New bunny owner questions

[dlattin]

Hello all,

New to the forum and first time poster. I’ve learned a ton already reading other posts, but thought I’d seek out some opinions to see if I was given bad advice by our breeder. Sorry if it’s a bit of a long post, but I’ll give the whole back story. We brought home a blue eyed white Holland lop male, Coconut, when he was 8 weeks old at the beginning of December. We initially purchased a ~3×2 ft cage for him. We are reluctant to let him free roam in our home because it is not very bunny proof and we have twin 3 year old daughters that would likely “love” him to death. After allowing him to get settled in the cage for a couple of days, we started trying to pick him up and hold him in our laps a couple of times per day for a few minutes at a time, but after about 3-4 days Coconut made it very clear that he did not like being held (kicking, struggling, etc, every time we picked him up). After reading online that it is normal for rabbits to not like being picked up or handled, we decided to take a slow and steady approach to handling him (he was kicking so much, we were also worried he might hurt himself). Also after reading online that a cage wasn’t enough space for him, we attached a 4×4 ft ex-pen to the cage. After owning him for about 2 weeks, we took him to the vet for the first time. The vet was a little concerned that he was so timid about being handled and encouraged us to continue our slow approach, but told us we really needed to get him used to being handled by the time he was ready to be neutered (she told us at 6 months) so the process wouldn’t be so stressful for him. So we started encouraging him with lettuce and baby carrots to hop into our laps while sitting in his ex-pen and slowly getting him used to the sensation of putting our hands under his belly and on his backside, slowly building towards being able to pick him. We also moved him into our screened in porch, ditched the cage since he had pretty much litter box trained, expanded his primary ex-pen to 6×4, and attached a second 6×4 ex-pen to it to give him more space to run. Occasionally he would escape from the ex-pens when my twins would leave the door open, and he would still really freak out if we picked him up to put him back in his space, so we generally tried not to hold him at all. He would let us pet him and would hop into our laps for treats, and generally seemed a pretty happy bunny (lots of binkies, zoomies, etc.)

Despite the fact that he still wouldn’t let us pick him up, things seemed to be going well until my older daughters’ friends got new baby bunnies a few weeks ago. Their bunnies were MUCH more tolerant of being held, handled, etc., and suddenly my wife and daughters felt like something must be wrong with Coconut because he still wouldn’t let us hold him. I told them that his behavior was “normal” bunny behavior, but I think we started forcing the issue too much in an attempt to “make” him more cuddly (and due to our slight jealousy at the cuddliness of our friends’ bunnies). Then our friends’ kids visited our house about a week ago and picked up Coconut a couple of times while we weren’t supervising them. After that he seemed somewhat traumatized, as he withdrew from us and I feel like now we are starting the whole process all over again.

Coconut is now ~4 months old. Since his time to get neutered is approaching, I checked in with the breeder and mentioned how little he liked being handled and asked for any advice. She told us we made a mistake in giving him too much space right off the bat when he was so young and that we should have kept him in the cage for the first few months. She said he probably never bonded with us and has learned its OK to just run away. She recommended putting him back in the cage and only taking him out to be held in our laps while feeding him treats until he was tolerant of being held and handled. Only then we could start expanding his living area again. In response to her advice, we removed his second ex-pen so that he didn’t have “too much space” to run away from us, but I just haven’t felt right putting him back in the original cage as it just seems cruel to restrict him to a such a small space.

Soooo… does anyone think the breeder’s advice about putting him back in a cage is sound? Or should we just stick with our slow and steady approach to regain Coconut’s trust and stop worrying about whether he likes to be held? Do you think it is OK to add back the 2nd ex-pen to restore some of his running space, or is it better for a rabbit at this age to be a little more restricted? I’m a little nervous that if we don’t have him more acclimated to being held, neutering may be too stressful for him, we may not be able to trim his nails ourselves, etc., and all of this is starting stress me out 🙂 Any other tips for us at this point? I’ve encouraged my older daughters (8 and 6) to just sit in the ex-pen with him and not try to force the issue too much, but let him come to us. We are starting to see him hop back into our laps for treats, but it is slow going, and he generally seems much more fearful than he was before. We are very much novices at owning a bunny and appreciate any advice.

Thanks in advance!

[DanaNM]

I have to STRONGLY disagree with the breeder.

Most rabbits are ok with being held as young babies, but not all, and usually when they get a bit older they start to dislike it. So it is likely that the baby rabbits your friend has are just OK with it since they are babies still. Even the ones that don’t struggle don’t like it (you can tell by their eyes, breathing, and behavior after the fact). Always keep in mind that rabbits are prey animals, so being grabbed and handled often is very stressful for most bunnies. There is the odd one that doesn’t seem to mind it, but it’s rare!

