mocha + lulu BONDED!!!!

[mocha200]

i am going to start bonding again. should i start like i have never bonded them before and go back to the begining? i started a new form cuz the other one had a lot of pages.

[Deleted User]

I am still favoring the car sessions because the last one worked so well. Have a re-intro in your family’s vehicle.

[mocha200]

we aren’t going any were today though and my parents don’t want to pay the gas money to just drive around any thing else that is just as affective?

[Deleted User]

You can have sessions in the parked vehicle, I don’t think it needs to be running and burning gas to work for Mocha and Lulu. I think they will associate the space of the vehicle with last time’s ride that got them snuggling so much.

You can use a cube on top of the washer too, or the bath tub, but I thought the vehicle would be more comfortable for a longer session.

[Deleted User]

Great job on your signature, Mocha, your bunnies are so flashy-looking

[mocha200]

ok but we lent the van to my aunt that they rode in last time, would the car work? don’t thank me for the signature my dad did it his job is with computers so he new how to do it. i am not very good with that kind of stuff

[Deleted User]

How nice of your dad to make you this signature.

Use the car then. Any vehicle is fine!

[mocha200]

ok what if it doesn’t work??

[Deleted User]

Then you could move them to the bathtub, inside an NIC cube, and run water into the drain as a noise stressor. The cube forces them close and the tub allows for the running water.

Stay optimistic now. Try a short session inside the car. You need to be calm for them.

[MarkBun]

Another good stress device is the vacuum. Just have it running about 10 feet from where you’re doing the bonding.

[mocha200]

Day 1 (of the new start) 45 min or longer.

at first they snuggled then the sniffed around and tried to get off the seat. then mocha humped her. after awhile of trying to get off the seat, she groomed mocha, then she humped him. then groomed him, groomed him and groomed him. after awhile of grooming she stuck her head in betwean his side and the back of the seat and flopped! 😮 it was soooo cute! then she groomed him and tried to get off the seat the rest of the time. oh yeah i forgot to add that in the beginning of the session she kept biting his side over and over until i stopped her but she never did it again.

[jerseygirl]

Mocha, you could use things like a washing trolley, an old pram or a drinks cart. Then just push it around the yard or inside the house. I think using something like this you would be better to use a high sided box for the bunnies so they can’t see out too much. They’ll just feel the movement. Something you can still reach into to settle them if they tussle. Also, if you do use something like this, try not to stop the movement when you do have to settle the,m. You don’t want them learning that fighting will stop the movement. So you could just rattle the box as you settle them then start pushing again when all is well.
Hope this gives you some alternatives to use if you can’t use a car.

Lulu nipping at Mochas side might be her asking for grooms or her reaction when he doesn’t groom her.

[Deleted User]

I am glad you got to use the car. Stick with it now for a while because the parked car is a no-stress space that works for Lulu and Mocha. This is very good. The car is big enough to allow for different interactions and you want those as long as there are no fights. If they were to start fighting I would go with the stress bonding that Jerseygirl describes.

[mocha200]

i did the dryer today for about 15 min. and it seemed to work but i had to put a towel over the top cuz lulu was trying to jump out. then i put them in the tub and they did great! there was no flopping though but there was some grooming but the rest of the time she just tried to get out of the tub. one time she tried to jump over the side but it was to slippery and she slid. ( that girl is just crazy about showing off her skills ) one time she tried to climb the back of the tub ( you know how it is slanted) and she slid down almost on her stomach it was sooo cute and funny! sorry i didn’t see your post before so i didn’t do it in the car. there was a some nipping frome lulu on the side but i flicked water on her and she stopped and groomed him again.

[Elrohwen]

Sounds like they’re doing pretty good! Maybe all they needed was to go back a few steps in bonding and have some positive interations.

[Deleted User]

That’s great! That’s fine — I just posted here what I would do going by what you have told me. The bathtub is always fine since you had sessions there before with good results. Plus, flicking water on Lulu will definitely help with her nipping. Good work again.

Hehe: Lulu sliding down the side of the tub, that must have been hilarious to watch!

[mocha200]

it was!!! tomorrow i MIGHT be able to take them for a car ride but i am not sure yet. i read this article someone gave to TheRabbit to read and it was good! i am going to make a xpen cage for mocha tonight and going to put them side by side and switch cages every day. maybe switch the boxes? i might do a session tonight but it might be to late when i get home from getting bunny food and litter.

[Lintini]

I am really happy for you that it’s going so well now, and I love your new siggy – your buns are so cute!

[Deleted User]

mocha, if you can’t go for an actual car ride, don’t worry. Just repeat what you did yesterday (bathtub or parked car session)

[mocha200]

ARG… i didn’t do one yestureday. it was a busy day

[mocha200]

day 3 60 min.

today i think went pretty good in the beginning there were 2 humps from mocha but the rest of the time lulu groomed him. about 50 min. into it they slept side bye side for about 5 min!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! but then when they got up mocha got humpy, so i put them in the basket walked around a little then put them back. oh btw it was in the tub.

[Deleted User]

sounds like a excellent session! keep it up.

[Deleted User]

Mocha, if you find them to be overly humpy, maybe it is time to introduce a stunt double for the sessions. Do you have a stuffed animal that you can give up for this? It would need to be infused with your rabbits’ scents first though.

[mocha200]

0i have a video, i just haven’t uploaded it to photo bucket yet.

