More Problems with Mimzy

[MimzMum]

So this morning, about 8 hours after his 4th dose of chloramphenicol, Mimzy had another bout of gas, (happened the same way last night), stomach taut and blown up like a balloon and causing him enough discomfort that he bit the end almost clean off the simethicone bottle dropper. I was lucky to even get him to let me hold him, he kept trying to jump out of my grasp and wouldn’t open his mouth.

Half an hour later and a tummy rub, he’s doing okay now. But we also dribbled Pen-G  on his back again (I’m hoping I got it all mopped up, but I can still smell it for some reason) and I am just frazzled beyond belief. NOTHING is going right with all this and I am angry as hell.

Called the vet and she’s sending some Reglan home with my hubby, but I have to give Mimzy his first dose of chloramphenicol now, so in eight hours, he’s going to be uncomfortable again (if it’s not affecting him sooner).

Can someone please tell me if you’ve ever had this happen with your bun? What good is the Reglan going to do for gas? I know it’s a gut motility drug, so how does it counteraffect the chloramphenicol’s side effects? He’s still eating only minimally and not many poos again last night, although he did pee. But his water consumption is down again too.

I’m really worried. I’m afraid these two antibiotics are going to wind up killing him. She’s insisting I keep them up though, because although the radiologist (she said he was professional) claims there isn’t any abscess around that tooth, she believes there is.

I need reassurance. I don’t like doing things that hurt my bunny.

[Sarita]

I’ve never had gas problems with my rabbits taking antibiotics. Are you certain it is gas?

Pen-g can certainly decrease the appetite – how long are you giving him this?

Reglan should help get his gut moving again. I don’t see how it would affect any of the antibiotics.

Are you still doing the metacam?

[MimzMum]

His stomach gets tight like a blown up balloon. I can’t shift it. Until I give him simethicone, then about 30 minutes to an hour later, he is more relaxed and the tummy is palpable again.
I was going to drop the metacam today. He was eating hay and drinking water last night before bed, so there isn’t much actual mouth pain from what I can see. But still he’s just taking in so precious little food that I’m only getting a handful of small poos each day, instead of his random bb’s all over his pen.
He did really well on the Pen-G last time he had it. I’m certain it’s the new antibiotic. He gives me a fight when I try to give him anything by mouth now, whereas he was more cooperative before. I’m even trying to stick to his left side, so I don’t disturb the affected tooth area.

I have to go give him the dose now, but by the next one I should have the Reglan here and hopefully it will make a difference.

[Sarita]

Hopefully the reglan will help too. This may be oral too – they have oral or injections so I’m not sure what your vet is giving you. You’ll have to do it twice a day. I do imagine the combination of drugs is causing his stomach to be upset.

How long are you doing both of them?

[MimzMum]

The chloramphenicol is a 14 day regimen, once every twelve hours. The Pen-G I had a total of 7 syringes, one for every three days and we just gave him #2.
The Reglan will be oral, she told me that.
She also said if he’s not really eating and eliminating in the next day or so that we have to bring him back in, which of course I will do gladly, but I just am so frustrated right now. >.<
Couldn’t just the Pen-G be enough to kill this abscess or whatever it is? Why the two antibiotics?

[Sarita]

I would ask the vet why 2 antibiotics.

[Sarita]

I’m sure it’s because they work in different ways though.

[MimzMum]

Maybe it’s just the way they interact with the Metacam or something. I decided to quit that because he was such a slug all day from the painkiller, he wasn’t eating or doing anything. That’s fine for the first day or so, but I think he can do without it now.

[Sarita]

Well metacam is an anti-inflammatory not an opiate drug. Usually for the first day after a dental or maybe two, they are going to be kind of sluggish. But I imagine the whole thing made him tired. It’s always stressful going to the vet.

[MimzMum]

Stressful for the humans too! 0_0 A little classical music should soothe the both of us. *turns on radio*
Poor little guy, he pulled his head back as I finished syringing the antibiotic and it poked him in the nose. Now his nose looks runny. I hope he didn’t suck any of that up there.
He’s mad at me. Won’t even let me dab at him with a tissue. ~_~

Well…another long day and night of trying to hand feed him to encourage him to eat. I do think he’s feeling better after having those teeth taken care of though…up till this morning I’ve hardly heard a sneeze out of him. (Not that this couldn’t be due to the meds, but I’m SO hoping we nipped the overall problem!)

