Need some encouragement

[LittlePuffyTail]

So, I ‘ve been dealing with Bindi’s ear infection for about a month now and things keep getting worse. I’m still doing the 2x daily cleaning and ear drops as well as 2x daily oral Baytril. He has lost about 4oz in the last month so the vet told me to start with the criticial care tomorrow. He eats all his pellets and veggies but is not very interested in his hay, which he is usually VERY interested in. She said start giving 1/10 package a day along with his regular food in 4 to 6 feedings. I’ve never used this before. Do you think he will eat the stuff in a dish or will I have to force feed him? I’m already doing so many unpleasant things to him, he dreads getting picked up

It’s really hard on me emotionally seeing him lose weight and not have as much energy. Also, he looks bad because his fur is all greasy from the ear meds, I guess it makes him look sicker than he is but it’s still sad. I have a re-check next Monday so I’m crossing my fingers this will all be over with and he will have no more ear infection!

[Cassi&Charlie]

I don’t know anything about CC or force feeding sorry but I think you’re doing great in a difficult situation.

Maybe he isn’t eating the hay cause it takes too much chewing, I know when I had an ear infection moving my jaw too much really hurt. Have you tried cutting it into little tiny bits?

(((Bindi)))

[Beka27]

i also have not used CC. someone will be along soon who has.

i was just thinking about Bindi yesterday. i was going to bump up your other thread for an update but then i forgot. thanks for posting. i know this has been very frustrating for you. i wonder if there’s anything else that might work for an ear infection if that’s not doing the trick?

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

Hey Puffy! {{ Calming Vibes }} For you and {{ Healing vibes}} for Bindi Loo

I’ve only used CC after a spay and here and there; not that much, but mine is flavoured like ‘anise’ (aka black licorice) No idea who had that idea but its pretty yucky. That being said it’s not that hard to forcefeed, and they do eat it pretty readily. If you have the banana strawberry stuff I’m sure he’ll like it. It’s not so bad! You can also use some pumpkin or squash baby food (They’ll ususally gobble that up on their own!) to help add some weight too

Thinking of you!! Keep us posted!

[Binkles]

Hmm…having been through a two-month long ear infection ordeal with Little-Bit, I can empathize with seeing apparent re-lapses..

But…I have a question for you. I’m especially curious since she’s been on the oral Baytril 2x’s daily for the two months, which is what I did with Little-Bit. What is it exactly that seems to be going downhill? And what was the bacteria causing the infection?

I ask this because, as I found out the hard way, prolonged use of baytril can actually kill too much of the bacteria, leaving an opening for other opportunistic bacteria/ fungi like yeast to take over. In Little-Bit’s case, her infection was caused by staph. Staph and yeast balance each other out in the right environment, but we killed too much of the staph, and the yeast basically took over where the yeast left off.

It wasn’t hard to fix, though. We simply took her off the Baytril once we realized what was happening and let the staph re-populate. Within a week or so, the balance became stable again.

I hope this helps.

[Sarita]

He may eat eat out of the bowl – I have never had any of my rabbits eat it this way but I do know of some rabbits that will. I would ask her about the Baytril too – maybe this isn’t working. Perhaps you need to do a culture to see what the infection is and what it is sensitive too – in fact I would encourage this since it is a reoccuring problem…it will probably be worth the cost in the long run.

[LittlePuffyTail]

Well I tried all day. He is impossible and I can’t force feed him. He clamps his mouth closed and freaks out. It goes all over my bf and his fur. I tried the burrito method, alone and with Ricky’s help. He was going absolutely nuts. It’s black licorice flavour (stinky) and I tried everything I know and couldn’t get any into him. I feel so helpless. He’s only got about another day of Baytril left, she said use it until the bottle is gone so I”m really hoping and praying he will start gaining weight again right after he is done the antibiotics. I don’t know what to do, any advice?

He is going to the vet on Monday and she is going to check for bacteria in his ears. If there is still some bacteria (hope and pray with me, there won’t be) I will ask what type of bacteria it is.

I just find it strange though, that he has an ear infection (or had) and his ears don’t seem to be bothering him at all. He’s never scratched or shook. But I am hopeful because there is hardly any residue in his ears now as opposed to when I brought him in the first place there was tons.

I think the worst part of this is the weight issue, I hate seeing my animals underweight and I don’t know what to do. Should I just wait and not try to force feed the cc since he only has one more day of Baytril? He’s eating all his pellets and veggies (and treats) just not too crazy about his hay, but he is eating some. It’s really hard to because he doesn’t want my attention like he used to, he’s so scared I’m gonna do something “mean” to him.