[mocha200]

day 4 15 min.

i did it in the tub again but this time my friends were over so they were in there with me, so i didn’t make it long.

there was a little grooming but not as much but i think its because it wasn’t very long. mocha kept demanding then lulu did so the kind of sat there pushing there heads together until lulu groomed him. there were about three humps in the begging. then here is the BEST THING THAT EVER HAPPENED IN THERE HISTORY OF BONDING……………………….MOCHA FLOPPED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  he has never flopped during a session before. it was amazing. i can’t believe it. and he didn’t only flop once….. but TWICE. i know i am really excited but it was so cute!!!!! lulu didn’t flop this time. i think she was jealous of mocha, cuz it was his b-day.

[mocha200]

My mom and me are going to my grandmas and grandpa’s today! ( the place that is two hours away) and i am bringing mocha and Lulu! if my mom stops at a store on the way is that ok? i am going to pack: two carriers, a dog crate x-pen, food/veggies. the only problem is is i only have one dog crate at night for one of them to sleep in ( cuz they can’t go in the house they are going to sleep in the van, and i can’t do a bonding session in the house ether. but i can do them in the car even thought it isn’t moving.) were would the other one sleep? i will have to think about that. we might stay till tuesday but i am not sure. should i bring anything else?

[Deleted User]

Mocha, I think I am seeing your update too late. I hope you decided to bring the bunnies. I was thinking you could take some of your NIC grids and make a temporary crate out of that for the second bun.

[mocha200]

we stopped at my aunts house on the way and picked up another dog crate. It went great on the way up here! they snuggled the whole way. but at one point for about 10 minutes mocha was laying ontop of her so i pushed him off cuz it didn’t look like it comfortable for lulu. he never did it again after that. when we got here i set up the xpen so they could run around and stretch, then mocha started to chase her. in total he chased her 4-5 times! so i put them back in the caryer and they acted like perfect angles like they new nothing about of what just happend. so they are in there crates now. why wont he stop chasing here! i thought after that 2 and a 1/2 hour trip of snuggling and no humping that they would be fine. what should i do?

[Deleted User]

don’t give in. you did the right thing to separate for a bit. they are still sorting out who will be the boss. Some newly bonded buns chase for a couple of months even after moving in together. My Deirdra has been bonded with Neigey for 5 months now and she chases him at times. You have to know though what kind of chasing it is. Vicious chasing means the rabbit who is chasing is looking to fight the other. That’s when you need more sessions and more time. While you are at your garndparents, have some sessions in the parked car but separate them at night. Don’t get too worried now, they did great today on the trip!

[mocha200]

he chases her to hump her, and sotimes she will turn around and bight him…. she looses quite a bit af fur though.

[Deleted User]

As long as no skin breaks and you break up the nipping — continue with the sessions.

[mocha200]

ok.. will do.

[mocha200]

another day! i am not sure how long it was today but i am guessing 60 minutes at the very least.

today was AWSOME!!!!!! in the begning there wasn’t much except maybe a few humps. but then they went and ate grass and stuff. there was a little more chasing but it was bad, like he would try to hump then lulu would run then he would walk a few steps but they didn’t do any circles or anything. after awail i got bored and desided to sit down in the pen with them (now here comes the fun part) and i talked to them and when they came over to me and i petted them then they would sneek around me and nudge me on the back then they would try to climb on me. they were soooooooooo cute! they ran around me and i acted like a bunny when they would lay down togather i would lay my head down and say ” go to sleep” and i would pretend to sleep. i know you probably think i am weird but i had a blast! after awail i got the feeling that mocha was getting jelues when i gave lulu atention cuz he would run her off. so i f=desided to stand up even though i was having fun. then mocha did a few binkys! yay!!! then one time when mocha walked up to lulu looking like he was going to hump here she did this huge side hop and landed on me. was it a binky do you think? there was lots of flops from lulu probably 5-6 of them. i think mocha might have floped a once but he layed down a lot. the cutest thing is when they would lay down next to each other, like when lulu would flop she would flop next to him ( they were head by head) and she would set her paw on his head then groom him! she did this a few times in a row!!!!!! mocha kinda humped a little but lulu learned just to run away and mind her own buisness. i had a blst on the groud with them though, and at one point lulu went on her hind legs and sniffed my face so i gave her a kiss on her head and she didn’t care! once i put a dandielion on there heads, Lulu didn’t really care but mocha looked at me like ” git dis off my head wright now!” i am sure you guys now the look. hehe!

[Deleted User]

I am so happy for you that they had a blast, and you! I guess, the new place really relaxed them! I love sideways binkies!
I don’t think you are weird, but I do think now you might be part rabbit… sleping on the grass… hehe.

[mocha200]

yes it was fun! when do you think the humps will go down?

[Deleted User]

It will be a while, but soon enough it should not cause any serious fighting any longer.

[mocha200]

does there have to be no humps at all going on in the pen before going to the next step? tommarow morning we are going home so i hope that will help. on the way here we stopped at a pet store and got some chew blocks and a bunch of willow sticks and the willow sticks are like completly distroyed. i am glad they like willow cuz i am getting willow toys in the mail tomarow for BB.

[Deleted User]

no, there will still be humping even by the time you are ready to cement them.

[mocha200]

then how can you tell when to move them to the next step?

[Deleted User]

when there are no more fighting starts: when one goes for a humping, the other should either tolerate it, or take off successfully. When there are grooming requests, they should either be fulfilled, or at least be ignored without aggression. A little fur tuft pulled out form time to time is fine, though. Basically you look for if the buns want to be in the same place together; do they follow one another peacefully, do they lounge together reliably… this sort of thing.

[mocha200]

well when mocha was laying by the edge of the fence lulu went over and flopped and groomed him and then they layed by eachother for about 5 minutes and then they got up and then they did it again but didn’t stay as long. there were no nips except lulu would bite his but or side when she wanted to be groomed. is this the kind of stuff i want to see happen a few times then i know i am ready for the next step? if i want to do another one before tonight could i do it out side even though it is getting dark?

