new bunny sick and just lost old bunny

[whispercalm]

It’s been years since written in this forum, but I have looked at posts. Right now I am quite upset and this may be a bit long. We lost our 6 1/2 year old bunny Buddy on Labor Day weekend. Buddy had been prone to GI Stasis and we nursed him through multiple bouts. We thought he was starting another bought of stasis and called vet. She prescribed his usual med and we went to pick it up. That night he was fabulous and we were encouraged he was on the mend. Playing like he hadnt played in years. I know now it was a last goodbye. The next day (saturday) things turned for the worse and I saw very unusual behavior. He was afraid of his litter box. .Strange jerky head movements, rapid breathing and nystagmus of the eyes. Off to emergency clinic as our vet was closed. Emergency clinic had no exotic vet on weekends. Vet Buddy saw said he couldnt find anything wrong and he seemed fine other than some stasis. They fed critical care and gave sub fluids and a pain shot. We had a horrible night. I think Buddy was hallucinating. He clung to me. I stayed up all night with him. I moved a blanket I was using and scared him and he flew off the couch and ran into a step. I felt awful I scared him. Just to note…all signs happened before he ran into step, not caused by running into step. Anyway, around 5 am I could tell the shot must be wearing off and he was getting panicky and breathing hard again. I was sure he was dying and we went back to emergency vet.  Different shift so different vet. From the moment we got there they were rude. Of course we couldnt go in because of covid. But tech that came out was snotty and rude and accused me of not following instructions. Said she would know if I was lying because she was going to look up the records. I couldn’t believe it. We have to wait in parking lot. Vet calls and says I’m not a rabbit vet and I am comfortable with stasis but there is more going on and the nystagmus worries me. SHe was very curt and cold. Said they were trying to contact an exotic vet but being holiday weekend no one is answering. I asked if she had check his ears for signs of infections. She said, well I guess I could try to look down there. She also asked if I was sure Buddy was a boy as she saw “two holes.” I said yes, he is. He had testicles and I had him neutered. Basically she was unhappy all around she had to deal with him. Said it would be $800 a day to just give supportive care and once they located an exotic vet we would have to drive him there. Closest would be  1 1/2 hours away. Their exotic vet not back until Tuesday because of Labor Day weekend. It was horrible. A living nightmare. Our precious baby. Housebunny full range of house. We adored our baby. We had to make choice to put him to sleep. Couldn’t let him suffer or be afraid. He was terrified of car rides too and along ride when so sick wouldnt have been good and he,d never been away from us either. It was like losing a child. We are an older couple. My husband is retired and I work just 2 days. He was our world. We do have a little parrotlet bird too which we love, but Buddy was our first baby.

I guess I’m rambling…I haven’t written what happened before. We talked about adopting another bunny or maybe a dog as we were afraid of it happening again. Our bunny getting sick on weekend and no vet around who knew about rabbits to help us. We looked at some puppies and rescues but our hearts were bunny. Then one day 3 weeks ago we went into a pet store. (Yes, I know pet stores aren’t the best places to get a bunny) We went in just to play with puppies for awhile. Then wandered around store and saw this beautiful little young bunny. Now we had seen others at various places throughout the weeks, but this one spoke to us. We knew this one needed to come home. Scared we were of what happened to Buddy happening again, but decided we can’t live in fear. So Charlie Brown came home and has been a joy. SO full of love and playful. A blessing.

But today Charlie is sneezing and there is thick white mucous that bubbles some. I know this could be pasturella. I am afraid of him dying. Charlie is playing like normal, but I am so upset. Tomorrow I will call vet. Other than the sneezing and mucous ( mucous I could see with flashlight when he sneezed and it bubbled out). He seems perfectly fine and normal otherwise. I was going to call tomorrow anyway to set up his wellness check and get him established. Plus I noticed yesterday he may have some ear mites. Not a bad mite infection, but he was scratching his right ear and I noticed some dirt and a little flakiness.