[RabbitPam]

I think that is a good idea and will probably help. I’m sure he’s fighting the mouth treatments because any attempt to go near his mouth, even his good side, he’s already learned may lead to pain so he’s resistant.

Try to give him his dosages and go away from it for a while. Let him alone to rest, eat, poo and then see how he’s doing in a few hours. It all sounds like he has a condition that is continuing to need treatment, will take its own sweet time to heal, and he’s coping pretty well considering. Your vet wouldn’t use two anti-biotics if she believed he’d come to harm as a result. She’s clearly trying to get rid of this lasting problem with an effective assault. I kind of like the sound of her actually.

You can always keep this idea in your back pocket: you can write to Dana Kempel or ask BB if Dr. Harvey consults via email and maybe get another take on the situation. I would have them read your links here. But give it a few more days. You sound like you need some rest yourself.

[Sarita]

Not many of my rabbits tolerate medication either. I give Maxine metacam daily and she always pulls her head away but once I stick the syringe in her mouth, she takes it easily.

You are doing a great job taking care of him, but you need to take care of yourself as well. I bet you both could use a little rest.

[Monkeybun]

Aww poor MM and Mimzy.. it does sound like a rough time! Hopefully it works and takes care of the issue permanently, and the new stuff helps his tummy. *hugs and raisins from me and M&M*

[MimzMum]

Hubby just got home with the Reglan, I think I’ll give Mimzy a rest for an hour or so, then I can dose him about 4 PM and the other 8 hour doses will hit about 12 and 8 AM…otherwise I’ll be up at 3 or 4 AM trying to get him to open his mouth. Not good times for either of us.

Should he still have simethicone? I think the doc said that and Reglan can be used together.

[jerseygirl]

No wonder you’re frazzled! (((Vibees for you both)))

As far as I know, simethi doesn’t interact with meds. I’d only use it again though if he get’s gassy just to avoid having to syringe another thing into his mouth. He’ll forgive you MM, when he’s feeling better.

[MimzMum]

Thanks Jerz. >.< The nice thing is, he's giving me more grooms. I've never been groomed so much by any creature in my life. Not even my cats wash me this much!

The Reglan won’t hurt him, will it? If he’s already getting moving? I still don’t see any poos in the box, but he has peed. And he did eat some hay and drank some water about an hour ago.

I remember when my son was a baby…three months he had colic. We gave him something that looks like Reglan called Levsin to calm his stomach and bowels. He would be screaming like a banshee without it. But once that was in him…happy baby. I think he still wishes he had it today, he’s always complaining about stomach problems. lol….

[MimzMum]

Sorry one more question…does he still need the probiotic if he’s taking the Reglan?

Just gave it to him, btw…boy he didn’t like that either.

[wendyzski]

Yes – the probiotic will keep his gut flora replenished – the antibiotic could kill them off and that would be REAL tummy problems.

[Cassi&Charlie]

((((Mimz))))! I hope the classical music has helped defrazzle you both. (((Hugs)))

[MimzMum]

Wendyzski, I was just reading about that…clostridium infection…could that be why he’s having such bad gas problems?
Can I give it to him now? I just gave him the Reglan. They won’t interact will they?
And I’m guessing since I am still seeing food go in and some poos come out that he doesn’t have a blockage? My doc wouldn’t have given me the Reglan if she thought there was one, I’m sure.

[MimzMum]

Hey guys…Mimz hasn’t really eaten much of anything since his dose this afternoon at about 1PM (he had a green leaf of lettuce and some carrot slivers) so should I syringe him some soaked pellets? I put some (really liquid) in a small bowl, but I don’t think he’s eating them. Although I saw him chewing something a few minutes ago…I’m guessing whatever cecals he’s producing, if any.
He took one solid pellet from my hand a little bit ago, has taken very few strands of hay and has left about 5-8 poos since I cleaned him up this morning/afternoon. His tummy is not distended, but I’m worried. What say you?
He’s got another dose of the chloramphenicol coming up at midnight, and I may give him more Reglan at that time or some simethicone. Opinions?