[Deleted User]

If the pen is safe and you will be with them the whole time, yes, you can do one more tonight.
You want to see positive intercations over and over a few times before moving up to the next level.

[mocha200]

not sure if this was very positive….

the whole time mocha was chasing lulu! he would run up to her doing a soft grunt, then they would go round and round. then he started binkying around while chasing her! then somtimes he would run up to her and she would to a big side binking. then somtimes when he wasn’t chasing her she would run around and jump over mocha. ( i guess he was her jump) toward the end they started a fast chase round and round really fast. they didn’t stop til i went in the pen then they calmed down a bit. so i desided to end it. but i had a lot of trubble getting them in the carryer togather even with my moms help.so we had to take them one by one back to there cages. i am not sur what this whole session ment at all. i guess i am further away from the next step then i thought i was. oh yeah and for some reason mocha was chinning every thing! like i held a stick out to him for him to chew and he kept chinning it. could you explain what this ment? were they haveing fun running around binkying or what?

[Deleted User]

It was at dusk wasn’t it? Rabbits really get their binkies on around that time of day. They can get a bit wild. Yes, you will need more sessions but they didn’t fight, did they? So this is good! You are on your way! Evening sessions can be intense. Did you read about Otto & Hannah going hump-crazy at weird hours? It is a similar thing.

[Deleted User]

* when they jump over top of one another it is to avoid a confrontation. Like Neigey at the end of this video jumps over top of Deirdra.

 

[mocha200]

yeah i herd about that. and yes it was dark they were prety active. nope. there were not even a bite the whole time! not even butt bites from lulu. lulu only groomed him once. i know i am very far from cementing but i kinda want to know if i need to buy a smaller cage for that? or can i use nic cubes, and if so how big? or should i use a dog crate? i just kinda want to plan a head cuz if i need to buy a cage i will have to start saving now cuz i don’t have any money. and if i need to build one i need to ask my dad to make a floor for it. just wondering thanks!!!!

[mocha200]

ok i will have to watch that video tomarrow unless i can get it to work. cuz i my grand parents have very slow dial up so it might not work but i will try!

[Deleted User]

You don’t need to buy a small cage for bonding. You might just be able to put something together from the things you have: xpen, NIC grids, etc. Not all rabbits can be, or need to be in as small a cage for cementing like Elrohwen’s Otto and Hannah.
let’s see how they are when you get back home, this will give you a correct measure because it will be on their ‘home turf’.

[mocha200]

i am hoping tomorrow if it is still not raining i will set up the xpen somewhere. we are home now btw. on the way home it went good except mocha humped a little on the way home. but lulu groomed him so that’s good right? i think they are happy to be home now.

[mocha200]

i just watched the video.

[Deleted User]

was Neigey’s jumping over Deirdra similar to what Lulu and Mocha were doing last night?

[mocha200]

the thing was mocha would be sitting there looking out of the xpen not even moving and she would run around and jump over him.

[Deleted User]

oh! that’s different then! I would say she was just using him as an obstacle to binky over!

[mocha200]

i think she likes to show off her skills to her man!

[Deleted User]

Sounds like Mocha couldn’t care less… sitting motionless watching the scenery… too funny!

[mocha200]

i wish i had gotten it on camera but i didn’t want to leave them to go get it.

[Deleted User]

Bonding interactions are the funniest… but never leave them unattended!

[mocha200]

i am going to goo try to find a place to do a bonding session want me to take video?

[Deleted User]

Are you really asking? You know, I believe bonding videos are so great — please!

[mocha200]

hehe. Okay

[mocha200]

i am doing the session right now and Lulu has gone humping crazy!

[mocha200]

i got a video but it has humping on it do you still want me to post it?

[Deleted User]

Just post it, I don’t see any rule in the BB guidelines that prohibits bonding footage with humping in it.

[mocha200]

[Deleted User]

Lulu is the boss. I think Mocha has accepted that, even though reluctanty. These two act exactly like my Lint and Mops in the beginning.
What happens after Lulu humps him? Does she repeat?

[mocha200]

no i got all the humping there has been so far on that video. he has been sitting in the corner most of the time sense then now. but why do you think she is the boss if mocha has been the one humping this whole time?

[mocha200]

there has been more but bites though.

[Deleted User]

If I remember correctly, even when Mocha used to do some humping, Lulu did also. In the video Mocha takes her humping submissively. You may need a few more sessions but if there are no fighting starts you could look into what materials you have to make a temporary cementing habitat for them. Where is this place that you took the video?

[mocha200]

the hall way out side my door.

[Deleted User]

Oh, you’re back home. Would you be allowed to house them there for, say, ten days? You could build up around them in that nook of the hallway with grids. Just an idea… do a few more sessions adding some items such as litterboxes.

[mocha200]

ten days starting when?

[Deleted User]

What other spots are there other than your room, you could use?

[mocha200]

maybe our craft room but i am not sure. or maybe the basement.

[Deleted User]

I would continue doing daily sessions, two per day, with items in their bonding area, then, if iit goes well for the rest of this week, I would build a cementing enclosure in a neutral spot.

[mocha200]

are you saying i should keep them in the hallway for ten days starting now? or later?

[Deleted User]

It has to be close to where you are, you want to sleep there too for the first night.

[mocha200]

oh i get it.

[Deleted User]

Later! No cementing this week! Just planning for it

[mocha200]

so should it be in the hallway?

[mocha200]

i mean the cementing in the hallway?