I can’t believe he is sick. He has been home not quite 3 weeks. Charlie is about 3 1/2 months old. I am scared. I’m also concerned our little bird may pick this up. He rides around on our shoulders all day. I should have took Charlie to vet right away when he came home, but I wanted him to settle a week or so first. Maybe I could have prevented this respiratory issue. He had no signs before today though. We love him so much already. He is already free roaming.

Forgive me for all the rambling. I just know the people here would understand. I’m not asking for diagnosis on my bunny who passed away. It could have been a number of underlying issues, but with no one around who could diagnose or treat, we had no choice. He was just that sick. I just needed to express our nightmare with the vet and our grief and my concerns over our new bunny Charlie being sick now.

 

[Bam]

I am so sorry you lost Buddy. It does sound like an absolute nightmare. When a bun develops nystagmus and other neurological signs, the first things a vet should suspect are a  middle ear infection or e cuniculi. I’m so sorry the ER clinic treated you the way they did.

I’m very sorry your new bun isnt well. He will need antibiotics for this, since bunny colds are bacterial rather than caused by viruses. I hope you have a better vet to go to than that ER clinic?

Bunny colds can be caused by several bacteria, among them pasteurella. It is believed that most buns have the pasteurella bacterium in low numbers in their nasal cavity, but only some buns get sick from it. Reasons why a bun gets sick can be things like young age (immature immune system) or stress, not necessarily “bad” stress. Getting a new home can count as a stressor, even if the new home is very much better than the old home.

Pasteurella and several other bunny cold bacteria are sensitive to enrofloxacine (Baytril). Some buns require a longer course than just the regular 1 week -10 days. The sooner you start treatment, the better. We have had many buns here that have recovered from bunny colds. It is highly understandable that you are afraid that he will die, given the recent tragic demise of Buddy. This is how the human brain works.

I can’t say if your bird is at risk of catching a bunny cold, but we do have other members who have bird experience.

[DanaNM]

I don’t have much to add on to what Bam said, I just wanted to say I’m very sorry for the loss of your sweet Buddy. <3 It does sound like something quite serious was going on, it is so unfortunate you had to deal with such poor treatment on top of having a very sick bunny.

There are a lot of cases of upper respiratory infections that come on this forum, which are very treatable with correct antibiotics. Mites are also very common and easy to treat. Hoping your next vet experience is much more positive!

 

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[whispercalm]

Thank you for your kind reply.  I’ll either take Charlie to our regular vet who normally saw Buddy or possibly a new vet who I’ve heard is very good with exotics and rabbits. Only problem there is I’ve heard she works two different clinics so not at same one all week. The other clinic is out of town. But I may call and check. I’d like to have the assurance that Charlie’s vet is accessible throughout the week and Saturday mornings. It’s the weekends thats the problem in my area. Our old vet was always good with Buddy.  But they did refer Buddy to the emergency vet a few years ago for a stubborn bout of stasis that they couldn’t get under control. They have a good exotic animal vet at the emergency clinic, but she is only there 3 days a week and never weekends or holidays. Only dealt with her once for the stasis referral. After our recent experience with the emergency clinic, I have no desire to deal with them. Rabbit, guinea pig, bird and other exotic pet parents are just out of luck on weekends if their babies need help.

I just don’t understand why they don’t have an exotic vet on weekends at that clinic for emergencies too.  They get sick too. IF she  or another exotic vet was available on the weekends Buddy may still be alive. The vets at that emergency clinic on weekends should at least be educated to look in a rabbits ears and know what sex they are. I couldn’t believe when the vet ask me if I was sure Buddy was a boy because she saw two holes.