Giving more space definitely does not make a bun dislike you.

I do think it’s important to be able to handle your bun safely, but this is more about you learning how to pick up a rabbit safely and carefully, vs training the rabbit to accept it.

In my experience volunteering with a rescue, the more buns are handled the more they hate it and the more they learn to fear you. When a bun is kept in it’s cage and is only let out when you pick it up, they often become cage aggressive and learn to fear hands and humans. So you 100% did the right thing by giving him more space.

It’s very important that you do not let your youngest daughters interact with bun unsupervised. They could very easily injure him and make him very scared. The tactic you mentioned at the end is very good, just sitting with him and letting him approach you.

Here’s what I would do: Go back to your set up where he has more space. Focus on hand feeding him (veggies, treats, pellets), and spending lots of time near him but ignoring him. Sit on the floor with him and read a book. Ideally near his open pen but not in the pen, so he doesn’t feel threatened. When he approaches, just ignore him and let him check you out. When he starts to trust you, he will probably relax on the ground near you. Then you might be able to give a few nose rubs. It may take some time for him to start to trust you again, but he will get there. Just make sure the whole family is on the same page. At the rescue we also tell kids that a bun’s back and bum area is the “go button”, in that if you touch that area the bunny will go away. Kids often instinctively pet a bun’s back, but this actually makes them scared and they will often run away.

I’ve found when my bunnies will accept nose rubs and pets, I can pick them up no problem when I need to, because they aren’t afraid of my hands. Some people also train their buns to hop into a carrier using treats. This is pretty easy to do if you always feed pellets in the carrier. 🙂

I think this would also be a good opportunity for your family to learn to love and accept Coconut as he is. Rabbits all have different personalities, and honestly his behavior sounds very normal to me. With gentle patience I’m sure he will bond with you and his personality will show more. <3

For reference (and possibly useful for emergencies), I’ve linked a video of me picking up a difficult to handle rabbit at the rescue. This hold is called the “football” hold, and it’s very secure for squirmy buns. (I also prefer to sit down and let the rabbit “settle” before picking up, but in this case I was in a bit of a hurry.) Notice how once I have my hand on her head I can pin her down and scoop her up easily:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/12iIW-I7CAJIK7Zah6jN0470eQkOlaqr3/view?usp=sharing

It’s important that rabbits weight is well supported, that they can’t kick off of you, and that they can’t kick into the air, as they can break their spine or get hurt in other ways. Buns will struggle when they feel like they are going to be dropped. At this point, I recommend that 1 person in the family be the designated handler, with no one else picking up Coconut, and the handler only doing it when necessary (like for a vet visit or nail trim).

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Wick & Fable]

First, I think he is a bit young to be getting baby carrots. Romaine lettuce is the “safest” fresh veggie, so that’s fine on occasion, but typically you don’t want to be incorporating a lot of treats (ex. baby carrots) or any fresh veggies into a rabbit’s diet until they are about 6mo, because that ensures their stomach is ready to take it. If there hasn’t been any problems so far, that’s fine, and likely since romaine is pretty easy for most rabbits to handle. Treats should be sparing, and if daily, probably just a single, small piece of a baby carrot, for example.

There are many variables that will continuously contribute to a rabbit feeling safe in its environment, with you, and with being handled — all these interact with each other (i.e. a rabbit who feels more comfortable in the environment can be linked to it feeling more comfortable with you which can contribute to being more comfortable being handled), while also having their own independent factors (ex. Something might make the rabbit nervous about the environment, but it does not hurt your relationship with the rabbit). Factors can be how loud your home is, how often the rabbit sees you, what it perceives every interaction is like, what your body looks like when you’re approaching…. with so many variables in play, I suggest sticking to the basic principle of behavioral learning, which is increasing the amount of positive associations and decreasing the experience of negative associations. Also, my target wouldn’t be “put on lap”. Your lap is really close to the ground (will talk about later), so it is pretty weird for a rabbit to be forced to go on a lap, when the ground is so close. The temptation to escape is very high. Rabbits are rarely “lap animals”, in my experience.