[Deleted User]

I don’t know your house but it actually looks like there are doors going from that spot to rooms and a grid enclosure would be terribly in your way. I like the spot for the fact it is by your bedroom. — did you discuss with your parents about cementing, what it is, and that it has to be done somewhere other than your room to prevent any territorial fights?

[usagi]

can you sleep in the hallway with them? would your parents flip? you could go to sleep after them and set an alarm and wake up before them, they would never know.

[Deleted User]

No, nothing on the sly!

[mocha200]

yeah it would be in the way. hmmmm. i am allowed to sleep in the bassment when ever i want its just its not neutral. uhhhh they are both humping now. before they were laying in a corner together for about 10 minutes bbut they had to get up and hump.

[Deleted User]

no fighting though?

[usagi]

Sorry Mocha, bad advice.  

Whatever Petzy says, she knows you and your parents and the bonding process.  

Always good to keep the parents involved and in the loop when possible.

[Deleted User]

The basement might be fine to use. It sounds lke a good place for cementing. If you build them a cementing enclosure and use a sheet to cover the floor it will be neutral enough.

[mocha200]

no there hasn’t been any fighting sense the day i got up to my grandparents and i think they fought cuz they were tired and hungry and had been cooped up all day.

[Deleted User]

I don’t actually know mocha’s parents… I just know from mocha that they have been very supportive of everything and I think it would be unfair and disobedient to leave them out of the loop.

[mocha200]

should i use a dog crate or x pen? ( just so i know witch one to scrub with vinegar.

[mocha200]

no i would never do anything behind there back, even if it meant not bonding them!

[Deleted User]

how big a dog crate do you have? Have they ever been in such a small space together?

[mocha200]

they were in the carrier together on the way to my grandparents and on the way back.

[mocha200]

update on what is happening. they have been sitting in the corner laying head bye head for about 5- 10 minutes and lulu will groom mocha a little.

[Deleted User]

A carrier is too small for cementing. Use the xpen.

Grooming is a promising sign…

[mocha200]

what about the dog crate? it is bigger than the carrier.

[Deleted User]

Try them in it. I used one for a trio I bonded and it worked. It depends on the buns. It may be too small for Lulu and Mocha but have a crate test session to find out.

This one measured 36″ by 28″ by 24″, the shelf helped too.

[mocha200]

mocha’s hair looks sooo funny cuz of all the kisses lulu just gave him

[mocha200]

i am sooooooooo happy i just looked out the door and saw my BB package!!! yay it finally came.!

[usagi]

sounds like you have really supportive parents, mocha. that is really wonderful. haha petzy, i know that you probably didn’t “technically” know Mocha’s parents, but you know about them.

Sorry to keep interrupting, I am following this thread closely because I want to bond Lems with a forever friend in the near future, and Mocha asks really good and specific questions. So important. The details are really key.

[mocha200]

oh thats fine usagi!

[Deleted User]

usagi, this thread is open to you and everybody! Please join!

[usagi]

petzy, how did you secure the top shelf? that’s a great setup, especially for travel, and i can see why it would be good for cementing.

haha, mocha, isn’t it the best thing ever when the bb package comes, and the bb stamp is on everything, and you get to see what the gift of the month is? it makes me so happy.

[Deleted User]

Oh! A BB package! Maybe there will be new — neutral — things in there you can add to the sessions?

[Deleted User]

It was a dilapidated old board I drilled four holes in and wired with heavy wire.

[mocha200]

this is the first time i ordered from here! i just got my clicker and clicker training book and a few willow toys! should i add a willow toy and see what they do?

[Deleted User]

Yes, give them a new toy to see! I want one of those BB clickers too, they look to be the best!

[mocha200]

i roled the willow ball to lulu and she is chewing like crazy. and i gave a willow ring to mocha and he is chomping away to.

[usagi]

Ok, so here is a question on the topic of carriers – I know that Mocha has been back and forth to the grandparents house, and I am not sure how long the drive is. However, we are preparing for a really long car ride (12 hrs) and I am flipping out because I don’t know what would be best to put Lemony in. We are bringing the xpen for when we get there, and can use it for excersize at rest stops. But we are taking a sedan, and there isn’t a whole lot of room – 2 ppl, Lems, plus cello, plus lots of stuff. Lemony will have at most one seat plus the middle seat… Should I take his regular cage? We never really lock him up in it anymore because we have expanded his area a lot, and he has gotten so big… I am not sure how we would be able to secure this big of a cage, and I am not entirely sure if it is going to fit. If it does fit, it will be tight, and I don’t want him to feel clausterphobic. We also have a plastic carrier, as well as a new fabric carrier with mesh that he really likes, that opens from both sides and the top, and fits the litterbox inside. He likes to poke his head out of the top. But for 12 hours? I just don’t know what to do. Should I go all out and buy something bigger than the carrier, but smaller than the cage? My fiance thinks I am crazy for worrying about this so much, but it is really important to me that Lemony be as comfortable as possible. If we do take a smaller carrier, is it ok to let him out in the car? He should be secured at all times, right? Just don’t know what to do.

[mocha200]

haha they just switched toys. hey lulu! she just took it away from him and now he is chasing her.

[usagi]

Awww, new bb toys! They never last long, hehe.

[mocha200]

i know! they are already chewed up my trip was 2 and a half hours.

[Deleted User]

usagi, I would take the small carrier for the ride and let him out on a blanket on the seat, or on your lap. Leave the big cage at home since you are already taking a crate for when you get to your destination.

[mocha200]

lulu just flopped!

[mocha200]

now mocha flopped and did a big stretch!

[usagi]

Thanks, Petzy. That sounds like the best solution. Then, I can still have his litterbox, and he can still stretch out a bit on the seat if he would like. Put my heart to rest (for now, hehe). Thanks so much.