[Beka27]

could you do a pellet slurry mixed with a tiny bit of baby food to encourage him to eat? (why on earth would they make yucky tasting CC?) i don’t blame him for refusing it, yuck. maybe if the vet says he does need the CC, you can buy the yummy strawberry flavor instead, might have better luck with that.

i’ll keep my fingers and a couple sets of bunny ears crossed for you that this whole thing is cleared up…

[LittlePuffyTail]

I thought about making him some mushed up pellets but I’m concerned it might upset his stomach because his already getting the max reccommended amount of pellets for his weight. I think he’s mostly lost body mass because of the hay shortage.

[baby_daisy]

I hope everything gets better for you and Bindi really soon…

Feel better Bindi!!!

[Sarita]

Well basically the Critical Care is a pellet slurry with extra added stuff in it. It’s main ingredient is timothy hay. I don’t think even the Strawberry Banana formula is going to get a rabbit who won’t eat this stuff to eat it and probably the reason the vet wants you to give it to him is to help him put on a little weight on – don’t know why you can’t do this by increasing his pellets though.

Maybe you should try a different type of hay for him.

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

{{ VIBES }} The things they put us through!! I think BT tried this but she injected the medicine into a raisin…maybe that will help?

[LittlePuffyTail]

Well today is his last day of oral meds and he’s seeing the vet on Monday so I think I will just leave things as they are for this weekend and discuss things with the vet Monday and see what she thinks about his weight loss, etc. I will maybe give him a bit more pellets this weekend though. Last night I gave him his nightly hay and scattered some pellets through it to get him to maybe eat more hay and pellets. I want my plump little snuggler back!!

[Sarita]

How much does he weigh? It could just be the up and down weight fluctuation that anyone goes through. Was this just at one weighing? or has she weighed him every time you’ve taken him in?

[LittlePuffyTail]

First visit, about a month ago he weighed about 4 lbs 12 oz. Last visit (about 2 weeks ago) he was about 4 lbs, 10 oz. I weighed him a few days later on my own scale and it was 4 lbs, 9.5 oz and then earlier this week it was 4lb, 8 oz. I can tell he’s lost weight, when I pet him or pick him up. He is more bony. So he’s gradually losing weight but she said this can sometimes be a result of the Baytril so hopefully he will start going up again when he is off. I’m gonna weigh him again tonight and I will let you know.

[Sarita]

Yeah, the baytril is good stuff but it can have this side effect. I guess the benefits outweigh the risks though. Sometimes too scales vary as well.

Hopefully he’ll start munching down on the hay again soon. I’m currently giving one of my rabbits baytril for a UTI – just started it yesterday though – she is a big bunny though so if she loses a little weight it would be fine with my vet.

Is he a Holland Lop? When they are small like that you definitely want to maintain their weight.

[LittlePuffyTail]

He’s a mini lop. When I called the vet’s office to ask if they had critical care and wanted to leave a message for the vet that he lost weight she asked how much weight he lost and I said “4 oz” and I think she must have thought I was a total paranoid idiot. Then I said, “he only weighs 4 lbs” and she said “oh, okay”

[JohnO]

this may help with getting him to eat hay, when i have a sick horse we soke the yah in worm water for a cupple houers and drain it well nut leav it moist(helps rehigrate the hores leaving it a littl;e wet) thay hay is then verry eazy for them to chew, i would take some mint and crush it up and take hay and water and put it in boiling hot water let it steep for a little untill the hay is soft and see if he will eat the mint flavored hay

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

LOL Puffy

he only weighs 4 lbs” and she said “oh, okay”

If it makes you feel any better, I have to give Chuck an eyewash and drops every single day and I’m sure he hates me!!

[MooBunnay]

JO Blizard – That is really interesting about creating the mint flavored hay, I have never heard of that before. That might also be very helpful for people who have bunnies with teeth problems!

Little Puffy Tail: I’m so sorry to hear things are so difficult for Bindi (and for you!) It is really hard to deal with when your animals are sick. Force feedings are always difficult, I’ve tried to explain my method a few times, but its a little complicated. I sit on my knees on the floor and put the bunny between my legs with the bunny facing away from me. I then lean over the bunny (using my chest area to keep the bunny from leaping out from between my knees, and put one hand on the bunnies chest, (and sometimes chin) to keep his head up. This probably wasn’t totally helpful, but if you try it and have questions let me know!

Keep up the good work with Bindi – you are doing the best you can and I know that Bindi really appreciates it, even if he doesn’t totally enjoy his meds He knows that you are keeping him healthy!

[KatnipCrzy]

I would like to hear others input on this also- but we usually limit pellets and feed Timothy/grass hays to keep their weight manageable.  If he is losing weight- you should be able to increase his pellet amount and even try offering some Alfalfa hay or some Alfalfa pellets mixed in with his “usual”.  Since his body is fighting illness and you want to increase his calories- this might be a no fight way for you to do that.

