My old bunny quit eating grass!

[Gordo and Janice]

First, not sure if I am even posting or asking in the right spot.  New to this.  Second, tried searching but couldn’t find any information other than general stuff regarding diets.  So here goes…

Our little albino angora rabbit (Icey) of almost 8 years old (cataracts in both eyes so blind for all purposes) had stopped eating her grass and pellets gradually over time.  Maybe our fault with too much lettuce, we don’t know.  But we took her to the vet.  The vet said her back teeth needed to be filed.  So we took her in, they put her under, filed her back teeth, and shaved her body because her angora hair was matted.  The vet said after a couple of days her soreness in her mouth would improve and she should return to eating hay or grass.  After the visit she would not eat anything and one day I swear she didn’t poop at all for the entire day.  So went back to the vet.  Vet suggested we force feed with critical care and give her all the greens she wanted for now just so she has something in her gut and some energy to live.  

It’s been almost a week now.  She will only eat greens, maybe an occasional pellet because we are trying to cut back on the greens to get her to eat grass and I presume she is hungry.  Cutting back on the greens seems to be making her more lethargic.  Of course her poop has no fiber so it’s a mess.  She used to have the run of the house (bunny proofed of course) but now with the messy fecal issues she is confined to her cage which is heart breaking to me and I’m sure depressing to her.

So does anyone have experience or advice on how to get her to begin eating grass again?  I was hoping that if we began to limit the greens then out of shear hunger she would begin eating the grass.  But instead it seems she is just not eating and getting lethargic.  We don’t want to starve her to death and we don’t know how to address this.  We also don’t want to continue to force feed and give greens.  It perpetuates the messy poops which confines her to her cage (and gets all over her feet, bottom, and tail), can’t be good for the quality of her cecotropes and therefore her health, and will only end up with her teeth overgrowing again and maybe soon.  We feel like she still has some life to live.  We would like what’s left to be of quality and not misery.  We are lost.  

[Wick & Fable]

Is there an atypical type of hay you can give her to re-stimulate the hay appetite? Perhaps you usually give her timothy, and the scent of sweet orchard hay may peak her interest, getting her to nibble and eventually continuing to eat. Younger or older, I feel rabbits stay a bit curious with new scents/unfamiliar scents since they are very senses-oriented. Maybe that may help.

You could potentially wrap a few strands of hay in a romaine lettuce roll and feed it to her to force her to have some. If she spits it out, that can be a sign that the hay is still aggravating her mouth.

Wick is a notorious hay-spitter-outer, where he’ll really chew on a piece then just spit it all out. It used to only happen before he needed a grinding, but now it’s a permanent habit. I’ve been experimenting to get him to eat more hay because recently he’s only been eating the fuzzy-tops of timothy, even showing no interest to his past orchard hay. I purchased Oxbow Harvest stacks, which is compressed hay, so the hay strands are smaller and curly-q’d; not long and straight. Unsure if it’s taste or texture, but Wick eats the harvest stack hay much more comprehensively and thoroughly than loose hay. I’ll be converting to solely harvest stack hay next month after this obersvation. Maybe you can try this? Wick has an underbite/malocclusion. He’s 1yo and has had 4 molar grindings, so I hope his eating habits may help out with Icey’s!

The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.

[Gordo and Janice]

Thank you so much for responding.  Nice to know someone cares and takes an interest.  Early on when she was young we determined she was an orchard grass bunny.  She wouldn’t touch the timothy hay.  We used to get a Timothy Hay plus type of hay (maybe Katee brand – can’t remember) and she would only eat all the “plus” but no hay.  Tried the orchard grass and away she went.  It’s been orchard grass and pellets all her life with the occasional nut for treat (she used to go crazy for the nuts!)

We tried interspersing the grass with the romaine lettuce, doesn’t work.  My wife tries to hand feed her a strand at a time.  She just jerks it out of her hand so she quits putting it in her face and bites it in half and drops it.

Today is another bad day.  Not eating.  She looks so miserable it kills me.  I work from home so she has been my little buddy for years. She used to always come to find me, give me little bumps on my feet and ankles or stand up on my leg to let me know it’s time for some petting and cuddling.

I feel like if she would just start eating her grass again, everything would be fine.  She would be keeping her teeth in check, getting the proper nutritional profile for sure, lots of fiber to solidify her poops for clean droppings, be able to run around the house free, and be happy and interactive a little longer.  I just don’t know how to get her to chew the grass.  Drives me crazy.  We were hoping someone had experienced a very similar situation and could just *BAM* give us the miracle solution.

Again thanks for caring enough to respond.  I appreciate you.

[jerseygirl]

Did you have some pain meds to take home after her dental? Perhaps she’s still quite sore?

We had another member recently have similar worries with her rabbit taking longer then she expected for him to start eating normally again after a trim. He did come good again.

Will your girl eat the critical care from a bowl perhaps?
Or a good pinch of rolled oats will give some energy and help firm up her poop, hopefully.

If you can find some pure hay pellets, you could soak them hot water until soft and broken apart and see if that’s enticing. It would help getting the right fibre through her system until she’s eating normally again. You could do this with regular pellets too, if necessary.

