Muffin’s chin rash is back

[Moonlightbunny66]

Thought I would update you guys, and see if anyone has any similar experiences. This is the third time this “rash” has appeared. I think it’s from being wet so much (drinking water, eating greens). I chop up his veggies into small pieces and it seems to help, but the issue is back. I wrote an email to the vet and I’m waiting for a response.

Does anyone think a water bottle will help? I know they aren’t the best for hydration, but I’m trying to keep him dry.

I was told by the vet last time that he may need dental work in the future. I forget the specifics but it was something to do with his back teeth. The cost was almost $1000CAD. I posted about it and some people thought it was an above average price. :/ It didn’t seem too concerning at the time so I wouldn’t think that it would be the main cause of this.

We have treated it with Sulfatrim and Flamazine the last two times. I think this time we need to get some tests done. Does anyone have any thoughts or ideas as to what could be causing this?
Here are some photos from today. Seems like there’s pus, the same red scabbing, and fur loss again.

Going to make an appointment with the vet after I get a response email (I had a lot to say).

[Wick & Fable]

Hm, I have doubts that just a water bowl vs bottle problem would cause such severe irritation and scabbing. In terms of dental, unless you had xrays done, they most likely mean grinding down spikey portions of the back teeth that might be hurting your rabbits cheeks/tongue. Extra saliva is produced to lubricate and sooth those spurs, which leads to drooling and moisture on the mouth corners and chin.

If it is dental, you likely need to have the grinding done. Most rabbits can keep their spurs in check by eating hay, but sometimes intervention is needed. Sometimes it only needs to be done once, sometimes regularly. You just need to monitor.

My other thought is syphilis, which can cause rashes and crusting around the mouth and/or genetalia. There is a blood test to assess for the presence of syphilis antibodies you can ask for. Syphilis can come from birth (infected mother) or from contact with a rabbit who has syphilis. It can be asymptomatic for a long time.

The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.

[Moonlightbunny66]

Thank you Wick! I’ll ask them about syphilis.

If it is a dental problem, should I look into different vets for different pricing? And yes, I believe they were talking about Spurs on his back teeth. Thank you for explaining it! This is the estimate they gave me. I think I posted this photo before.

In the summer this year, I believe Muffin will be about 6 years old. Is this concerning for dental work?

[Wick & Fable]

Pricing can vary, so I would recommend looking at different places.

For this particular vet, I would ask if that hospitalization/ward care charge is applicable if your rabbit returns with you the day of the procedure. I mentioned before but it seems very high due to that hospital charge and the 300 for anesthesia related items. The anesthesia costs are… crazy.

The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.

[Moonlightbunny66]

Yeah I thought I remembered someone saying that about the ward care, thank you! I can ask about it when I’m there. I really don’t know about the anesthesia related costs. I can ask about those as well. I got an appointment for tomorrow, luckily.

[Moonlightbunny66]

Update: Just waiting for test results now. They said they would get them in a few days. They did a culture and skin impression. In the meantime, I was given some Sulfatrim again to help him right now. They said we will probably switch to a different antibiotic when they know what’s going on.

I asked about syphilis, they said it’s unlikely but they’re not totally ruling it out yet. They called their lab and they don’t do that test, so we’d have to figure out somewhere else to do it if we get to that point. They said his genitals are clear and so is his nose (the typical places for syphilis, she said).

I’m just hoping that we can find out what the issue is and help him.

[Wick & Fable]

Thanks for the update! Notably, there are abnormal presentations of syphilis where symptoms only occur around the mouth. My Wick actually was a case — he had no nose, eyes, or genital symptoms; just mouth! A test obviously means time and money so I think it’s good to keep it in the back while testing more likely options!

The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.

[Moonlightbunny66]

Thank you Wick! I think I remember some photos you showed me before. I’m sorry he went through that! ):  I’ll definitely keep it in mind if we don’t get much out of these tests.

Did it keep flaring up then going away with antibiotics like Muffin? Also, the vet said the treatment for syphilis would be penicillin shots. She said if it’s ingested it can be fatal. That makes me super nervous. ):

[Wick & Fable]

His syphilis symptoms would get mixed up with his ringworm, so it’s very possible that rather than ringworm coming back and forth every time, it was syphilis. We ended up testing for syphilis because the ringworm symptoms kept coming back but wouldn’t spread like it did originally.

Penicillin shots are done in the back area and are done with a needle, so while scary, itd be pretty hard to get the rabbit to ingest it since it’s in a needle form (so you probably arent going to be waving it around!) and the shot area is pretty out of their reach. A vet can definitely show you how to do a shot. It can definitely be nerve wracking, but most owners pick it up and are comfortable with it by the end!

The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.

[LBJ10]

Just looking at it, it does look kind of syphilis-y. But I agree, it may be more cost effective to see what the other tests say first.

[Moonlightbunny66]

Wick poor bunny was really going through it! 🙁 Thanks for the info, makes me feel a bit more confident.

LBJ10 Thank you. I’m looking at some photos of rabbit syphilis and other things, some similar to Muffins but not much diagnosed and cleared. I hope these tests will give us something we can treat and he won’t have to go through this anymore. ):

[DanaNM]

If you do have to do Penicillin shots, they honestly aren’t too bad (easier than syringe feeding in my book). The first time or two will be stressful but you’ll get the hang of it and the bun usually seems like they barely notice. I had to do them for a bun with a dental abscess, and freaked out the first time because I accidentally poked all the way through the skin and it ended up on his fur… so then I was frantically cleaning him 😯 …. but after that it was much easier.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Moonlightbunny66]

DanaNM Thanks 🥺 I would imagine they’d be squirmy! Surprising the bun even sat still. Glad he was okay! What did you clean him with? (Just in case anything like that happens…)

I read someone say that the penicillin shots don’t always work to clear things up if it’s only done once a week. They said they recommend every other day, but that’s not allowed in some countries? I don’t know if that’s true, but if we do ever have to do the shots I’ll speak to my vet a lot.