[usagi]

mocha, take another vid! wanna see, wanna see!

[mocha200]

want to see some pics?

here they are laying togather.

and here is mocha’s flop.

i would take video but they are both sleeping so nothing is happening.

[usagi]

oh my gosh, mocha, they look so sweet together! awwwwwww!!!!

i can see where mocha’s fur is all messy from lulu kisses.

[mocha200]

hehe yeah she licks him pretty good.

[mocha200]

ok i go into my room and get somthing real quick and i come out and here they are chasing each other!

[Deleted User]

There will be chasing. The chasing gives you important insight into where they are in their bonding: was there a fighting start at any point during the chase?

[mocha200]

no they just ran around for about 15 seconds and stopped and did there own thing. the only sine of aggression this session is lulu biting mochas but to try to get him to groom her.

[mocha200]

i ended it cuz we have to go some were. but don’t you think that was a good session?

[mocha200]

all together it was 2 hours.

[Deleted User]

it was an excellent session. If this continues you can start cementing soon, as in next week.

[mocha200]

for cementing do you have to be there 24/7?

[Deleted User]

For the first 48 hours definitely, after that, no.

[mocha200]

ok just so i can plan to be home.

[Deleted User]

yes, you need a plan for bonding!

[mocha200]

2 session in the hallway.

i am doing a session right now in the hallway and it is going pretty good. at first they just hopped around and did there own thing. then lulu groomed mocha for about 5-10 minutes but then mocha got a little humpy. He humped about three times so far. and after he humps he will chase her around a little. but no humping for lulu! yay!
here are some videos that i took. these videos show the worst of what happened so far, if you want videos of them just hopping around just let me know.

[Deleted User]

You have made it to the larger space! If these videos are showing the “worst” of what happend today, you might want to try them out in the space you have planned for cementing (in your basement).

[mocha200]

like in a pen in the basement or in the cage they will be in?

[Deleted User]

I am leaning toward a pen but why don’t you try them out in that crate you mentioned yesterday? Have they ever been in such a small space together?

[mocha200]

yes they ware in a puppy carrier on the way home from my grandparents.

[Deleted User]

I am thinking you could make a session in your largest dog crate in your basement as a test run.

[mocha200]

should i scrub it with vinegar first?

[Deleted User]

have you used it before for either of them?

[mocha200]

yes.

[mocha200]

that is what they stayed in when we went to my grandparents

[Deleted User]

did they stay in that carrier together, or was one of them in there separately?

[mocha200]

one was in one kennle and one was in the other. i have 2.

[mocha200]

 

i can take pics of theem if you want so you can see what they look like

[Deleted User]

I think to just try a small pen in the basement and do a couple of day-long sessions if you able to (if you are at home).
Yes, show me pictures of those kennels, please.

[mocha200]

there are pics above.

[Deleted User]

oh, wow, those are good to use too! It is your call, crate or pen. Defintely wash down with vinegar before though. Make a video of them during the basement pre-cementing session

[mocha200]

should i start today?

[mocha200]

and then do it till i go to bed tonight? like around 10pm put them back in there cages?

[Deleted User]

Posted By mocha200 on 05/12/2010 12:50 PM
should i start today?

 

…why don’t you… just don’t take your eyes off of them

[mocha200]

i am almost in tears right now. ( happy tears) mocha, for his first time ever, is grooming LULU!!!!!!!!!! he has been doing it for the last 3 minutes.

[Deleted User]

yay!

[Monkeybun]

Yay for Mocha!!!

[mrmac]

Go Mocha!

[mocha200]

ok i have the pen setup and they are in it. there has been chasing already.

[Deleted User]

Chasing already? Then try a crate now to see if there is a different dynamic. You want the most peaceful setup for cementing.

[mocha200]

i haven’t washed it yet though

[mocha200]

should i try without washing it?

[mocha200]

i tried it without washing it.

[usagi]

and?

[Deleted User]

and?

[mocha200]

no chasing yet.

[Deleted User]

what are they doing?

[mocha200]

this is what was happening in the xpen.

[Deleted User]

It was about the litterbox. The setup needs a second box beside the first one.

[Deleted User]

Let’s see the crate as a setup.

[mocha200]

oh well i already switched to the kennel is that bad?

[Deleted User]

no, no, we were looking to compare the dynamics so you have to do both

[mocha200]

 

here it is

[Deleted User]

so far so good? they are exploring right now, are they?

[mocha200]

yes very very good. they were exploring before but now they are cuddling.

[mocha200]

aww.. now mocha is trying to hump her.

[Deleted User]

OK, I have to log off. I am gettng company and have to cook a dinner for everyone…

If they get along, leave them til tonight. If they start to escalate in chasing, separate but end on a good note somehow smewhere. A little chasing is fine. Can you take out the big litterbox and give them two small ones instead?

[Deleted User]

maybe once the humping is done they will settle… observe carefully! you are getting there!

[mocha200]

ok there was a little chaseing but not much.

[mocha200]

i stopped it cuz there was a lot of chasing going on.

[Elrohwen]

Awww, I just noticed you are starting cementing. Good job!

Don’t worry too much about the first night. Being put in a cage together full time is so different from bonding, so they probably just need a couple sessions before they settle down.

[Deleted User]

How long were they in the crate until you separated, what started the chasing?
I think you are at the same point where Monkeybun is with Moose and Monkey. You need a larger space then such as a pen where you can sit inside of with them and wear them down: stop the chasing whenever it starts, but try to draw out the sessions to a few hours. You can use your hands to stop the chasing by pushing down the head of the instigator. Wear gloves again. Every time they want to chase, and you stop them, also do a brief forced snuggle where you can use your hands to immitate mutual grooms between them. You would have them sit on your lap, and their heads together close, and rub their heads with your fingers. Wet your fingers for this in their water bowl to make it more like licks.