 

[HipHopBunny]

Oh, wow, you sure have had quite the time! 😥

I’m so so so so so sorry that you lost Buddy! 😥  What has helped me in the past sometimes, is to look through old photos of them, to smile at the memories, and to laugh at their antics! 😀 They sure do have a memorable character don’t they? 😉 There were those days though when I just needed to get some good emotions out. It is okay to cry, to scream it to the stars, I even found after a good cry, I would sometimes feel better. 🙂 We all handle grief differently, but there are still little things that even in the darkest times can put a smile on our faces’. 😀 Capture those moments so that when you are feeling down, you can look back at them, and laugh. 🙂 Find little hobbies, or activities that you enjoy, surround yourself with positivity. 🙂

I’m glad though, that you have Charlie Brown now. 🙂 I did get new buns after my beloved bridge bunny crossed over, and they make me smile every day! 😀 Give Charlie lots of pets and snuggles for me! 😉 I bet he counts his blessings every day to have a wonderful owner like you in his life!! 😀

Wishing happiness your way!

Smile 🙂 Laugh 🙂 Be happy 🙂

[LBJ10]

I’m so sorry to hear about Buddy. These things happen, unfortunately, especially in areas where there are not a lot of exotic vets. From his symptoms though, I do wonder if much could have been done even if an exotic vet was on-hand. They may have been able to provide better supportive care, but the outcome may have been the same.

For Charlie Brown – URIs are not uncommon in young bunnies and, as others have mentioned, it can be triggered by stress (e.g. moving to a new home). The good news is that most URIs are very treatable.

I was asked to comment regarding pasteurella and your little birdie. Most bunnies have pasteurella living in their sinuses, it’s just part of the microbiome. A URI can be caused by many different types of bacteria, it’s not always pasteurella. Regardless, it’s highly unlikely that Charlie Brown would infect your parrotlet with pasteurella. The bird would have to have prolonged close contact with him (like sharing the same enclosure). The typical mode of transmission of pasteurella between “other pets” and birds is actually bites and scratches. So if a cat attacks a pet bird, the bird could potentially become infected with pasteurella if they survive the attack.

[whispercalm]

Thank you all for the encouraging words, sympathy and understanding. It really does help. We do have lots of photos of Buddy and wonderful memories.

LBJ10 thank you for commenting about our parrotlet. That helps put my mind at ease.

Charlie is sneezing more often and having some sneezing fits as the day goes on but is eating and pottying well. I’ll be glad when tomorrow comes so I can get him seen and I’m thankful this is not an emergency situation that can’t wait until tomorrow.

[LBJ10]

Hopefully you were able to make an appointment with your regular vet. 🙂

I suppose if you want to be super cautious, you can make sure your bird doesn’t come in contact with any of Charlie Brown’s nasal secretions. Like if you’re holding him, maybe change your shirt before letting your bird sit on your shoulder. Washing your hands between animals might not be a bad idea either. Again, it’s unlikely… but if you’re looking to be super cautious, that is what I would suggest.

 

[whispercalm]

Sorry, everyone…I meant to post an update yesterday on Charlie. I tried to make appt with the vet Buddy saw. I was told they are no longer seeing rabbits, but since they had seen Buddy, receptionist would ask vet and call me back. Also said they were booked yesterday, but she thought Charlie could come around 10:30 once she asked vet.  She called back and said we could do a drop off visit and they would work Charlie in sometime then call us to pick up. Otherwise we could get an appt next day. They didn’t seem too thrilled about taking a new bunny patient and I did not want to just leave Charlie and then pick up or wait a day. I wanted to actually see the vet. I tried the vet mentioned to me by a friend, but they were booked until Wed.

I found an exotic vet the next town 30 minutes away who could see Charlie that afternoon. I liked the clinic and the vet. Tampa Bay Rabbit Rescue uses them when they need somebody in our area. I live in Sarasota and am south of Tampa depending on traffic an hour t0 90 minutes.

Charlie has ear mites in right ear and ear infection from the infestation. Most of the nasal mucous seems to be from right side also, although I have seen a bit from left. Vet thought the URI might be related to ear. He doesn’t feel there is an inner ear infection.