Speaking from a behavioral learning standpoint, it sounds like essentially every time you have handled the rabbit, it ended in a negative association (i.e. he kicked/struggled to leave) and/or lacked a positive-ending (ex a treat, a cuddle/pet, being returned safely and calmly to its original spot). At the same time, these incidences occurred at variable, random times, which can put any learning animal on alert that “it could happen whenever”.  So we have a recipe of 1) negative association with being picked up and 2) happens randomly. This is a nasty combination…. which is why I believe you’re seeing progress in the sitting in the pen and getting treats for approach technique. You’re instilling that a human presence in proximity won’t always be a handling scenario, and there’s positive association after touching a human body. As to not overdo it with treats, you can instead use single pellets as a reinforcer, and even incorporate small pets as well. I think this approach is fine.

When you do feel OK to try picking him up again, a couple suggestions, based on my experience:

1. Understand that every rabbit has their own tolerance level — regardless of pace, technique, etc.. some rabbits will be naturally less or more tolerant than others.
2. Be adamant in ending handling with a positive association — this means a treat/pellet. I literally would literally have a treat/pellet in my teeth so I could get it to my rabbit once she touched back to the ground!
3. Be adamant in never letting flailing be how the handling ends (to what is safe; don’t start randomly gripping tightly if there is a struggle!) — rabbits typically flail when they don’t feel secure, so flailing can be a sign on your end not only that your rabbit feels unsafe, but a sign that your hold might not be secure either. It seems silly, but if you have a plushy or can crumple up a blanket to the approximate size of your rabbit, do that and figure out what hold feels best for you, and rehearse with that stand-in how your arms and hands need to maneuver to get a rabbit there. There are many images/videos online of appropriate, secure rabbit holds.
4. Signals can be useful — sometimes, it can be helpful to have a “routine” or some sort of visual/audio signal associated with these inherently unpleasant experiences (ex. medication, picked up, grooming by owner…). This helps offset the variability/randomness I talked about early, so the rabbit learns that “ah, only when I see the signal do I know it’s time”. For picking up, maybe there’s a certain towel/fabric you have draped on your shoulder/arm that can be a signal, for example. I don’t use a signal for my rabbits for pick-up, but I do use a mat for grooming and medication, so when I lay the mat on the floor, one of my rabbit immediately starts running from me because he knows what’s coming (i.e. getting picked up and put on the mat for grooms/meds). While that may seem bad and not preferable to some, I find it works for me and him because in the past he couldn’t differentiate when I was approaching him normally vs. for medication/grooming.
5. Height can make a difference. If the ground is there (ex. you are sitting on your knees-level height), a rabbit is more likely to flail because it’s super close to the ground already so just… alittle… more! Now there’s always the risk that when you stand up and the rabbit escapes, a 5-6ft drop is worse than a 1ft drop, so combine this point with #3. You can find an easy medium, like standing on your knees perhaps.
6. Don’t let it end on your rabbit’s term – this is similar to #3 as well, but adding onto it is you should not wait until your rabbit can’t take it anymore to decide to stop. It’s my same philosophy with petting too. I boil it down to you don’t want your rabbit thinking it’s going to go on until it is unpleasant, so even if your rabbit is really calm during a hold, a reward can actually be ending the hold.

I would just keep with the x-pen set-up. Continuously changing his environment is another stressor. I would make sure that in that area though is a “homebase” for him. It could be a cage, but the door is always open. Rabbits do well and typically really like having a place they feel secure within their roam space.

 

 

The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.

[LBJ10]

I agree with Dana and Wick. And I disagree with the breeder. He needs an appropriate-sized enclosure and he should be allowed to exit his enclosure on in own accord (not by being carried somewhere).

Some may disagree with me, but I’m a believer in getting a bunny accustomed to being handled. Do they like it? No. They simply tolerate it. And, as Dana said, some bunnies will tolerate it better than others. The benefits of getting them accustomed to being handled means it will be easier to do things like trim nails, give meds, etc. Or if there is an emergency, you will be able to grab them without them flailing about. However, it doesn’t mean you can cuddle your bunny whenever you want. Handling should be infrequent, so they aren’t stressed too much… but also often enough that they learn to tolerate it without putting up too much of a fight.

Wick gave some very good pointers. What I have done in the past is very similar to the things she is suggesting. Positive reinforcement. Signaling and creating a routine. Not doing it every time you interact with them. Start slow and work your way up. Finding a comfortable hold. These are all good things. Just keep in mind that every bunny is different and the ultimate level of tolerance will vary between individuals. There is definitely a learning curve, but you soon figure out what works best for your bunny.

[Hazel]

Agree with the others. In my opinion, what Dana said is one of the most crucial things to keep in mind:

I do think it’s important to be able to handle your bun safely, but this is more about you learning how to pick up a rabbit safely and carefully, vs training the rabbit to accept it.