[mocha200]

should i do them in the pen then with two boxes?

[Deleted User]

yes, I would put them in a pen today with two litterboxes. Can you fit in the pen also?

[mocha200]

yeah i can.

[Deleted User]

This will be time-consuming, you might want to have something there to pass the time for yourself. The longer you draw out the session the closer you will get to being able to move them in for cemeting.

[mocha200]

i am bonding right now. there hasn’t been any chasing just a little humping from mocha. but lulu has groomed mocha a lot. i am in the cage with them and i have been getting a lot of head bumps and bites from them. do you think i should not be in the cage with them?

[Deleted User]

Posted By mocha200 on 05/13/2010 11:11 AM
  (…)i am in the cage with them and i have been getting a lot of head bumps and bites from them.

 

are they hurting/attacking you or just nipping a little? Right now, you are the third thing which will act as a buffer zone between them. I am hoping that it will bring peace between them as they are somewhat friends and confronted with you in their space. I just would not want you to get bit hard! If they do, you may be able to put a chair or stool in and sit on that so only your legs are in their way.

 

[mocha200]

no just little nips

[Deleted User]

Ok, mine do that too, hehe.
alright, what is happening now?

[mocha200]

i am uploading a video on photo bucket right now it might not be ready for 20 minutes though. it takes awhile. oh and in the video you will probably hear my dad laughing in the background, unless that was a different video i took, not sure.

[mocha200]

mocha’s grooming lulu! i wish i had the camra but i set it out side the pen

[Deleted User]

hopefully there will lots of grooms in the future to catch on camera

[mocha200]

i got him grooming her in the hallway on tape wana see once the other video is uploaded? it is cute.

[Deleted User]

I will watch any Mocha/Lulu footage… they are so lovely together!

[mocha200]

thanks.. it will be a little longer cuz i accidentally canceled it. uhh.. i should think before i click.

[mocha200]

here is a video!

[mocha200]

here is mocha grooming lulu in the hallway: sorry it is so bad quality.

[Deleted User]

That’s all going very well. Maybe, you will need to sleep inside their pen for the cementing — kidding!!!
Love the kitties watching the event… you in the pen, cats looking in, too funny!

[mocha200]

yes it kinda gets annoying sometimes though. should they sleep together tonight?

[Deleted User]

Well, here is the thing with cemeting: you have to do it at some point because you can only get so far with sessions… but you don’t want to cement too early because then it puts you back. however, even if you try cementing and it doesn’t work out, it is not a lost cause. So yes why don’t you try it? Tell me first what was the chasing like that prompted you to stop the session yesterday?

[mocha200]

well they were going in circles chasing each other and it was a little bit hard to stop them. but i only had one litter box and when ever i start in a new place the first day is always bad. but i am leaving for a few hours to go to dance, but i will be home around 7 so i could put them back in the pen and if they do good then i could have them over night, cuz after dance tonight i will be home for 48 hours cuz its the weekend. does that sound good? (btw i am home schooled so i am home all day.

[Deleted User]

yes, this is a good plan. You need to be glued to their pen though and don’t break it up unless things get out of hand. As a rule, if there is chasing, as long as one bun keeps on running away as opposed to turning on the chasing bun, leave it be. Most times at the stage you are at, the chasing bun will give up the chase once the other bun got a good run around. If a chase gets fastter and faster and escalating into chasing EACH OTHER, yes, you need to intervene by using a stressor on them. What stressor works on them, have you tried a spray bottle?

[mocha200]

we don’t have a spray bottle i can use.

[mocha200]

here is a video of lulu licking my foot.

[Deleted User]

She is grooming everyone now, isn’t she?

Do you have an empty soda can that you can fill with coins to shake at them? Or even more effective, a plastic shopping bag filled with several empty soda cans to bump at them when they are chasing?

[mocha200]

yeah i could do that. yes she has licked my foot 4 times this session i am so hungry and want a snack but don’t want to leave them. but i guess i can wait for 15 minutes cuz that’s when i got to go get ready.

[mocha200]

in the night if i have to go to the bathroom or something can i go? its in hearing distance.

[Deleted User]

It’s tough the bonding supervision, I found that too. Hungry, no bathroom breaks… LOL.
I know you tried the two in a cube I think on top of your dryer in the beginning, I am wondering if you want to have a cube ready for them if things get ugly. What I have done during the first crucial 24 hours of cementing is confine the rabbits in a cube when they acted up so I would not have to break them up cmpletely. In the cube, you can control their heads by keeping them pushed down until they chill out. Of course, you’d have to be awake for this. You will need your sleep too. As another option, you could transition into the cementing gradually: you would start cementing by putting them together for a few consecutive entire days but separate at bed time.

[Deleted User]

of course, you will need to take a bathroom break, just do it when they are loafing around.

[mocha200]

ok they are together now. i will use the carrier and put them in there and shake them around a little then put them back in. or wouldn’t that work?