Revolution was given for the ear mites. Antibiotic is Sulfamethoxazole/Trimeth twice a day. I had some Bene-bac so I’m going to give some while on antibiotics to help gut flora.

We go back next Tuesday for a recheck  and to evaluate if the antibiotic is working. Charlie is a girl, which I had thought and we talked about spaying, but he wants to wait until after Christmas as she’s still small.

We are having another problem with Charlie with litterbox.  She pottied all over the place in her room last night and even peed outside the litterbox. We’ve had some problems with poopies outside and around at night, but not like this.  I’ll start a new thread for that and keep this one for updates on health.

 

 

[whispercalm]

We did ask about the risk to Pip our parrotlet and he advised we keep hands washed and not let them have direct physical such as Pip having contact with Charlies ears, etc. Pretty much same as what LBJ10 had said and advised.

[Bam]

Thank you for the update! It sounds like a good vet clinic! Revolution is the best antiparasitic for rabbits. I have used sulfamethoxasile/trimetoprim with two of my own buns, for respiratory infections, with excellent results.

I’d recommend giving the benebac a few hours after or before the antibiotics, to give it the best chance possible to do its good work in the gut. Also to keep up the benebac for a while after the course of abx is finished, to replenish the gut with beneficial microorganisms.

Its great if you start a new thread about the potty issues!

[DanaNM]

Sounds like you found a good vet! Always nice to feel welcomed and not like a burden to the vet.

 

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[LBJ10]

That’s great! Glad to hear you were able to get Charlie seen.

[whispercalm]

Can anyone advise me about how long it takes to tell if antibiotic is working? She started first dose Monday afternoon and has had 4 doses so far. I know this is really  only day 2 from when she saw vet on Monday. It probably hasn’t had enough time to do much yet.

Charlie was sneezing less yesterday but is sneezing more today and still has some nasal discharge. She seems to feel pretty good though and is eating and playing well.

 

 

[Bam]

For oral antibiotics, the general “rule” is you see improvement in 48-72 hours. URIs can be stubborn though. If you don’t see any improvement in a week, it may be that the antibiotic isn’t right for the type of bacteria that are causing the symptoms. You should then contact your vet again. They may tell you to keep up the same antibiotic for another week, or suggest other rabbit safe antibiotics that can be tried, f ex enrofloxacine, which is a broad spectrum antibiotic. Sometimes you need to combine 2 antibiotics.

Its great that she seems to be in good spirits. Sneezing and other signs of irritated nasal mucosa can persist for a bit even if the bad bacteria are dying off, because the mucous membranes are irritated – much like we can keep coughing for quite a while after we’ve had a chest cold, even though the cold is gone.

 

[whispercalm]

Thank you. She does have a scheduled recheck appt for next Tuesday with her vet. He said he wanted to see her again to make sure we are using the right antibiotic.

[whispercalm]

Thought I’d give an update on Charlie. We went back to vet today for a recheck per vets request after 7 days on sulfamethoxasile/trimetoprim. Charlie has been sneezing much less last couple days and nasal discharge seems to be thinner and not thick white. She’s in good spirits and has gained a little weight.  Vet is keeping her on sulfamethoxasile/trimetoprim for another 14 days then back for recheck.

So tonight she has a sneezing fit. Stronger sneezes and more at the same time then I’ve heard for days. I had been hearing only little individual sneezes the last couple days if I heard any at all. My husband says it just means she needs the antibiotic another 14 days as vet prescribed today. The vet did consider changing it,  up decided to stay with the same one as she has shown improvement.

 

[Bam]

If she keeps having violent sneezing fits today  I’d call the vet again. It does however seem like the current antibiotics have done some good, and its not uncommon for a URI to require at least 2 weeks of antibiotics. It sounds great that she’s gained some weight!

[whispercalm]

Well, here we go again with Charlie. She had a checkup last Tuesday with vet and got the all clear. No discharge, breathing sounded clear, gained weight. She had been on sulfamethoxasile/trimetoprim for 21 days.