Just be sure to add any new Alfalfa stuff in moderation to not overload his gut with richer food than he is used to.

[LittlePuffyTail]

When I was trying to force feed him I tried everything I could think of but it was so hard because his little face is very flat and he just clamps his mouth shut. I’ve had to force feed Stormy many times and he was a lot easier.

He is off his oral meds now so I’m hoping he starts eating like himself again.

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

Katnip I agree 100%

Pellets are limited to control weight and to help them eat more hay. If they are losing weight or skinny, I’d say start slowly increasing pellets.
Also Alfalfa, the big concern is calcium and calories. If they’ve never had problems with sludge you should easily be able to add a handful or so daily. I do feed mine alfalfa every so often as a treat-they love it more then veggies!

Puffy thank goodness the oral meds are done!!

[LittlePuffyTail]

I always thought too much pellets could lead to statis????

We have a vet appointment tommorow at 1:00. Wish us luck!

[Binkles]

Pellets can contribute to stasis IF the bunny isn’t getting enough water and fiber to balance them out.

:3 Good luck tomorrow!

[Beka27]

i’m thinking about you guys today! please let us know what the vet says!

[LittlePuffyTail]

: ( The vet said it’s good news that she can get a full view of inside his ear but there is still lots of bacteria and a little inflammation. So he has to remain on the ear drops and x2 day cleanings. Another check in two weeks. 4 vet trips so far for this ear infection.

I feel really bad having to take him to the vet so often. He used to not be too bothered by it,but today he was terrified. It makes me so sad. She said he should start gradually gaining the weight back since he’s off the Baytril but make sure he gets lots of hay and a full cup of veggies a day.

I was so hoping this would be all over with. It’s sad because he looks like almost a different bunny because his fur is so greasy and gross, like a bunny who is not washing, but he’s constantly washing, trying to get the ear drop grease off. Another two weeks of ear drops, sigh…It really doesn’t help that I got this bad ear news about an hour after hearing bad new about my horse’s health (I’ll get into that some other time).

[Beka27]

oh Bindi Loo!!! hang in there LPT. it’ll be done with soon enough. you’re doing a great job!

[rabbitsmba]

LPT, so sorry to hear about all of this. Do you know if him not eating hay has anything to do with his teeth? Maybe they should be checked just to make sure they don’t need a filing…?

I have had to administer CC many times and it is never fun! Sometimes mixing it with babyfood helps but in the end it ends up increasing the amount you have to feed them. Do you know about a bunny’s licking reflex? Take your hand and place it on top of their head, fingers facing forward. Use your thumb and index finger to pull up the corners of the mouth into a “smile”. Stick the syringe tip in the corner of their mouth and this will trigger their licking relfex – squirt in some food.

Also do you have a feeding syringe? it is nearly impossible to feel CC using a small medication syringe. Feeding syringes are much fatter – your vet hopefully gave you one of those.

And then the wrestling begins – your bunny will look at you with such hatred and disgust as you hunker them down and try to give them the CC. In reality, whenever I have given it, I’m lucky if half of it gets in. The rest is on the burrito towel, the wall, my clothes, the curtains, my hair – you get the picture. I also find it helpful to give it in small doses throughout the day. And I also have a fat syringe of water too, and I will give them a bit of CC followed by some water. i think it just helps them to get it down.

Administering CC to a bunny that hates it (which is about 90% of all bunnies!) is a nightmare and I feel for you. But with practice, determination, patience and some sweet talking, you will get the job done.

I also agree with KatNip – perhaps switch to alfalfa hay for the time being – this should help put on some weight. Good luck!

[Cassi&Charlie]

(((Bindi)))

Sorry to hear you’re having a hard time with your horses health as well. Good luck!

[KatnipCrzy]

Isn’t it the worst when you feel horrible for doing what is best for your pet but your pet hates it???  Hang in there it sounds like you are seeing progress.

Couple of questions- you were able to stop the oral Baytril so hopefully his appetite picks up again, right?  So you are still using ear drops?  To maybe try to keep some of the greasiness to a minimum you could apply meds, rub the base of the ear to massage the meds where they need to go- does he shake his head after this?  Even if he does not- you could take a tissue and wipe the external inside part of his ear.  If the inside of his ears are not inflammed you can wipe the meds off and not affect treatment.  If the infection is deep in his ear- the meds don’t do any good on the external ear anyway- so keeping them clean after applying won’t hurt.  I hope I am explaining this right- but if any meds got on his ears where you can see it when you flip it over (cute loppy ears!) then that can immediately be wiped away- it won’t get back down into the ear canal where it is needed.  The only time ears meds can help the external ear is if they are red, inflammed or have a “cobble-stone” appearance.