Rabbits are prey animals, the only time they would be picked up in the wild is if they’re about to become someone’s dinner. I’m not saying Coconut literally thinks you’re going to eat him, but that’s the level of stress they instinctively put themselves through in that situation. It is literally the one thing they’re most afraid of. Forcing them to get used to being handled is kind of like throwing a person who’s afraid of parachuting out of an airplane over and over until they learn to “like” it. They won’t. All it does is destroy their trust in you, as you have seen with Coconut.

Take it slow, stop trying to pick him up completely for the time being, and work on building up his trust again. This can take a long time. Don’t worry about having to get him neutered soon, any rabbit savvy vet can handle them, whether they are easy to pick up or not. On that note, you might want to consider finding a new vet, yours seems to have no knowledge of rabbit behavior and more importantly, doesn’t seem confident in his ability to handle a rabbit. And by the way, even if you managed to get him used to being handled before the neuter, it wouldn’t translate to a vet visit. He will still be terrified and trying to get away from the situation, no matter how well he might be doing at home. I’ve seen people say, “The rabbit has to be trained to accept being picked up, what if there’s an emergency like a fire?” Well, guess what, if there’s a stressful situation like a fire (or a vet visit) your rabbit will be panicked and any training will go out the window anyway.

One more thing I wanted to touch on is the children. I know people hate taking advice about their kids, especially from strangers, and I hope you don’t take this the wrong way. But please don’t ever leave the kids unsupervised with the rabbit. Even the older ones. Even if that means you have to put a lock on his enclosure. As you’ve said yourself, he seemed traumatized after he was left alone with them so you know they likely mishandled or even hurt him. If this keeps happening that fear will eventually turn into aggression. This is how tons of rabbits end up being dumped in shelters. The kids are allowed to manhandle the rabbit, it eventually lashes out and bites. Then he’s deemed aggressive and gotten rid of. I remember someone on here asking for advice about her rabbit that suddenly was afraid and aggressive, especially towards her daughter. She swore up and down that her daughter was a sweet angel that could do no wrong. Well, turns out she was swinging the rabbit around and making him “dance”, which the mother only found out because the girl had recorded it on her tablet. The point is, don’t leave them alone together, ever. They shouldn’t pick him up either. It’s difficult enough for an adult to safely handle a rabbit if it starts to struggle and kick, if things go sideways a child would likely either drop him or hurt him trying to hold on. A good rule for kids around bunnies is “Only one hand touches the bun at any time”. I know this is difficult for kids to do, naturally they want  to snuggle and play with their pet. Kids seem to like all the things rabbits don’t, being loud, playing rough, touching and cuddling etc. which is why kids and rabbits aren’t especially compatible in general. Rabbits are also famous for getting underfoot, so make sure the kids don’t run when they are around him. I can’t tell you how often I have had my bun run straight into my foot as I’m walking around. I like to do the “bunny shuffle” if he’s close by, dragging my feet instead of actually walking so he won’t get stepped on.

Again , I hope you don’t take this the wrong way. I’m not saying kids are “bad”, but they do have bad judgement. 😉

Didn’t mean to write such a novel. 😆  I would encourage your wife to read this thread too if she isn’t already, so everyone is on the same page. 🙂

[dlattin]

Thanks to all for the responses this far, this is super helpful and I’m learning a ton. Also made sure to read the responses out loud to my wife at bedtime last night (‘There’s a bunny forum? Cool!’) 🙂 The current ex-pen is 3 ft tall and I have added a lock at the door ever since our friends’ kids came over. We also instituted a ‘no trying to hold the bunny’ and a ‘no going into the bunny without mom or dad’ rule.

I’ve been debating about adding the second ex-pen back. It was only 2 feet tall and the kids could climb over it to get inside and visit Coconut. Maybe it’s not worth it at this point in the interest of keeping Coconut safe and feeling secure. Do you think 6×4 ft is enough room for him right now? He really seemed to enjoy the extra space and often used it to run back and forth or do binkies.

Thanks again!

[DanaNM]

You’re welcome!

I think 6X 4 is a great amount of space to have 24/7, maybe you could just use the second pen add on when you are spending time with him? So that is is bonus exercise space that he gets when you are with him (and when the kids are supervised)?

Totally agree with Hazel about bunnies being dumped at shelters due to mishandling by kids. I volunteer at a rescue and have seen it first hand, with bunnies being given up because they were “mean” or afraid, but it turns out they were being caught and carried by young children all the time. Sorry if my first reply came off harsh in any way, I was remembering those cases and my mama-bear bunny instincts kicked in! It’s really great you are all working to learn and improve Coconut’s life and care, and lucky you found us! 😉

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

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