Need advice on working out dominance

[pinkiemarie]

So for those of you who have read my previous topics you know that I am bonding a lovely pair of neutered males with a very sassy spayed female. Things have been going very slowly but I know they can be bonded.

My issue at this point is that the female is about 7.5 lbs and one of my males is about 2.5 lbs. The female likes to bite a little harder than necessary to assert dominance and it scares him and he starts bouncing around like a pinball, which freaks her out so she escalates, you get the picture. She does the same thing with my 2nd male but he’s the same size as her so he just backs away for a second and doesn’t get upset. I was just reading that someone else is having a similar issue too with a larger and smaller rabbit but it sounds like their situation is a bit different than ours.

 

Has anyone ever helped 2 rabbits work out dominance when one is scared of being bitten or otherwise attacked by the other, especially in a situation where there can’t be a fair fight? This morning I had them together and nobody groomed today but they sat there for the longest time with their noses touching while I petted their heads and both of them were purring…then she tried to nip him. I get the feeling from his behavior that he will allow her to be dominant but is holding back on bonding because she won’t stop the biting. Any suggestions would be welcome! They haven’t done a car ride in some time so that’s on the agenda this weekend, but I think it’s possible we may be beyond the point where that actually helps since we’re trying to work out the dominance issue.

[Wick & Fable]

Important question: Bite or nip?

I understand a nip for a larger rabbit can be veering towards the same pain as a bite to the receiving smaller rabbit, but I think a part of the bonding process may need to be the larger rabbit realizing that the nipping does not amount to anything productive. It also tells me that when you’re petting them, the “biter” is not in a completely calm state in actuality, so that’s just something to keep in mind. I have a larger (7lb) and smaller (2.5lb) bonded-ish pair, except, as you mention, it is different. The smaller one is the nipper, and admittedly that is why they are “bondish” rather than “bonded”.

In my pair, I will calmly stop the smaller one from nipping while comforting the larger one, as to do two things (I hope): 1) lower the energy of the biting rabbit so it can fully attend to what’s happening, which is that 2) the larger rabbit is not reacting in an aggressive way towards the biting and will continue being calm. I sort of instituted the policy that the smaller rabbit biting the larger rabbit is never going to make her (larger rabbit) go away, but at the same time she isn’t going to retaliate back. Over time, the smaller rabbit learned to not nip her (except sometimes randomly, but he stops after one generally…).

The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.

[DanaNM]

Car rides can certainly help when you get stuck in a rut, so I would try that if you can.

What kind of space are you using? If it’s small and he’s bouncing around a lot, a much larger space might help. That way he could move away without it creating a commotion and stirring everyone up. Large spaces with tunnels and hides (with at least 2 exits) can also be really good for timid bunnies, as it lets them interact more calmly and not feel cornered.

Just as an aside, it’s tempting to try to figure out all the details of what they are saying, but try not to guess too much as to which bunny is the “problem” as I’ve noticed it can set things back a bit. For example, it’s tempting to say, “if only she would stop nipping, he would groom her!”, where as she might be saying “if only he would groom me, I wouldn’t have to nip him!”. One of my friends at the rescue always says that “rabbits don’t speak rabbit”, so just give them time to learn each other’s language.

 

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Wick & Fable]

Love a lot of what you mention @DanaNM!

I will note that adding structures into a bonding space, whether it’s a tunnel, litterbox, etc. can arouse some territorial aggression, so just be on guard for that if you add anything in that space.

The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.

[pinkiemarie]

Thank you both for the advice and I really needed the insight about what might be going through Clover’s head when she does that. After a lot of this it definitely gets easier to put it on her but he’s in the relationship too. And he’s very nice with her and has been for 6 months, but he used to be aggressive towards her so I should be more kind about how I think and speak about her. I love her so much but sometimes she does frustrate me!

 

We tried a litter box and hay a few times and it did not go well. It was a new box but it definitely resulted in her being much more aggressive. I have tried very small spaces and spaces that are the size of a full ex pen. I’ve had more success in smaller spaces.

 

We will try the car ride followed by a date and see how it goes. Maybe it will break them out of the rut! I’ve been pleased with the progress since I stopped having all 3 in there together at once, but we have definitely plateaued.

 

[DanaNM]

Ooh  yeah litter boxes are often a problem, I was thinking more of tunnels or other obstacles to help break up chases and line of sight when things get tense. I like using boxes with both ends opened up, so they are more of a short square tunnel.

They can be hit or miss though, as Wick said. Sometimes one bunny will claim a hide and get territorial over it, so in those cases I usually remove them.

If you haven’t tried it yet (and if the car ride doesn’t seem to help), see if you can try a really big space, like 2 or 3 x-pens linked up. Margo DeMello of the San Diego HRS does a lot of group bondings and she recommends 3 x-pens minimum for a trio bond, ideally larger!

It does sound like you are making progress though, so it prob just means they need more time. It can seem like nothing is happening forever, and then one day they decide they are best friends!

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[pinkiemarie]

Unfortunately I don’t have space big enough for that many pens except in the area they live in, which is definitely not neutral. I’ll try some kind of obstacle though!

[DanaNM]

Gotcha, yeah spaces that big are challenging! I had to use my friend’s garage.

Which reminds me of another tip… sometimes trying a completely new space can work wonders. If you are still not seeing any progress in a couple more weeks after trying car rides, you might start asking some friends if you can do some bonding in their kitchen or garage. I know with covid that might be tricky, and depending on where you are the weather might not be nice enough for that, but whenever I’ve been really stuck in a bond moving to a new house has worked wonders. Especially with long bondings, the original neutral space becomes not that neutral after a while, and the added stress of a change of scenery can really help.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[pinkiemarie]

Well today did not work out how I had hoped. It got really cold and I didn’t want to take them outside while it’s below zero so I just did a regular date and thought I’d just try to be less handsy and see how that went. Clover bit him in the butt so hard! I pushed her head down and she still wouldn’t let go and he couldn’t get away…sigh. I’m not doing this again until it’s warm enough to take them outside. I had taken them to my sister’s house a few times but I have to hole up with them in a bedroom because her cats aren’t familiar with rabbits and my mom has since turned that into a craft room and there’s literally no space now. I’m thinking about maybe just going on their living room but I’m just not sure about those cats.

[DanaNM]

Bummer :/

I wouldn’t worry about the cats… since you will be there I doubt they will be a problem (and might actually provide a distraction for the buns to focus on other than each other).

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

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