Not sure if I already asked you this- when you clean his ears- squirt the solution in, massage it around- before you swab out the gook do you let him shake his head first?  My vet has found that if the pet will shake it’s head the gook loosened up by the cleaning solution is pushed further out the ear canal which is a good thing.   Unfortunately when we clean ears we are sticking stuff in to swab it out- and that can push some of the debris back the way we don’t want it to go- closer to the ear drum.

I hope Bindi feels better soon- I have a huge soft spot for Lop bunnies. 

Julie

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

{{ BINDI}} Hang in there LPT You’re doing the right thing and he should come round soon!

[LittlePuffyTail]

He seems to be eating more hay today and yesterday. So that’s good.

When I do the ear drops, sometimes he shakes, sometimes he doesn’t but I put 2-3 drops in, massage it, leave it in for a few minutes and then wipe out the excess with a cosmetic cotton pad. Every other night I started washing the outside of his ears with a hot, wet cloth and he looks a little less greasy.

Thanks for all the encouragement! I appreciate it!

[Lightchick]

Hang in there, LPT! (Sorry to hear about your horse, too…I hope he/she is okay?)

((((Bindi Loo))))

[skunklionshow]

It’s heart breaking when you work like a dog to get the meds in and your pet loses weight and looks a mess from the meds.  My bunnies look like hell when they are really sick when I have to force feed b/c they have meds stuck to their fur, dried CC, and just scrawniness.  Oh it breaks the heart, so I feel for you…but this too will pass!

[KatnipCrzy]

If they can’t get this to resolve on meds they might need to culture the gunk in the ear to see what type of bacteria it is and what it is sensitive too.  There can be yeast in the ear also/ or a combo of- but usually yeast is not resistant like some bacterias are.

Poor Bindi- sounds like Mom is going to make him a custom “Uppy Eared Rabbit” ear retainer/frame/kit  for Christmas.  LOL. 

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

WOOT sounds like your doing it like a pro!! I bet he likes the warm ear bath!

Katnip-LMAO!!!

[skunklionshow]

Good point Katnip!  I had a cat that all the vets thought had bad ears due to major mite infections as a kitten.  One vet decided to be more aggressive & treat as yeast…..walla…it cleaned up very well.  However, since his tx’s for hyperthyroid & developing bad allergies & asthma,  they are back to the yuck!

[LittlePuffyTail]

I just can’t understand how his ears get infected. She said the best prevention is cleaning his ears but I clean them like 4 times a week and before I found out they were infected I was cleaning them every day.

[Hedi]

Wow LPT- this is bad on you and your baby.

I have to agree w/ Katnip- just like with humans- continual treatment with antibiotics and it doesnt clear up usually is a sign to change treatment plans OR actually get a sample to check to see what you are really treating.

Maybe there will be a way to really prevent this easier than what you are going thru…Maybe suggest at your next visit to have her do a culture just to be safe. Long term antibotics for animals is just as bad as for humans- he may be building up a tolerance and then that antibiotic could be not as effective the next time he really needs it. And of course, if you don’t truely know WHAT You are treating then you can’t accurately give the right medication. Especially since rabbits do have more antibiotic options than just Baytril.

Does anyone else think it is kinda odd the vet hasn’t offered to do a culture yet?

Make sure he has some good toys and a nice blankey for comfort.

[LittlePuffyTail]

I’m going back to the vet on Friday the 5th and if it’s not cleared up I’m gonna make sure she does a culture and tries something else. This will be my 4th visit for his ears. It’s getting pretty expensive. One reason it might not be cleared up yet though, is she said there is still a lot of buildup deep in the canal so it’s possible the antibiotics are not fully able to get to the bacteria so I’m cleaning his ears still 2x a day very vigorously much to his disapproval unfortunetly.

[LittlePuffyTail]

Vet appointment at 1:00 tommorrow. Wish us luck. Unfortunetly, I’m not very optimistic about it since the last 3 went bad.

[Beka27]

maybe the 4th time’s the charm! i’ll keep Bindi in my thoughts…

squeaky clean ear vibes!

[LittlePuffyTail]

I’m so happy! Bindi’s ears got a clean bill of health today!!!! I was so relieved.

[jerseygirl]

Yay for Bindi ! Persistance has paid off.  Happy to hear things are turning in more positive direction > hope there’s more positives to follow!

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

WOOT!!! *pops champagne* totally worth celebrating Puffy tail!! That’s so awesome!!

[BinkyBunny]

Yahooo!!! I know it has been a stressful run – just so glad it’s over!

[Beka27]

thank goodness!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

give Bindi some nose rubs for me LPT!

(hugs!) you done good lady!

[LittlePuffyTail]

Now we’ve just got to work on getting him back to his little chubby bunny self.

[Author]

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