[MimzMum]

Spamming my own thread here, but I hope someone’s online to answer today…
Okay, Mimzy passed the night without any gas episodes…so maybe it was the metacam that was bothering him?
Or I could’ve messed up with the probiotics. Who knows? I’m so sleep deprived right now it’s not funny. I was up all night every hour, then napping, then up and feeling his abdomen to make sure he wasn’t bloated.
He ate a bit of hay this morning at about 6 (oh yeah, left another pile of poos at about 2 or 3 AM also) and seems to be resting comfortably right now. I’ve got a call in to the vet to see how long I have to give him the Reglan, he only had one dose yesterday.

I gave up and handed him a few pellets last night, since he wouldn’t try the liquefied ones. He ate them, but you can see chewing is still dicey. He also has had the equivalent of one Oxbow veggie cookie in the last twelve hours. I see that he likes having the garden treats (sold at BB.com) and they will often get him to try his hay when hand feeding has failed. (He’s really turning it down more often, but like I said, he ate about a small handful this morning.)
So he has appetite, it’s like he’s being picky now. >.<
He also had some green leaf lettuce again last night and carrot slivers and he took those down quickly. I give those to him to keep his tummy happy before I administer the chloramphenicol.

Soo…if he’s eating and pooping (even if it’s only once or twice within the 24 hour period and only small amounts) will he need to keep taking the Reglan? I got spooked when I read about blockages and how this medicine will cause more trouble than good if your bunny has one. Also can he take it right after eating or will that push his food through too fast for him to get nourishment from it? Can Reglan and Chloramphenicol be given at the same time?

Add to this, my 9 year old male cat is having trouble peeing and keeps going to the litter box and getting a small amount out each time. So now I have to worry about him too. >_< This is not going to be my week, I can see that right now.

[Sarita]

Unless I’ve been specifically told by the vet not to give a medication together, then I give it all at once and I don’t worry about it. They usually will say on the prescription and when they give you the medication.

More likely the chloramphenical and pen-g cause stomach upset than the metacam.

I would not worry about giving the reglan and blockage since Mimzy doesn’t have a blockage. I usually do this for the first 2 to 3 days after Pepe’s dental along with the metacam. I just give mine once in the morning and once at night.

He’s eating something and that’s important. I say for now give him what he wants to eat and once he gets back to normal then you can look at his diet.

More likely he needs to get into his regular routine again more than anything including giving the medication at the same time as part of that routine for now.

[MimzMum]

Thank you, Sarita. You’re very kind. I know I’m being a pest, but with the vet so far away and the hubby already on my case for worrying too much about what he probably considers just ‘dumb animals’, I am a little short on my own sane judgment right now.

I was just so glad to see Mimzy eat on his own. And then to see he was eliminating as well. I think I found a sharp spot on his water bottle, so that may be why he wasn’t using it as much, but I did see him drink from it this morning. I’m going to switch it out though. He has a crock to use as well.

One of the benefits of all this is that I found Fiver and Pip will also drink from crocks and they seem to like it. It’s quite nice.

Mimzy just had some green leaf and his antibiotic. Boy he hates that stuff. I can’t recall if the vet said not to give the two drugs at the same time, but I don’t think she did. She just said the Reglan could be given more frequently, so I tried to set the timing so I wouldn’t have to be up at four in the morning or something to give a third dose if he needed it. Twice a day is probably enough though, I think. Don’t want him to start cramping and I can imagine that must be what this stuff does. And I also don’t want to have to peel his lips back a lot during the day since that irritates him. He hates the syringe now with a passion.

The only time I got sleep was when I saw that he was comfortable or was eating/drinking. It was way too hot in the house again last night, so that may have been why he had no appetite. I had to set up my ionizer fan to move the air in here. Once we cooled back down to around the mid 70’s he was more lively all around. But it was 81 degrees in the bunny room last night.

[Sarita]

From what I understand about the chloremphenicol is it is extremely bitter and has an awful taste so it’s no surprise he does not like this.

I usually just do the reglan twice a day. I would say if you continue to see him eat and poop then you don’t need to do the reglan any longer.
It will be a good thing to have on hand. I believe it’s used for heartburn for humans or something like that. I’m not sure if it actually gives you cramps or not it just gets the gut moving.