[Wick & Fable]

I would clean Wick with just a damp paper towel wipe and dry. The vet assistant gave us the wrong size needle, and I didn’t notice until later, so I kept struggling to plunge it (penicillin is slightly goopy, so it would clog the needle), thus leading to tiny spurts on his back when I’d try to test plunge before the shot.

I am not a vet nor doctor nor… any qualified professional in that regard, but I will say once a week is really spaced out. For Wick, we did 21 days straight of shots. We also suspected his syphilis might have been more resistant, so we did a separate oral medication as well. Wick had gotten penicillin shots every other day for a separate infection earlier in his life, so we already knew we needed a more aggressive treatment to treat it.

The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.

[DanaNM]

Yep, I just used a damp towel and dried him off. I also agree that once a week doesn’t sound right… I think I did shots every day for 6 weeks…? But that was for a dental abscess which is very hard to treat.

The bun was a very good sport about it, I would just pop him on the table so he wouldn’t run off. Since it’s in their scruff I don’t think they really notice it that much. He only seemed bothered by it towards the end when he started getting some scar tissue building up, which made it harder to get the needle in.

If you are very nervous, maybe you could practice with some lactated ringers? This is all of course assuming it’s even necessary!

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Moonlightbunny66]

Wick oh no!! Glad it turned out alright. Yeah, maybe it depends on how resistant the issue is to the penicillin. Thanks for the info!

DanaNM Aw that’s good they don’t really mind it. Yeah I’d probably need some practice first lol. And yeah just talking about it just in case I have to do it. :/ Thank you!

[DanaNM]

I just chatted with one of my friends at the rescue who said she was lurking on the forum and saw this thread. She even chatted with our vet about it and said this can def happen from drinking from a bowl and getting the chin too wet if the rabbit has a certain face shape. Syphilis was also an option, so if you rule that out then she said switching to a bottle should help a lot!

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Moonlightbunny66]

Thank you DanaNM! He has a big squishy round face (super cute). That’s really nice that your friend spoke to the vet about it. 💜 You can thank them for me if you’d like! I’m still waiting for these test results, so I’ll see what comes out of it and switch to a bottle if needed! Thanks. 💜

[Moonlightbunny66]

So we got some results back and they said the Sulfatrim should clear it up and we asked to get 7 more days worth of it to add onto the 7 days we got to try to make sure it’s totally gone. I asked about the water bottle and they said it’s worth a try so we can eliminate the water bowls being an issue (his chin getting wet). Any suggestions on water bottles that don’t build up as much bacteria (easy to clean as well)? And that will make sure they don’t get dehydrated? Thank you.

[Moonlightbunny66]

Also- waiting for an email to get the written name of what they saw. It’s a long word I’ve never heard so I’ll post it here when I get it so you guys know lol.

[Moonlightbunny66]

Reading so many bad reviews for every water bottle I click on. Either leaks too much or the water is too hard to get out… ):

[DanaNM]

I would just try getting a few bottles and putting them all up in multiple places to encourage drinking. I think they are all bound to leak a bit when you fist put it up, I have mine up over a bowl so it leaks into the bowl. Maybe you could also offer a bowl a few times during the day and just dry his chin off afterwards?

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Moonlightbunny66]

Thank you DanaNM. What is your bottle called? Does it work well? I’ve tried drying his chin off before but it will always be damp. ):

[DanaNM]

Mine is the “LIXIT” brand. I got it ages ago, don’t remember what store! It seems to work fine, it will usually leak a bit when I first refill it up doesn’t drain itself or anything. I always check the ball bearing to make sure it isn’t stuck as well.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Moonlightbunny66]

Thank you!! Do you give them a full water dish too or are they able to stay hydrated with the bottle?

[DanaNM]

Well…. I have a water dish too. Recently when I was trying to bond the quad I just had a bottle and I felt like BJ wasn’t drinking much (I put the bowl down and he immediately drank a ton). But that could be the combo of the stressful situation and no time to adjust to it. The other three buns did drink from the bottle though, so it could just be that he’s a cranky old man that’s set in his ways.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Moonlightbunny66]

Staphylococcus aureus is the name of what they found in the culture. The vet said the Sulfatrim should be able to get rid of it. It’s already pretty cleared up but we’re giving it to him for another 7 days to try to make sure it’s all gone. :/ Hopefully it works.

[Moonlightbunny66]

@DanaNM I don’t think I have a full dose left for tomorrow. :/ The rest of the Sulfatrim is supposed to arrive tomorrow or the next day. I have a little bit left in each of the bottles and he’s on 2ml morning and night (every 12 hours). Should I give him half of what I have left in the morning then the rest at night? I was thinking that would keep it in his system. :/

[DanaNM]

Hmmmm I’m not sure, but my instinct is saying that giving a half dose wouldn’t be good… maybe give whatever you have left (up to the dose needed) and call the vet in the morning?

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Moonlightbunny66]

Thanks DanaNM! I was about to call but we got a knock at the door and got the rest of the meds!! 😀

[DanaNM]

Yay!

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

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