She still ha an occasional sneeze, but very light and not forceful. Vet believed she has allergies to something in house and that is the cause for the occasional sneeze. Some days we didn’t hear any at all, then others a few throughout day. He said he wasn’t worried about an occasional sneeze,  it if it worsens contact him and he will give her a new antibiotic.

So here we are five days later. Still only a rare occasional sneeze and she’s feeling fabulous. Today I thought I heard a sneeze that was more congested. Tonight as I was cleaning out her litter box I found a glob of yellow mucous in the hay. Reminds of of when I have a sinus infection. There’s no snot on her face anywhere or her paws. But I know this had to come from her nose. Her discharge before had been white. This yellow is new. I will call vet tomorrow

I’m afraid she will never get over this. She’s so young and we’ve only had her a couple months. We just lost our other bunny 3 months ago so I think that makes me more fearful plus when I google this some of what I read is downright scary.

 

 

 

[LBJ10]

Hmm… yellow mucus suggests a current or recent infection. Believe me, I’ve had sinus infections before and what comes out is not pretty! LOL  The yellow stuff could be “dead” though. She was on antibiotics for 21 days. Perhaps she had some gunk trapped up in there and she was finally able to expel it? How is her breathing now? Does she sound congested or is she a lot clearer? If she’s still congested and this continues, then another antibiotic may be in order.

There is another possible explanation, but Charlie seems a bit young for that.

[whispercalm]

Her breathing is fine and there’s no sign of congestion or discharge. I fact she hasn’t sounded congested at all for about a week. Just some sneezes.  I hate to see her go back on antibiotics if she doesn’t need them. She had a tiny whistle from her nose yesterday but that didn’t last very long. I thought I saw a very small amount of dried mucous on the side of her food dish two days ago, but it was very small. I thought it might have been from a sneeze. It seemed to be clear.

I did take a picture of what I found for the vet. I thought when I call tomorrow I would ask for their email so he can see it. He did say he would just prescribe a different antibiotic if needed if we called. I hate to see her back on antibiotics if she doesn’t really need it. I don’t feel really good about that.

[whispercalm]

I emailed the picture of the discharge I found to the vet this morning. He has prescribed another  antibiotic. I think it’s a blend of more than one. The receptionist called me and when I asked her she said zythromyacin? blend. I ask her what that meant and she said probably a blend of more than one. I’ll know more when I pick it up after work today.

Charlie seems to feel quite good otherwise. I am thankful I saw the discharge from her nose on the hay in her litter box last night because otherwise it could have been awhile since there’s been nothing I’ve seen from her nose or on her face.

it amazes me really that she seems to feel so well and be racing around and still have this infection in her head. I know rabbits hide illness,  But she just seems to feel so good. I will post what the new antibiotic is when I pick it up.

 

 

 

[whispercalm]

Her medicine is Azithromycin for 14 days.

[prince dorian the bun]

been reading and wishing a happy outcome for Charlie, sounds like you have a good vet who is willing to work with you. Wishing her much good health soon!! (I know how scary having a sick pet is after having recently lost one, sorry about Buddy <3 )

 

[LBJ10]

I always had a lot of luck with Azithromycin. It’s used to treat tougher URIs.

[whispercalm]

Vet decided yesterday to switch Charlie’s antibiotic to Doxycycline for 7 days. She had no problem with it last night or this morning. I was willing to give the other another chance if he wanted but he thought best to switch for now. She’s sneezing a bit more today and had a small amount of thick discharge on her whiskers. We moved some thing around today as we were going to get our air ducts in house cleaned thinking that may help her and also some sinus issues we are having. Maybe that stirred up things today for her.

Im starting a new thread about the vents. Tech was here and we learned something’s. Wondering it could be part of the problem

I hope new med works

[Bam]

Fingers crossed the new meds will work. As Im sure you know, Doxycyklin is on Medirabbit’s list of rabbit-safe antibiotics. You seem to have a good vet who listens ro you, which is so very important!

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