[MimzMum]

Bitter? Oh my poor bun! I’ll be sure to add a little treat of rose petal afterwards, to help take the taste out. >.<
I had to take an AB once during my chemo that was in capsule form, but that didn’t stop it from smelling like rotten eggs. It was horrible. You’d think with all the advancements in medicine, they could make them all taste like chocolate cake or something. And carrot cake for the bunnies. ^_^
I got his Reglan in him too. That stuff is sticky and he’s got a little bit still matted in his face fur from the first dose. Even a warm washcloth doesn’t take it out. I thought at first he was drooling or something was coming from the bad tooth area, but it’s just the leftover Reglan.

Thanks again, Sarita. I really appreciate your help.

[Sarita]

I’m sure he hated you washing his face LOL.

[jerseygirl]

Hi MM. I’m wondering if you should try the steamed/fluffed pellets in a shallow bowl and maybe some regular ones in a different bowl. See what he goes for. I wouldn’t think a blockage is an issue either. He’s probably not got alot in his system hence not producing much poop.

[MimzMum]

Well, he does now. ~_~ But honestly, he is really good about me coming at his face with things like tissues because for so long I had to wipe his nose on occasion, or help him get dried goobers out of his fur. When I’m sitting with him and he’s giving cuddles, he loves nothing more than for me to brush or clean his fur for him…like when we’ve spilled the Pen-G twice on him this time around. At first he’s like, “Why am I wet?” and then he’ll just tuck in and tooth purr or groom the blanket in front of his face. it’s very sweet.
This illness is bringing us closer in this way. He’s getting all the attention he can handle now…lol.

BTW, I haven’t seen any solid or opaque discharge from his nose since the dental. I am getting excited to think that may be overwith finally!

[MimzMum]

Jerz, I was thinking about that. I just gave him about 8 pellets to nom and he took them straight down. I turned my back and they were gone. I’m thinking if the Metacam didn’t upset his tum, and it’s not the AB apparently, since he’s fine right now…no more gas…then maybe it was my pellet slurry. I put some Mott’s granny smith applesauce in it (just a little bit, but he’s never had it before) and our bananas are kind of mealy right now since they’re out of season, basically…so perhaps the two fruits were just too much, and then of course it was after he hadn’t eaten much from the stasis and being in surgery that day, so his little tum must’ve just ballooned. He ate an awful lot of the slurry for not having had pellets for over a week, so I probably overdid him and I’m just lucky it finally all went through.

I feel bad, because I wasn’t paying attention before when I didn’t wash his water bottles out thoroughly either, right before the stasis episode…and between this and Mr Fishy passing away so suddenly (probably due to more error on my part since he’d just had his tank cleaned by me)…well yeah, I’m a little sensitive and thinking I need to over-think a few things from now on before I do them.

It’s funny, I put some classical music on last night (one of those nice soothing CD’s you get from Starbucks full of Brahms and Debussy) and he mellowed, but still seemed tense. So later I tried some Tai Chi music and he REALLY relaxed. lol…My bunny seems to prefer meditational music, just like his mum! ^_^ I’ll have to post that in the ‘hip to a groove’ thread.

[jerseygirl]

That’s good he ate the pellets. It’d probably that mush is so foreign to him that he may have been fussy about it. MM, you’re WAY to hard on yourself! My guess is that his slowdown and gas bout was more to do with plain old stress from going to the vet + the procedure. It had to be done though. Hope you get some restorative sleep soon.

[BinkyBunny]

 Mimz – I’m sorry for your lack of sleep with all of this stress.    After the loss of Shimmer, Mimz post surgery care and now your cat.  Big Hugs to you.  

I agree with Jersey, I think you are also very hard on yourself.  Hopefully the meditation music can help both you and Mimz. (deep breath…”ohmmmm”

 I know this is scary though (I know first hand how much easier it is to say relax than to actually do it)  but Mimz really is in good hands with you, and it sounds like he is coming around with his appetite, plus your vet sounds like she is now really on top of things.  She seems willing to answer questions over the phone ?? so if you do need confirmation on things, it may actually be better to confirm some of the things  as  we may offer only an educated guess, or give you our own experience which may not be suited for your situation. I mean you really are in touch with what is happening hour by hour, and so when you ask your vet something, she may have important questions in response to your question that then may help guide her to the best answer for your situation.  So though we are here to help, I think anytime something is post anethesia/surgery etc, that having a vet’s advice is important. 

