My bunnies are driving me CRAZY!!!!

[Tango87]

Ok so I am a new owner to 4 beautiful bunnies. We have had them for about 2 months now and have been dealing with their ridiculous problem…

So here is the issue. THESE DARN BUNNIES DO NOT STOP KICKING ALL OF THEIR FOOD OUT OF THEIR FEEDER! My girlfriend and I are wasting so much food because they keep putting their front feet in it and kicking it out all over. We have tried 3 different feeders and we can’t seem to stop this issue. We have even raised the feeder really high so that they can barely reach it and not be able to put their feet in it. We stopped this because we were worried that they wouldn’t be able eat. Any suggestions guys? This is driving us crazy…

We have a hutch with a slide under it to catch all of the poop. When they kick their food out it falls through the grate and ends up with their poop. We have tried putting a “food catcher” under the grate-under the feeder but it does not work very well.

Thanks in advance!

 

[KatnipCrzy]

Are all 4 bunnies housed in the same cage?  If they are no wonder they are kicking the food out of the feeder!  4 bunnies kept together would need a cage way bigger than any petstore cage ever made!

How old are the bunnies?  It is possible they are squabbling and or protesting such close confinement that their activity is dumping the pellets more than an purposeful action.

I would highly suggest that you visit rabbit.org and read about rabbit care and requirements.  It sounds as though you have a lot of potential issues with the bunnies- wire grate flooring, feeding unlimited pellets, housing so many in a hutch, if they are spayed/neutered, what else is in their diet, bonding them together, exercise time, etc.

There is also some good info under the tab at the top of the BinkyBunny page “Bunny Info”

I would read that stuff- and then we can answer more specific questions and you can tell us some more background info about the bunnies and their diet, health and housing.

[BinkyBunny]

Welcome Tango! Sounds quite frustrating. I would also like to get a better picture of the housing situation as this can help us help you once we know a bit more.

How old are your bunnies?

[PEPPA GEORGIE]

Are you feeding them a mix rather than pellets, as i have heard they can do that with the mix so that they can pick out the best bits. Could be wrong though, my guinea pigs do this too so had to get a heavier larger bowl and that seemed to sort them, but they are alot smaller and only two of them. x

[RabbitPam]

Hi, Tango,
I think I would start with eliminating the grate, which is bad for their feet, and putting down a solid floor with litter pans for them to learn to use instead. I agree with Katnipcrzy that it probably means getting some new cages to rehouse them with more space. Are they indoors?

How did you end up with 4? Are they siblings? Separating them if they are different genders is an absolute must as they will have their hormones active in only a few months and siblings can impregnate each other.

One thing you can try for the food right away is to get a cat litter pan and place it under the feeder. Then if they spill the food, it will be caught below. Put a floor, or temporarily spread out some newsprint paper, across the floor so they can sit and stand in comfort. Then add a litter box near the feeder so they will learn to use it. Since rabbits like to forage, it’s not bad for them to knock the hay down and eat it from there.
Pictures of your set up will be helpful to see.

[Tango87]

Ok so I will try to address everyone.

Wow! I really hope their cage isnt too small! The last thing I want to be doing is hurting the bunnies. It’s a very large cage though but I guess it may not be ina  bunny’s mind. I put a littler box in their cage for them but they only pe in there and poop every so often. I was told that if you put a littler box in that they automatically will learn to use it because they are nataurally clean?

I am using a mix of food and that is what I was thinking. But there are many pellets and they still will kick them out… So who knows…

None of my rabbits are spayed/neutered. We only have one boy, we ae going to seperate him today.

I would love to get rid of the grate floor but they just poop and pee everywhere! Like I said earlier, they are not always using their litter box…

Sorry guys I’m a noobie with this and I’m trying my best to make them happy. BTW someone asked how we got four bunnies. A friend of my girlfriends works for wildlife zoo out here and I guess he only had a certain amount of time to get rid of these rabbits before they were eliminated and used as food. We didn’t want them to die so we chose to keep them. And since we have had them for about 2 months now we have grown to love them like they are our children. We play with them daily.

I attached photos of their living arrangement.

