Mounting and chasing

[Moonlightbunny66]

Went to the vet yesterday, the vet said Pinky is a girl. She said she had several people check and they all said it was girl parts and did not see a penis. The vet said Pinky could be in heat and that’s why his/her poops are messed up. But his poops have been like this since I got him.

I’m waiting for an email back from the animal shelter I got him from to get the surgery records for his “neuter”. Of course I’ll still love him and keep him if he’s a girl but now I’m not sure what to do in terms of bonding because of the things that are happening today…

I was downstairs and heard the rabbits running around and when I came upstairs they were both laying down and Muffin was breathing fast so I thought they were just running and doing binkys. Then a few minutes later, Muffin mounted Pinky and Pinky ran away so Muffin kept chasing him. Pinky has mounted Muffin twice that I’ve seen during their bond, but it did not lead to chasing or fighting. Muffin then layed down next to Pinky and pressed his head against his face (I think asking for forgiveness?). I know mounting can be dominant behaviour, but now that we’re questioning if Pinky is a girl, I’m not sure if that’s the case for today.

I got the pellets for their breakfast and then Muffin started chasing Pinky again. They usually circle each other and chase a little because they’re excited but not in a threatening way, Pinky looked scared during this one.

The vet asked if Muffin had showed any interest in Pinky and I said no because I never saw him mounting Pinky before, until today.

While I’m waiting for the email back, should I separate them? Or maybe just separate them at night? They’ve been so lovey during their bond, they never fought during their bond until this chasing today (and one nose bite before the bonding process).

Could it just be from the stress of the vet yesterday? When they came home they were good and just ate hay and cuddled. I don’t know what changed from yesterday to today that is causing this behaviour.

Also, Pinky has been to the vet multiple times and we were never told that he is a girl… They have called him a she before but usually correct themselves to he (I think because of his name). Yesterday I corrected the vet when she said she but then she said that she checked him and said he’s a girl. Can they tuck their penis away to hide it? Or was that the balls? I remember reading it somewhere but I can’t remember specifically. Just gotta wait to see if we can get the surgery records to confirm whether he’s a male or female…

[Moonlightbunny66]

I’m also wondering if I’m going to need to rebond them or if this will pass and Pinky is just a girl in heat?? Muffin is still grooming Pinky and they’re eating together. They were cuddling and grooming early this morning before the chasing.

[DanaNM]

Ok don’t panic!

Males can suck their testicles up inside them when they are stressed out. It is also not uncommon for even experienced people to mis-sex rabbits. There can also be intersex rabbits that are VERY hard to tell until you check for internal anatomy (we had a bun at the rescue that was very hard to tell externally, and internally she had a uterus and 1 testicle!). I would probably trust the rescue over the vet unless they fail to provide his neuter records… then of course you would want to book her in for a spay.

Vet visits can definitely disrupt bunny bonds, so that is a likely explanation. Sometimes one bun picks up a weird smell at the vet and it confuses them. Occasionally bonded pairs will also have little hiccups, especially early in the relationship. If they didn’t actually fight (which I don’t think they did?), I would just monitor them for a couple days. You could do some bonding sessions in a neutral space to re-solidify things.

Second, I have never heard of or seen a rabbit in heat having weird poops like Pinky’s.

If Pinky is female, that would also explain the chasing etc. You might be able to get Pinky spayed without having the bond disrupted, you would just need to monitor very closely and separate at any signs of aggression. But to me the vet visit seems like a more likely explanation for the mounting/chasing.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Moonlightbunny66]

Thank you DanaNM. Yeah, maybe it was the vet visit. :/ It seems like they’re doing better now, so I probably won’t separate them tonight.
I assume Pinky had a surgery, whether it was a spay or neuter. The shelter told me they took them both to get neutered and they were recovering well. I paid for the adoption fee for two neutered rabbits.

The vet said specifically it looked like Pinky has a vagina. Maybe they mis-sexed but I’m hoping we can get the records soon. Then I can have the details of the surgery. This was all so shocking to me… I’ve had him since August last year and always believed he was male. Strange situation but I’ll always love my Pinky!

That’s interesting about the rescue bunny. Maybe Pinky just has confusing parts as well? Did the rabbit get an ultrasound or something? And did the rabbit get spayed or neutered?

Thanks!

[Moonlightbunny66]

(The reason I mention the adoption fee is because it’s like $25 for a rabbit that’s not spayed/neutered and $100 for one who is, so I paid $200 because they were both neutered.)

