyes closed and is grinding his teeth softly It totally melted my heart… they really are inlove!

[Beka27]

are they in the kitchen together still? i think it’s about 4.5 hours since you last posted…

[luna]

I separated them after 4hours…i thought that was a very positive note to end it on. I guess i will repeat this afew time while i am on my holidays and have the opportunity and if all is still going well i will take apart their c&c cages and make one cage measuring 4.5x2grids with 2 levels. My plan is to hopefully do this next week

[Beka27]

oh good! when you put them into their final location, i’d suggest you leave them confined for at least one week, maybe two. this will force them to be together and cement that bunny bond.

[luna]

Oh i hadnt heard that before … thanks for letting me know Beka. Today also went very well. Poppy groomed Henry for a full 5 minutes. He is still obsessed with her rear end but a few times i noticed them cuddled together in his litter box and right now they are cuddled together under the table and his head is resting on her neck/back area. Its so sweet. We have decided to swap our caviary with the bunnies cage and keep the bunnies in the kitchen. There is nothing they can damage in the kitchen so we are going to let them go free range there while we are at work and see how things go. That way if there are any accidents or Henry still sprays we can mop it up.

 

Because they are going into a new room and will have a new bigger cage should i still swap them into each others cages each night?

[MarkBun]

You might want to put them both into the same cage when you put them in a new room. It would hopefully be a neutral area so no one will get protective of the area. If you feel it is time, begin the confinement that Becka mentioned.

[luna]

Okay… so i have an update on how Henry and Poppy are getting on.  Everything was going so well yesterday that i didnt have the heart to separate them. They spent the whole day snuggling and grooming each other and when one went somewhere the other followed. It was so cute. We have a large kitchen which links with double doors into our living room so i closed one of the doors and made a kind of baby gate out of grids so i wouldnt have to be in with them all the time but could keep an eye on them while watching tv. The two of them kept coming up to the gate and looking at me as if to say ” let us in mommy”! Each time myself or my boyfriend went in to the kitchen the two bunnies would come running over getting under our feet while we were making dinner, cleaning etc.  They seemed like a real team and usually Poppy is quite timid around my boyfriend ( she hates him for some reason) but yesterday she seemed to have more courage with Henry there to protect her, aw bless!

 

So i took the plunge and moved my piggies into the living room, dismantled Henry and poppys cages and made up a 5grids long x 2 grids wide c&c cage for them in the kitchen. It was quite a big job and while we were doing this the two buns were in their pen cuddled together watching. We put them in at midnight and i stayed up for a few hours to make sure things were going okay. There was no humping or bum biting so i decided to go to bed. I checked on them twice during the night and each time they were snuggling. When i got up this morning they were still snuggling but then i noticed a bit of humping from Henry…and thought to myself ” Oh no, please dont let things go downhill from here”! But things seem to be fine, i have seen a lot of grooming since and they seem really happy. Henry even did a binky this morning

 

So needless to say i am delighted ( and also quite tired) with the outcome. It almost seems too good to be true. I started their bunny dates this day two weeks ago so was not expecting such a quick result.

 

Beka you were saying to keep them confined. So should i keep them in their cage for a week with no exercise time in the kitchen at all? I just want to be sure! Also i have noticed they seem to be peeing all over the place in the cage. Please tell me this is just a temporary thing until they have settled! My boyfriend is not too happy with the smell! I wouldnt mind but i do all of my pets care and cleaning. I have two bunnies, 4 piggies and hamsters so you can imagine what a heavy work load there can be!

 

Thanks everyone for the great advice and support over the last few months. id be lost without this forum! xx

[Beka27]

my thought on this is if they’re used to the kitchen (since it was their bonding space) you can let them play in the kitchen and pen them up at night or if you leave. my doubkle xpen is very large, so i didn’t feel bad about leaving them penned in there for two weeks, but i think in a smaller space, you might still want to give them some room to stretch their legs.

i’m so happy for you that this is progressing well! my experience was kind of similar (3 weeks instead of 2) but just when you think “oh my gosh, this is never gonna happen”, something clicks and they’re fine.

the peeing is peculiar. are they sharing one litterbox or are there two in there?

[luna]

There are two litter boxes in there… Poppy has never been great with her box. she has a covered one and she pee’s inside it, on top of it and outside it at the door. Its a major pain!!! Henry is very good with his litter tray but i spotted what the problem was about an hour ago. He is still spraying her so that is why there are pee spots in random places. He is also still humping her on occasion but for the most part they are happily sitting cuddled up together.