[Adalaide]

I’m no expert, but that does look rather small. It may be big enough for one bun, but they’re just a bit crowded. I got Freya one of those corner litterboxes. She hates it. It simply isn’t big enough, so I went to walmart and replaced it with a few cat boxes and she’s happy now. I’m glad to hear you are seperating the boy, but you may already be in for a surprise. The really big concern, more than the size is the floor. Regardless of how much more time it will take to clean with a different floor, that wire just isn’t safe. You’ll just end up with vet bills when they get sores on their feet, which can get infected. Besides, bunny poop is the worlds easiest thing to clean up. Freya is still learning and poops in the bathroom wherever she likes, which I can just sweep into a dustpan. In the living room when she goes out of her box I just vaccuum it up, no big deal.
Do you have somewhere to let them out to play. They really need a lot of excercise and will be much happier if they get some time to play.

[Tango87]

the pictures really don’t do it much justice. It’s about 2 feet deep, 3.25 feet wide and 2.5 feet tall. So it’s pretty big but I don’t know if its big enough.

[MooBunnay]

 Hello Tango87, I’m glad you came to Binkybunny I think we will be able to help you out quite a bit. First, the cage is really too small for 4 bunnies. Ideally each bunny as at least that amount of space to him or herself. There are some really great ideas on what kind of cages to make in our gallery here. Grates are really bad for a bunny’s feet because they cause an issue called “sore hocks” which can cause the feet to bleed. Since you have four bunnies, if will definitely take them a bit of time to learn litterbox training, but they will not learn if the poop and pee just falls through the cage because you won’t be able to teach them. When you first set up the larger cage, I recommend using linoleum (which you can get at Home Depot) for the flooring. This is very easy to clean, and you can pick up the poops and pee very easily. Once you get a bigger cage you can also get a bigger litterbox, you definitely need at the least 2 large litterboxes for four rabbits. The one corner litterbox isn’t really enough for even one which is probably why you are seeing so much poop and pee fall through the grates. Once you have your cage set up, we can help you with the litter training, which for my bunnies did not take long to learn at all.

The other big concern I would have at this time is the diet, are you feeding unlimited hay?  A pellet mix is really only a supplement to timothy hay or another grass hay.  Four bunnies is a lot to feed so you’ll probably want to consider buying hay in bales and storing it in your garage.  You’ll need to find a feed store that has a good quality timothy hay (sometimes they call the high quality hay “horse quality”).  

I know it can be quite overwhelming to have 4 bunnies all at once, I found it overwhelming to have even my first bunny.  I would definitely say though that the order of priorities right now is to develop a cage that will work for you and your bunnies!  Let us know what other questions you have!

 

[Cake]

Welcome!
You could make a new NIC condo for the females and use the hutch you have now for the boy. Just put a piece of plywood over the grates (or even cardboard. Then get a bigger litter box. You should notice a huge improvement.

I thought I would share a picture of my cage. I made it myself and I think you could make one for the girls. (it’s easy and cheap!)

It’s so great that you decided to take them all in and give them a good life. I learned so much from this site. I know a lot of people use ex-pens too, so that might be a great option for you to start with. (Just to get them all space fast)

[sally]

That Looks fantastic!!! How would you go about making one of them and how much would it cost?? Also where do you get them from?

[Cake]

Well they are storage cubes from Target. You are in the UK right? I think someone may know where to get them there? (It cost me about $80-$100)

All I did was push them together with the connectors and then use zip ties to really make it firm. The floor is just plywood with linoleum. I’ve seen some that are so darn creative! (so much better than mine)

If you can’t find those what about the ex-pen idea? Here is what they look like…

http://cgi.ebay.com/42-Exercise-Pen-Dog-Crate-Cat-Cage-Kennel-w-8-Anchors_W0QQitemZ360142715780QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item53da2dbb84&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2%7C65%3A1%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1307%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50

[Cake]

oh sorry, you can just copy and paste that link or just look on eBay under dog exercise pen.

[MooBunnay]

Thank you for posting such a great example Cake Also, it is a very good example of what size litter boxes would be good for 4 bunnies – bunnies often are in their litterbox for awhile, and it also helps to put hay in the litter boxes because then they eat in there and poop at the same time. They usually do a good job of using one corner for the poops and then eating the rest of the hay. You can get those litter boxes very inexpensively at Target, or I have also gone to the Rubbermaid section and purchased these large plastic bins that are usually for storing things. Just make sure to get one that isn’t very tall or they won’t be able to hop in.

With 4 bunnies you will also go through a lot of litter. If you can find a place that carries wood stove pellets those make very inexpensive litter. Also, I have used something called “Equine Fresh” or “Lone Star Bedding” which is a similar product and much more inexpensive than other litters.

[bunnytowne]

Cake how did you get the sides onto the bunny floor there?  It surrounds their tile floor.  I gave up on xpens cuz I couldn’t find something big enuf to put for the flooring.