 

You had mentioned the heat in your house -81 degrees is warm warm. How in the world do you stand that? I can’t stand it when it reaches over 72 degrees.  It’s obviously been something that your bunnies are used to and have adapted to, but have you noticed any issues with them when it gets this warm?  IF so, I know that Jack likes to lay on large ceramic tiles to cool off even when it’s not that hot, so it might be a simple solution to helping them find a way to cool off even when your house gets warmer than you’d like. 

 

Continued healing vibes for Mimz and peace and SLEEP vibes for you.  Hugs.

 

 

 

EDITED some kooky typos!

[RabbitPam]

I just want to say that Mimzy sounds like he’s showing improvement daily.

{{{{{{{{{{Healing vibes, sleepy ones, to you both}}}}}}}}}}}}

[MimzMum]

Thanks everyone for your well wishes and opinions. Yes, we did talk to the vet again yesterday and she wants to continue the Reglan even for a few days after his appetite and eliminations return to normal, just in case. If he doesn’t seem to have much interest in food still within the week, as per her instructions we’ll take him back for a well-check and weight and she’ll decide if anything further needs to be done.
I was saddened last night to hear him sneezing again, but I believe it must have been from the pellets I strewed at a rate of about 5 at a time in his cage yesterday for three or four meals. Today there were quite a few left that he did not eat. He is still not entirely comfortable on that side with the bad tooth and I think chewing anything even as hard as a pellet causes it to flare painfully into his sinus and so he reacted. Today he is more interested in his hay and greens, so we’ll stick with those for now. This is good because I wanted to see him eat more hay.
Not a great deal of poos yesterday and this morning, plus he’s not drinking as much water (the greens are maybe making up for it?) and so little pee also…but his tummy is no longer tight and he seems much more relaxed, even if the mouth is sore still. It must take some time to get used to your teeth meeting differently than they have been for the last year or so. I know when I have a crown done, if the doc doesn’t get the bite just right, it’s agony to even think of eating anything, much less doing it. So he may have quite an adjustment period, depending on how long it takes the molars to re-acclimate.
Too bad he can’t drink milkshakes…that’s what I do when my teeth hurt.
I was just glad to get about 6 straight hours of sleep last night. My whole constitution is about as wiped as it can get right now without collapsing.

BB, the heat is something they have gotten used to, but now it is coupled with stuffiness as the door separating the three cats from each other doesn’t allow for good air flow in here anymore. So we’ve taken to wearing sweaters if we’re cold and turning the boiler down to 69, which keeps the bun room at around 76-78…plenty warm enough for them. If it goes lower, we get the cold draft from the window and that will get all the bunnies sneezing. But yeah, having lived in the Bay Area all my life and used to having a cool breeze coming off the water, plus that lovely blanket of fog that both insulates and cools whenever it got hot in summer, I can’t handle temps much higher than 75. So….
Fifteen years of being here, plus being almost 50, I don’t deal well with even a little cold though. So luckily I keep a large stock of fluffy socks and light sweaters and jackets handy. ^_^ Plus I collect hats and caps…many of them with fleece bunny ears hanging from them.

So onward and forward we go. With any luck, things will mellow out now. Thank you all again for being here, I would be lost without you, professional advice notwithstanding. ((((((((((((hugs))))))))))))))))

[BinkyBunny]

Mimz – I know what you mean. Growing up in Alaska, it seemed our house was difficult to regulate in the winter. I remember being more cold though than hot, but that could be because my parents preferred to keep it so cold and just told us to get closer to the Ben Franklin Stove downstairs or the upstairs fireplace. I do remember even very well insulated windows were just COLD and of course the cold would carry over into the house from them. Isn’t is something like -30 degrees below zero F, there right now -25 earlier today. (My brother who lives in North Pole Alaska told me this when I talked to him on the phone today) I have no desire to revisit that cold weather, but I think because I grew up there, I can’t tolerate heat even now. I will need to look for a hat that has hanging down bunny ears! How cute is that! I can even get cold here, as the older homes, from 1920’s, don’t have good insulation so they can get hot and cold (not as extreme as your area though!)