 

 

[Beka27]

how frustrating. again, i’m not familiar with the spraying at all. i do remember your potty problems with Poppy now that you mention it.

humping to some degree might be normal with him. 5 months post-bonding i walked into the bunny room and saw Max humping Meadow out of nowhere. no biting, no aggression from Meadow, she just laid there. Max is like, “yes, this here is my lady friend.”

i’m going to send this thread to the other forum leaders. i wonder if any of them who have bonded have experience with spraying among pairs.

[luna]

aw thats so cute. male bunnies do seem to get quite proud of their girlfriends. Henry was honking on and off all day then he would spray her and thats when the humping begins. my boyfriend is not very impressed as he is afraid henry will always be like that and doesnt want them free range if thats the case. i wouldnt blame him really! The smell is very unpleasant. Thanks for passing on this thread to other forum leaders. It would be so nice to know that i wasnt the only person experiencing this very annoying habit of his and to possibly get some advice or reassurance that it might stop!

[BinkyBunny]

Good job!! Sounds like things have progressed very well. The humping sounds like a mix of dominance, but because of the honking, he’s also “lovin” his new girlfriend. In this case, the spray behavior is way to claim his new gal. Even Jack who has been neutered for years will still do this sometimes to poor Rucy. He does it more if the cat comes nearby. (but really this happens maybe a few times a month)

So I think in time as your bunny becomes more secure in their bond and as both of their hormones die down, it will settle.

I have heard that bunnies who got into the habit of spraying before they were neutered, and they were not neutered for over a year, that the spray habit may stay – but the at least the need to spray won’t be as strong once neutered. (I think that’s what happened with Jack.)

I really doubt it will stay as often as what is happening now – this is sort of the honeymoon period. I would say you are probably looking at another couple of weeks of the territorial spray, and possibly another month of the amorous spray. But lets cross our fingers for a shorter time frame!

Keep us updated.

[luna]

Thanks Binkybunny,

Heres hoping that the spraying stops soon! I bought a few nice rugs for the inside of their cage and cant use them until it stops! For now i have to use newspaper which aint very pleasing on the eye! Im so relieved i got them bonded this week as i was on holidays from work and am back on Monday

 

I am going to take some pics of the happy couple and their new home and will post them tomorrow!!!

 

[luna]

So i took some photos this evening of the happy couple. Henry is the chinchilla netherland dwarf and Poppy is the dutch!Hope ye llike them 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BinkyBunny]

OH my they are so adorable! And what a great set-up you have! I’m keeping my fingers crossed that he settles down and stops spraying VERY soon!

[luna]

Thanks Binkybunny

[MarkBun]

I’m just going to chime in with a everything looks like it’s going well. The spraying/peeing thing might take a month to calm down but it usually does. You’ll get the occasional spray afterwards if they’re used to spraying but nothing too bad. The fact that Henry is grooming Poppi is a good sign.

Lately I’ve been catching Maryann humping Dono alot. Not ALOT alot but I had not seen her do it in 6 months and now I’ve seen it 3 times in 3 weeks. It is possible that there is just something in the air.

Whatever you do with them, for the next couple of weeks make sure they can’t get more than 3-4 meters from one another and that they’re always in sight of one another.  You can have a box house for them but don’t let one hop around a corner or behind the sofa or such thing.  You want them to know 24/7 that the other is there.

[Beka27]

where did you get your litterbox? can you take closer pics of it please?

[luna]

Thanks Marcusdark, I will take your advice. They are free range in our kitchen most of the time and its so cute …. they are always together and today i havent seen Henry spray or hump so i took out the newspaper and rearranged some things

 

Beka which litter box are you talking about…the covered one or blue one?

I will take some more pics later on of the setup without the newspaper….. and the litter boxes for you

[luna]

I got the pink litter box in a place called Petstop and I got the blue one from Zooplus in Germany. I only use the bottom half!

 

Here is the link: http://www.zooplus.ie/shop/cats/cat_litter_litter_boxes/hooded_litter_box/91557

[BinkyBunny]

Markus – I think something is in the air – are yours molting? I am not sure why that seems to set off dominance and territorial stuff. But it seems to regardless. Could be that they feel they need to be groomed more and so they request it and when the passive one refuses so many times, then the dominant one decides to reiterate their role. (totally and fully guessing!) Or it could be just a hormone thing that is part of the triggering of the molt.

[MarkBun]

Actually, I JUST found three ‘patches’ on Maryann’s body. I thought that Dono got mean at her and pulled them but if he did, they would have come out and not stayed there. So yeah, I think it’s shedding time again.

[BinkyBunny]

Well, sometimes if there was some chasing, hair could have been pulled, but not pulled out all the way. Usually you can tell if it’s a molt if there is at least some hair underneath the loose hair. Usually it won’t be fully bare – usually there will be at least some short short hair. (however, I have heard of bald spots happening too)….so…yeah…this post was helpful.

[Author]

Messages