Besides I got a real big cage for Ruby and a nice one for Cotton./

[BinkyBunny]

How wonderful that you saved them!  You have received some great advice.  Also check out the cool habitats section where you will see examples of pens and cube cages that will offer more space https://binkybunny.com/BUNNYINFO…ault.aspx..

If you scroll down past the habitat gallery, you will see links that show you where you can get the “cubes” and how to put them together.

Bunnies poop while they eat so it’s a good idea to have a hay rack over the their litterbox.

I do like pens because they are so easy to clean – I use a wall mounted shopvac and it scoops up all the hay and poop like a charm (however, mine are now littertrained so there isn’t much poop anymore.   But cubes are great way to offer more room when your space may be limited.

I am assuming they are for sure either all the same sex or they are all altered? 

 

Also, someone asked about UK resources for the cubes:

• http://www.screwfix.com
• http://www.displaysense.co.uk
• Wikes Hardware Stores (in store)

[Cake]

There is a thick piece of plywood (I think it is the kind used for roofing) then I just glued on the lino. For the sides I nailed in molding I picked up from Lowe’s. Could I do it over I would have put two pieces of plywood together. With just the one I couldn’t use screws because it kept splitting. Of course that could be just because I got super cheap molding.

So I just used nails and it’s pretty strong. (I used a lot) Then to keep it off the floor I had bought casters, but decided to try floor movers for furniture. I got the really big puffy ones and put 6 on the bottom.

[jerseygirl]

Welcome Tango87! Sounds like you saved these 4 – thank you! That is a really nice hutch – you could easily adapt it to add more room. Perhaps a ramp down to an x – pen and leaving the door open would allow more room. Also, it appears there’s a bit of space underneath. You could almost pen that off to make up a separate cage for the male and allow him access to the x-pen when the females are not in it.

As Moo suggested, something like vinyl or choroplast could be put down over the wire floor to protect their feet. Personally, I would leave one small corner uncovered for them to toilet over since there is a catch tray and they’re already used to this. If they successfully use the one corner, then you could pop a litter tray there at a later date. If anything, solid flooring will save some of the feed!

One last thing….maybe a vet check to ensure you won’t be dealing with a surprise litter of babies?

*Another source for NIC grids that Elrohwen posted recently:  stores.shop.ebay.com/Pets-and-People-by-M-P

[Beka27]

Welcome here! Thank you for saving those bunnies from an awful fate. I hope we can help you figure some stuff out to make this go well.

First of all, like the others said, the cage is too small for 4 bunnies. Pet stores don’t sell adequate cages. They are tiny animals so people tend to think they don’t need much room, but they have very strong, back legs that they need to stretch out daily. The smallest size we recommend for one bun is 2×4 feet. Two buns would require a minimum of 4×4 feet (the size of one dog exercise pen). 4 buns would require 8×4 feet, or better yet: a good-sized *bunny-proofed* room.

I will also recommend that you take them to a rabbit-savvy vet for a check-up and to MAKE SURE they are the sexes you think they are. Baby buns are very difficult to sex, even experienced people can make a mistake. Males can impregnate females at a young age (3-4 months) so it’s important that you separate them right away. A vet will also be able to give you info about spaying and neutering. This is important to ensure long, healthy lives for all four.

[Tango87]

Thank all of you guys so much for the help! I feel so bad! I will get them in to a big cage ASAP. So then here’s my next question. I heard that bunnies CANNOT be in the sun because they will overheat and die. So would it not be a good idea to have their new cage next to a big window (Glass sliding door)? Will they be ok if it’s inside the house or will the sun still be too hot? Keep in mind I do live in Arizona.

One more question. So they need room to move but can I build a tall cage instead of a wide one? We don’t have a lot of space so would a long/ tall cage be appropriate? Kind of like the one in the pic that cake put in. BTW thanks cake!!

[jerseygirl]

Please don’t feel badly! Like said before, you and your partner are giving these rabbits a real chance. It’s more so if their current home was their long term one, then that would be not ideal and when the health issue really start.
Building vertically is a great solution. Some condos I’ve seen on this site are 5 storeys high. Another really clever idea I saw was building a multi storey L shaped one that fitted in a corner.
You do have to be wary of heat. They are more susceptible to the heat than the cool.

[Cake]

You’re welcome!

Yes, you can build them high. Just make sure you make a door for each level. (easy to clean and get to them when they don’t want to come out)

I have my bunny in front of a glass door. I’m in WI though and it’s not south facing. I imagine you have a/c so I think you might be able to work something out.