[DanaNM]

There is more variation than you might think with how rabbit genitalia look. Vaginas can look like penises… and vice versa. For example, my Myra was actually sexed as a neutered male by the rescue when she was found… then she had babies the next day! So it really can be hard to tell when there are no testicles as the give-away. The intersex bunny in question was taken in for a spay because they were fairly certain she was female, but there was some debate over it. Then they confirmed that she was intersex during the spay surgery (they just removed all the reproductive parts).

If the rescue specifically said that Pinky was recovering from surgery then my money is on the vet mis-sexing him! I doubt they would lie about something like that, unless it was an error on their part.

 

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Moonlightbunny66]

Thank you DanaNM! Yeah that sounds super confusing. Thanks for the info.

Muffin just started chasing Pinky again (might’ve mounted him, I didn’t see) so I think I’ll divide my room in half and separate them for now. Do you think this is a good idea?
Should I do bonding sessions again? Or wait to see if Pinky is a girl? I don’t know what to do… I just don’t want them chasing or mounting.

[Moonlightbunny66]

I just locked Pinky in the pen and gave Muffin a litter box and water bowl. Maybe they’ll cool off after today and forget about it? ):

[DanaNM]

I think a little cooling off wouldn’t hurt, especially since you are waiting to get some answers. If Pinky is in-fact an unspayed female, better to separate before things escalate to fighting. As long as they are near each other they won’t forget each other.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Moonlightbunny66]

Thank you DanaNM. That makes me feel better. I think separating is the best I can do right now, because I don’t want them to start having negative feelings with each other.

It’s strange that this never happened until today. It’s not like Muffin understood what the vet was saying yesterday and is now trying to mate with Pinky. I wasn’t in the vet (because of covid rules) so I don’t know if something happened in there that made them irritated at each other. We got home late afternoon and there weren’t any negative  behaviours between them until this morning (that I know of).

[Moonlightbunny66]

I got an email from the shelter and they said Pinky had testicles before he was neutered. They didn’t give me the records but they gave me that info. They also said they don’t do spays because of how invasive it is. But doesn’t it prevent uterine cancer? (I said the same thing in my email to the vet).

Waiting for an email back from my vet to see if they’re satisfied with that response lol.

I let Pinky out of the pen today so they can be together and they’ve been grooming and snuggling a lot. A bit of chasing from Muffin but then he layed down and Pinky stuck his head under him then groomed Muffin. It seems like it’s a dominance thing going on. I’m think maybe Muffin caught a weird smell off Pinky from the vet the day after we got home and then wanted to establish his dominance over him. He’s been giving Pinky some nips on his back as well but I think he thought I was giving Pinky treats and not him because they were excited. Sometimes Pinky thinks Muffin is chasing him though and he runs (maybe Muffin was planning something).

Should I let them work it out in my room or bring them back to their bonding session areas? I plan on watching them today then maybe separating them again at night.

Also, Muffin was chinning things in the pen when I let them go into each other’s areas (if that gives any more info).

[DanaNM]

It could be that the rescue just doesn’t have access to a vet they are confident in. As important as spaying is, if the vet isn’t good, then it can be dangerous for sure. If they say he had testicles, I believe them! The one way I could see them making an error like that is if they mixed up rabbit’s records? But didn’t you have to give Pinky post-neuter care?

Sometimes I think with really smooth bonds, there can be some hiccups later, and some mounting can happen even in bonded pairs. For example, Bonnie occasionally tries to mount Cooper now that they are bonded, but she showed no interest in this when they were actually bonding.

I think since it’s been going on a couple days now, I would work with them in a neutral space if you can. They might just need a day or so in a neutral spot to sort themselves out again.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Moonlightbunny66]

Thank you DanaNM. I also believe the rescue, maybe the next time he goes to the vet they’ll be able to take a look again. Yeah, I took him home a few days after he was neutered.

It’s the same with my buns! They didn’t do any mounting during bonding. Barely even any negative behaviours. Only maybe one dominance nip on Pinky’s fur from Muffin. Pinky has mounted Muffin twice since living together, like a month or two after being bonded. Muffin steps away and is fine, but when Muffin now does it to Pinky, Pinky is not happy!

They’ve been doing better since this morning, because it’s their sleep time. I’ll see how they are later in the day. But yeah I’ll probably do a bonding session, but I don’t want to cause more problems if it was the stress of the vet or a weird smell that caused this.

[DanaNM]

One last thought is that some bunnies get a bit moody and hormonal during spring time, even when neutered/spayed, so that could be factoring in as well.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

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