Okay, so back to Mimz. if he is eating more greens, then you are right, that may be the reason he is drinking less water. It may just be easier for him to eat the hay and greens and so that is why is ignoring the pellets, but hay and greens….GOOD! And it sounds like his digestive system is not bloated. Now that he is eating, you should start seeing more poos. I bet tomorrow that part will have picked up the pace. He may not be peeing out because he could have been a little bit dehydrated, but pretty soon you should start to see that happening as well. If not, then I would ring your vet and give her an update about that…Hopefully he won’t continue to sneeze. When is the follow-up appointment?

I’m sending continued healing and mellow vibes.

[MimzMum]

Thank you BB.
Yeah, the layout of this house is rather stupid, if I might say so. I bought this sight unseen (well the hubby came up and saw it and we made the deal over the phone basically) and it wasn’t until we spent some time here that we realized the wiring was all wrong and the plumbing was way out of date and so on… The people who lived in it before us had built it themselves and there weren’t very strict codes here at the time. We originally had only 758 square feet of living space, but he dry walled the garage and added it to the house. It still holds heat like a concrete garage though, even with insulation and carpet (albeit remnants).
I entered us in the Extreme Home Makeover 50 states thing a few years ago, but they picked the house in North Pole with all the adopted kids in it. ^_^ It would be great to demo this place and build something nicer here, the thought has crossed my mind more than once. ^_^

Anyway, yes it’s good to see him eat the greens, but it tends to fill him up and then he doesn’t want his hay. So it’s a delicate balance.
He is making poos, just not consistent sized or quality.
No real sneezing today and no pellets. (I haven’t offered any.) So I really think they are connected.

He’s not supposed to go back to see her for 6-8 weeks for the teeth, but she wanted to see him in a week if he wasn’t eating or eliminating properly yet. I keep in touch, so she’ll tell me if I’ve brought anything up that needs further examination I am sure.
The Reglan has really saved us. I did have to administer a little simethicone last night, but it helped right away and he had no further trouble. I actually got sleep! ^_^ (never enough though…lol)

I got the bunny ear hat at Etsy.com. There’s a gal there that makes all sorts of cute fleece hats with animal ears on them. Did you ever go to the Comic Shop up here when you lived in Fairbanks? All anime and Japanese stuff and card gaming, etc. I pick up quite a few goofy hats there too.

[BinkyBunny]

I don’t remember a comic shop in Fairbanks…but I also wasn’t looking, but back then there wasn’t much there as far as shopping, so you’d think I’d remember a comic shop. Where’s it located? My brother and sister-in-law just sent me the most delicious chocolates though! I can’t remember the name…but something like the candy pot, or the chocolate pot, or cookie pot?? VERY rich and yummy.

Okay, back again to the topic… Greens are probably just the easiest to eat, (they are good fiber too–depending on what he gets), and hopefully he will start eating more hay as he continues to heal.

[Monkeybun]

Ooo bunny ear hat… must find one….

…zomg i found a kitty ear hat. My hubby calls me kitty allt eh time… hehehehehehe

[MimzMum]

lolz…Sounds like they’ve been to the Fudge Pot in downtown Fairbanks. ^_^ I’ve wanted to go in there for SOOOO long!

Better than See’s or Godiva? ^_^

Okay, so Mimzy is eating two helpings, (about a palmful in size) morning and night before medicines, some green leaf lettuce a few carrot slivers and in the last day or so some carrot tops. This is all he seems interested in and not always will he eat it all right away.
I just can’t imagine this is enough fiber to keep him going. It worries me.
He’ll nibble some hay, but won’t take it from my hand anymore at all. I got him to take one pellet tonight by hand. I want to leave him a few more this evening, but he is sniffling pretty regularly again now, so I don’t know.
He wants it cool in his room, but the fan must be drafting him too much, even though I have it facing away.
Should I try giving him more probiotic (since he turned the original dose down flat today) or maybe some Benebac gel? (I’ve had these tubes for about a year or so, don’t know how good they are or if he’ll even take it.)

He keeps having matted fur around his mouth. I try to keep it clean, but now I’m wondering if that’s coming from something drooling from his mouth rather than his medicine doses?

MB…lol…I’ll have to check for the name of the lady who makes the bunny hats.

[Author]

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