[Wick & Fable]

I’m envious of rabbits who will eat hand-given hay. Wick is much too particular about his hay. I can’t even differentiate what’s a “good” or “bad” fuzzy top. They look the same to me, but apparently Wick thinks otherwise.

If you fill a box with orchard hay and just plop her in it, do you think she’d at least sniff around to try and find an appetizing piece? Maybe she hasn’t been trying because the current selection isn’t to her liking texture/shape wise due to her mouth being sore.

The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.

[sarahthegemini]

I know you said she’s confined to her cage at the moment due to the messy poop but do you think if she got a little exercise, it’d build up an appetite? You could put towels or puppy pads down to save your floors?

[Luna]

Maybe her teeth need to be re-checked? Does anyone know if secondary dental issues (ie. an abscess) can arise from just a molar filing without extraction?

[Wick & Fable]

From my experience, a molar grinding can aggravate a dormant tooth infection. This happened to Wick. Re-examining the teeth with an otoscope and looking for excess saliva/bubbles can be a good sign of whether her teeth are still the issue.

The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.

[Gordo and Janice]

Thank you again everyone for responding.

Yes, once a day first thing in the morning .6 ml Meloxidyl (meloxicam).  For two weeks starting last Tuesday.  The actual procedure was done last Thursday.

We thought about putting the critical care in a bowl, but it being her only fiber and us concerned about the viability of her gut flora and motility we want to make sure she gets and ingests a certain amount so Janice holds her while I feed her slowly with the syringe.

Will try the moistened pellets (Timothy Complete is what we use).

I don’t think the box with Hay will work.  I think she will jump out or sit there, crouch down, and end up pooping and peeing in it.  She can easily get into the bowl (about 1 1/2 to 2 inch lip) and there is plenty to search from.  In fact when looking for her greens she sticks her head in there and sniffs around quite a bit, but no interest.

I let her out and put towels down on her favorite spots.  Allows me to change out the pee soaked and poop smeared towels while she is out.  She has no interest in exercising other than moving to her usual spots.

Yes, I believe at this point we are going to have to take her back in again.  Have the vet look and see.  I hate it because that in itself is always stressful for her (now more so, since she is blind, I think).  They may have to do blood work, again, from what I understand, VERY STRESSFUL.  Whatever is happening may be out of our control at this point.

She looks so miserable.  If you watch real close, you see her head moving and you definitely see her ears shaking, almost trembling.  She leaks a little brown liquid wherever she stops and sits (I thought due to only greens and not enough fiber).  Not really interested in her greens today.

I’m always worried that we have done or not done something that is hastening her decline.  Kills me.

Thank you all again.

[Gordo and Janice]

And help me with the logic or understanding at this point.

If a rabbit is not in pain or did not feel sick, and whether you did or did not withhold any greens, would that rabbit naturally prefer and eat orchard grass and hay as well as the greens?

And beyond a shadow of a doubt if you withheld all greens would that pain free and otherwise healthy rabbit naturally and easily gravitate toward the only thing and the natural thing of eating the orchard grass and hay without any hesitation and do so in a quantity that is meeting her nutritional needs?

Or could we have messed everything up by giving romaine lettuce, in addition to her grass and hay, for breakfast and late at night?

[Luna]

Maybe she might be interested in some compressed timothy hay cubes? She might perceive it as something new enough to peak her interest to eat it?

I guess technically, a healthy rabbit without any dental issues will eat hay if that is the only food option available to them. However, in practice, I don’t know if anyone would risk having a bun refuse hay and not eat anything if the bun hasn’t been eating the hay. So I think you were definitely right in supplying veggies . Also, if you do decide to leave out some mixed critical care in a bowl, remember that after mixing it with water that it is only good for 12 hours left unrefrigerated.

[Wick & Fable]

The standard, healthy rabbit would prefer:
1) Treats
2) Veggies/Pellets
3) Hay
* This varies even for healthy rabbits. Some rabbits really like hay over veggies, and other swaps on that list.
— Typically, if a rabbit (healthy) is not eating hay, it could be because non-hay food items are distributed frequently enough that the rabbit would wait/beg for non-hay items than eat hay.

A rabbit who is uncomfortable, despite when you do/do not withhold food, will typically engage in selective eating. The selective eating is more so based on their feeling, not how you’ve presented things. For example, when a human is sick, some people like drinking hot soup and the idea of eating a burger or pizza makes them feel ill. The same could be said for rabbits, and like humans, every case can be different. Wick never stops eating any of his items when he’s in discomfort.

Now for your “shadow of a doubt” question, I lean towards yes. If a rabbit is hungry and has no other items to satisfy it, it will eat hay. Hay is not too high in nutritional content, so eating pellets and a bit of greens is recommended.

The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.

[Gordo and Janice]

Thanks again for your continued responses.

I will let you know how things progress.  Hopefully for the better and not the worse.  Those compressed timothy hay cubes…any pet store?  Are they small like sugar cubes, child blocks, bigger?  Just curious so I know how to recognize them.