[mocha200]

i tried to cement last night… but it didn’t work at all. i started around 8pmand went till 1:30am. when i started it went pretty good cuz i was in the cage with them, as i got tired though i got out to lay down right outside the pen. then about every 5 minutes would get up and go in the cage and it would be fine, and i get out same thing happens. at one point i tried to sleep in there but lulu kept on coming up to me and biting me really hard, i would say ouch and push her away but i didn’t work she would just come cack and bite me again. latter on they settle down a bit and went a halve an hour without chasing. then it started again and about every 1–20 minutes they would chase, about 1:15 they chase but i decided to see would happen if i didn’t stop them, i thought maybe they would stop on there own, but they kept going round and round and round. so i go in the pen and try to stop them but she was so scared she kept on running away! finally i caught her and put her by mocha and petted her,she was breathing so fast and something was going boom boom boom boom ( quietly) i don’t know if it was her heart beating or her breathing. i thought she was going to die in frear so i put her back in her cage and put mocha back in his cage to. i don’t know how you guys can do this, but i don’t think i can emotionally handle this cuz as soon as i put them back in there cages i bursted into tears. i know i have gotten sooo far in bonding but do not think i am going to be able to do this last step. i am about to drive them somewhere were they will finish bonding for me but i don’t think there is anywere in WI that bonds rabbits. i wish i could take them to your house Petzy.

p.s. i feel much better that it is morning but i still dont think i can cement them alone.

[Elrohwen]

You can do it! I believe in you! I know how hard it is – I broke down in tears at 6:30am next to the bunny cage today. It’s not easy, but you’ve come so far that you can’t go back now. That’s what I keep telling myself 😉

I think you should try just putting them together during the day and separating them at night. They’re so much quieter during the day that it will be a nice laid back time for them to get used to living together. After you’re comfortable with doing that for a few days you can try them overnight. Nighttime is the hardest because you just want to sleep but they just want to run around and annoy each other. So start slow and do what you can handle.

[Deleted User]

You did the right thing to separate again. I have been there, Mocha. It can be oh so disheartening. Take the weekend off from bonding to feel better. You have put in so many hours and worked so hard, you deserve a break. I know at times, I got so tired of it during my bonding and the only thing that helped was a little break.
I am going to think about the setup, and I’m sure other members on here might have ideas too to suggest. It may be that they just can’t cement in the pen, but that they need somewhere weird enough to make them put aside their little tiffs. The idea of sharing a space with one another is a big deal for bonding rabbits so this is why you see those chases over and over.
Bonding/cementing is 90% environment, and 10% rabbit personality. We just need to find the right spot for their cementing.
On a positive note, owing to your diligent supervision, they have had no nasty fights or injuries! That’s awesome! You are a really good bonder in reality. You just need more time and another spot for cementing. They were getting on great in your hallway, at your grandparents’ in the car.
More sessions will definitely help. I have had a bonding where it took three cementing attempts but it still worked.
I don’t want you to worry too much. Your rabbits are worth the work and over time their chasing will lessen!

[Deleted User]

How many NIC grids do you have? I am thinking a different shape of enclosure may help next time around. Someting narrow so there can be no round-and-round chasing, or the L-shaped bonding pen. You could build this up over a tarp, which adds slippery in as a stressor.

[Deleted User]

The L-shaped thing will work for buns who are not out for blood. Did it seem to you at any point during the chasing last night that they wanted to really hurt one another? I know, this is hard to tell but did they face each other at any point or was the whole thing about getting away from each other?

[mocha200]

ok. thank you so much Petzy. i wasn’t sure if i should of separated them. yeah i think a break will help. yes i have a lot of NIC grids and a bunny tarp. were should try it. in the basement? or were?

[mocha200]

it was about getting away. but mocha was the only one who chased lulu never did.

[Elrohwen]

Is there another place in your house that your parents would let you do it? It’s hard to do really long sessions with supervision in the garage I imagine. Would your parents let you set up a pen in the living room or something for a couple days? It would be a different area for them, but you could easily stick around and watch them.

[mocha200]

no it can;t be were my mom can see the mess.

[Elrohwen]

Hmmm. Maybe some more garage sessions would help then.

[mocha200]

sorry to say but i am a little scared to do it in the garage again.

[Elrohwen]

Is there anywhere else you could go that’s new to them?

[Deleted User]

The basement should do. You would need only enough grids to make it one grid high, enough for the sides and ends but none for the top. You could use a cardboard for the top which you could hold in place with bungee cords or wire. You want the top so you can open it up fast for quick access.
This setup can work for some or not for others. Tell me, have you had the two together for extended periods in a pet carrier, like for cats?

[mocha200]

the shed. but it is so far away from the house and if something happened no one would hear me.

[mocha200]

they were in the pet carrier all the way home from my grandparents. it was 2 hours and a halve.

[Deleted User]

So I like the low-side cardboard-covered NIC enclosure because it would be much like a plastic carrier where the top is not letting in light.

[mocha200]

but lulu can jump out easily.

[Deleted User]

no: you would be supervising, that’s why you need low sides, for easy access to break up crazy chases with a stressor. Then, if they do well, you attach the cardboard top, or you can make a grid top too. Lulu will only jump out if you let her.

[mocha200]

ok.

[Deleted User]

The low-sided narrow NIC pen will allow you to sit right with the rabbits without being actually inside their space. The idea is to make it like a cube but longer, and you can start out small, and graduallly increase their space by adding grids.

[mocha200]

ok thanks petzy. i will try to make something like that and see if it works!

[mocha200]

here look at this. does it look ok?

 

 

 

 

[Deleted User]

Hey, you are good! See, that’s why I say you are a pro at bonding already!
It’s perfect.

[mocha200]

i tested it out a little bit ago in the garage for about 30-45 min. and they did pretty good! all that happened bad was, butt biting, little bit of humping ( that was just from being scared though), and one hump from mocha. so i am going to do day sessions for awhile until i am confident in them.

[Deleted User]

You know your bunnies, they always do well in the beginning and then turn ugly. do your best to keep them together but I agree: don’t go to sleep just yet with them in this pen. do day sessions only.