Again, you are awesome for taking these bunnies in so don’t feel bad! A few more days in a small cage won’t hurt them when they will have a lifetime of good care now

[MooBunnay]

Don’t feel bad – it is great that you are seeking out information to give your bunnies the best care possible. There is a lot of mis-information out there about bunnies, and it is very easy to get the wrong information, so do not feel bad.

Bunnies are most comfortable at around 80 degrees and lower, so you don’t want them getting heated up in direct sunlight. If some sun does shine on the cage that is OK, but they will need at least part of the cage to be in the shade so they can escape from the heat. A good way to provide some cool sections in the cage is to put some individual floor tiles around. My bunnies love to lie on these when it is hot because they are nice and cool.

It is definitely OK to build up instead of out. Since you let your bunnies out to have play time, they get the opportunity to run around and exercise, and if you build up on the cage that will give them adequate room to spread out and have plenty of space.

Let us know if you need any further help with the cage – they can be a really fun family project to put together

[ScooterandAnnette]

The last place we lived had no air conditioning and it could be pretty hot in the summer.  We would keep some reusable ice packs (the kind you can toss into a cooler) in the freezer and when it was too hot would put some in their cage.  If we wouldn’t be around for a while then we’d maybe loosely wrap it in a towel so they couldn’t chew on it.

Bunnies are fine with going up.  We have 2 sets that are bonded together but not with each other (if that makes sense) and now a single bunny that’s likely going to be put in with one of the sets shortly.  We had them in 2  4 x 4 Xpens but that was just taking up too much space in the room.  Last year we built a big condo for them – it’s divided down the middle so the 2 sets can’t get at each other and fight.  This one is  made from the cube grids, and is 2 deep, 6 wide and 4 high.  The divider is more or less equal except at the top level where the lefthand side has 4 grids and the right 2 (that side had more bunnies at the time). 

Just a word of caution though – I’ve noticed that bunnies that don’t normally get along together will be more or less okay when in a small, confined space likely just due to stress, but once they have some room to spread out things can be a little different.  We’ve tried bonding all the bunnies together and if they’re in a laundry basket, or the car, they’re just fine and will be right up against each other with no problem.  But put them on the floor and the fur flies.  Be prepared for the possibility that yours might only be tolerating each other because they’re a little stressed.   We’ve had 4 bunnies bonded together before so I know it’s entirely possible.  But when you’re constructing your habitat for them keep in  mind that you might have to find a way to divide it to keep them separate.  It’s easier to design it with that possibility in mind than trying to adjust it later.

– Annette

[Beka27]

The cool habitats section on the forum has great pics of all kinds of NIC condos, many of them are tall and narrow and that is fine as well. Most buns do enjoy having levels they can jump up and down. Let us know if you need any help with the construction aspect or if you have any other questions or concerns. And again, thanks so much for saving them. Having bunnies is definitely a learning process but you will get there.

[skunklionshow]

I would keep the hutch you have an build onto that.  It looks like a very nice hutch & would make a great base for additional levels.  I would definately add under the hutch & possible on the side to the floor.  I like the hutch’s roof, so I’d likely keep that as the top of my new bunny condo…maybe adding a little peep hole cut away thorough the roof, so they can poke out.  I built my rabbit condo by using Jessica’s original dog cage as a base.  I used wire cutters to cut through the roof and the side.  Now it’s a 3 level w/ a sleeping loft.  I’ve also built on the sides.  I keep 2 cat size litterboxes on their main floor.  The whole project was made w/ the wire grid cubes, zip ties, and her dog cage.

Getting them sexed by a rabbit savy vet is crucial!  In addition, you have to plan on getting hit really hard w/ paying for their speuters.  They all need to get fixed…it’s healthier for them & helps immensely w/ litterbox training.  I think your off to a great start.  Rabbits are very much a learning experience and I think many of us “ended up” rabbit people after getting hooked by a sad story or their cute little face.  I’ve learned so much from this site.  Ask us all anything, everyone is awesome here. 

[BinkyBunny]

You’ve received some great advice. Direct sunlight in only parts is okay, they would definitely overheat though if it got to be above 80 degrees. (note: some places that are normally hot, bunnies have somewhat acclimated but going above 80 on a regular bases is not advised)

Normally if you can keep it 70’s that would be closer to ideal, however, I know Arizona – hot even with the AC going. There is another section “cooling tips” under bunny info that may come in handy for you too.

[Author]

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