[Luna]

I’d say about half of pet stores have them, or you can order them online. They are larger than sugar cubes, but they are layered so you can rip 1 cube up into several smaller pieces:

Here’s what the bag looks like https://www.chewy.com/kaytee-natural-timothy-cubes-small/dp/122921?utm_source=google-product&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=f&utm_content=Kaytee&utm_term=&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIouLmss321wIVGbbACh1lcAGqEAQYASABEgIQn_D_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

[jerseygirl]

Could you try some things like rose leaves, petals, stems and some fresh or dried willow?
Those are my go-to items when I have a rabbit off their regular food. They seem to favour those 2 things.

[Gordo and Janice]

Just an update for those curious.  Icey still has an appetite.  Absolutely goes nuts for the green leaf lettuce, bok choy, and kale (which we have begun to limit because of oxalic acid, so we read).  Don’t know if she goes absolutely nuts because she absolutely loves it or she is absolutely starving.  Won’t touch the orchard grass, timothy hay, brome hay, coastal hay, or timothy hay pellets.

Force feeding critical care is stressful for her and us both.  Still doing it as well though, mixing it with half water and half baby apple juice for enticement.

Appointment with vet Thursday.

She is blind (cataracts) so interacting with her environment is not something she really does anymore (other than bumping into things to get around).  But she loves affection and is almost voracious when it comes to her greens and the occasional core of the strawberry.

Question regarding this teeth filing that vets do.  How much of an exact science should it be?  With us humans, dentists are reasonably concerned with getting the occlusion correct.  Not sure how vets do it but it seems like they just ball park it.  Is that not a problem?  If those little suckers aren’t touching perfectly it doesn’t seem there would be any desire to put a piece of grass in your mouth that you can’t effectively grind between your teeth.  Or do most rabbits just grind and grind until all the teeth match up perfect again?  Asked the vet and they gave us their answer but looking for an objective 3rd party’s answer with some insight.

[Gordo and Janice]

Another thing.  The vet said that we have to remember she is old and she just may have decided that she is no longer interested in, and no longer going to eat, grass and hay.  Does that sound familiar to anyone?  I thought it was such instinct that it happens until they are done with life (of course with the exception of a chewing issue involving disease and/or pain).  Has this happened to anyone with their old bunny?

[Dee]

Hi, I recently went through a similar experience. My bunny stopped eating his greens first though, then hay, and ended up having molar spurs. After they were ground down, it took him about 2 weeks, maybe a bit more, to really start eating normally. Very scary!

Icy is only eight, so I wouldn’t think she would be done with life quite yet ☺. I agree that being caged after being free roam, even though it’s for a good reason, might be really upsetting her or causing her stress. I had a bunny with chronic poopy butt, so I know what a mess it is! Maybe you could put sheets down? Or just run around once in a while giving the poopy spots a little wash with a hot soapy cloth. That’s what I did for my bunny, but my house doesn’t have really nice expensive rugs or fabric furniture.

I also force red Critical Care and felt like I was torturing my poor little bunny. But I kept reminding myself, if it was one of my kids when they were small refusing to take meds or get in a lukewarm bath with a high fever, I wouldn’t hesitate to force them to do what was needed to get them healthy. That helped me feel a little better.

I let Luke have pretty much anything he wanted until he was eating and acting more normaly, so I think you should keep giving the greens. At least that’s healthy food going into Icy’s belly!

You could try a small amount of oats- regular rolled oats like for oatmeal. Some ppl disagree on feeding them, but I’ve read that they can help with poopy butt, and my rabbits have always loved them esp when recovering from illness. I only give maybe a teaspoon or two to a 4lb rabbit.

I really hope Icy starts feeling better!

[Gordo and Janice]

Wow, so cold up there in Upton.  Dee, where do we get these regular rolled oats?  Doesn’t sound like typical Quaker Oats oatmeal.  Please excuse our ignorance.

And thanks for responding.

She is 8 but according to the vet, for an albino, that’s reeeeeeally old.  And she is blind from cataracts in both eyes.  We so want her to be back to normal.  It seems like such a miserable experience for her.  She seems stressed all the time.  She hasn’t laid down and relaxed ever since the doctors visit almost two weeks ago.  She just balls up and looks miserable.  Sometimes it looks like she may be shaking.  Her breathing and teeth grinding don’t seem to be the same either.  She has also stopped using her litter box.  Now she just poops and pees (a ton it seems) right in her little cubby hole where she sits.  We are changing out towels twice a day and washing them everyday.

Two things for sure though.  When I come into the room or into the house after being gone for a bit, she rushes the door of the cage sticking her nose through all the little bars frantically like, “Feed me!  Where’s the food? Where’s the food? Is it between these bars? No? Maybe between these over here?  Up higher maybe?  Down at the bottom?”  It’s crazy.  So again I don’t know if she is desperately starving or just really looking forward to some more greens.  So she does have an appetite.

And the other thing for sure is she still loves her pettings.

So I am hoping for what at this point seems like a miracle.

Thanks again for your response.

[Gordo and Janice]

Nevermind Dee.  I just looked it up.  So simple.  Thanks again for your advice, suggestions, and encouragement.

[Author]

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