[mocha200]

should i move the cage in the basement were it is going to be? or do a few more sessions in the garage

[Deleted User]

Wherever you’d rather be! I guess, the basement would be best though so you can stick with it when the real cementing starts.

[mocha200]

yeah…… hmmmmm….. i wish i didn’t have to cement in the basement. i like to be were there is sun in the summer. what happens when you cement in a neutral place?

[Deleted User]

Cementing is just for two weeks. There will be plenty of sun after that in your sunny room What happens? — The rabbits will make the neutral place theirs, but theirs together, shared. They become like family to each other in one household, so to speak.

[mocha200]

sorry i meant a non neutral place. sorry.

[mocha200]

i can’t find my bunny tarp is it ok if they don’t have a tarp under neath them?

[Deleted User]

You will do nothing in non-neutral space until after they have cemented if you want this to work. Rabbits are territorial, remember? It can cause hostilities.
Use a blanket in place of the tarp.

[mocha200]

ok thanks! i was just wondering so after they are cemented in the basement will it be hard to get them into a non neutral place or a non neutral pen?

[Deleted User]

after cementing they can be together in all places, neutral and non-neutral. It’s because the cementing makes them like one.

[mocha200]

i think i got it. i have just put them in the basement together in the pen i just made and mocha starts chasing and humping just like every other time in the basement. soo i think the basement is not neutral. cuz they have both been down in the basement several times so i think i am going to cement them somewhere else.

[Deleted User]

It could be the pen atmosphere that makes Lulu feel she must dominate. have you ever tried them in a very large space without pen, such as a room (not yours, a neutral one)? What about the hallway where they got along so well?

[mocha200]

no mochas is the dominant one. he is the one who chases and humps. lulu doesn’t do that.

[Deleted User]

It was a mistake. I meant Mocha.
try them in the hallway if you can in the L-shape pen and without the pen in the hallway again.

[mocha200]

ok i will try that

[mocha200]

i am ready to start up again. i haven’t bonded in like forever! but its because our cat Emmet is really sick! we just found out he has limes disease! he is home now and has medicine and stuff. i am not ever letting my buns out till next spring again, cuz my sister just pulled off two deer tics off herself! ( not attached) and we just found a tic that was attached on our other cat.

[Deleted User]

Oh no! Ticks! That’s nasty! Usually they like to hide in taller grass so if you kept the grass in the bunny pens real short there should not be any ticks but I would not risk it either.

[mocha200]

i am trying to think were i should begin again. were do you think?

[Deleted User]

Restart wherever they got along best before… was it the hallway?

[Beka27]

You don’t have to necessarily restart… just back track to an earlier stage when things were going well.
Some pairs need a big space to work stuff out, others need a small space. It’s going to depend on their dynamic.

[mocha200]

yeah i think so.

[mocha200]

i did a session in the hallway for about 1-2 hours it went good. there was a little bit of humping from mocha and some chasing from him to but not much.

[mocha200]

i think i will try to do it longer tomorrow.

[mocha200]

i have a problem…… mocha and lulu are bonding right now and i was going to do it all day long and if it was going good all night…… but….. we just got a call saying someone is interested in buying our house and they want to look at it on Thursday. so… we have to completely clean our house before then and our house isn’t the cleanest house. so i will have to separate them i really want them bonded before we move so then there new room will be THERE room not half lulu’s and half mochas. so i don’t know if i will have time to bond!

[Deleted User]

The move might just be what gets them bonded, so don’t worry too much. It will REALLY help get them together. You could put them together on your trip to your new home and then start cementing there. Moving residences is the single easiest way of bonding rabbits.

[mocha200]

ok… i wont worry then.

[mocha200]

i might cement tonight……. they seem to be doing good. videos soon!

[mocha200]

i might not be bonding any more…….. i am not sure though……. i just got really freaked out by lulu’s panic attack.

[Monkeybun]

Give Lulu a bit of a break, but don’t stop bonding completely.

[Deleted User]

That session in the hallway went beautifully. Did the cat jump over the gate? Lulu seemed to recognize her/him right away.
are you going to cement in that hallway space?
–I just love Lulu, her markings are my favorite, even though I am into the solid colors more.
I hope you feel calmer now and Lulu too! Seems her panic attack spooked you just as much!

[mocha200]

yes it did! i thought she was going to dye! but i knew she probably wouldn’t cuz she has survived worse before. i am hopping to cement there but i am not sure i will be allowed to. i guess it just depends when we move.

[Deleted User]

What is keeping you from cementing? Have you tried them in your room since you changed it up?

[mocha200]

no….. but how would that help? do you mean cement in my room? or does change help?

[Deleted User]

It is changed which should confuse their sense of territory. Plus, they seemed to get along better and better. I just would not want them to get settled in your room in their separate habitats now when they are supposed to be cementing.

[mocha200]

so what do you think i should do? maybe i could do a xpen session.

[Deleted User]

If you want to cement them, you need to take down their separate pens. I would let them have only their respective cages when they are not together. If they do well in an open space without pen (like the hallway) you might want to try them in your changed room without any pen.

[Deleted User]

*by giving them each a pen around their cage, they will claim parts of your room separate from each other. You want them to share your room so therefore I say no pens.

[mocha200]

so should i try a session in my room? or in the hallway?

[mocha200]

is it to late if ii had them in thoughs pens for two days?

[Deleted User]

Try your room because ultimately it’s where they will live. If they get territorial (fight) move them to the hallway. If they get along in the hallway, start cementing there if your parents allow it there. If they do well in your room, start cementing now

[Deleted User]

*if you have to go out, put them each into their cages, but no more pens for them when separate!

[mocha200]

ok i will have my camera with to show you pics and videos of what is happening. the cage i set up is a xpen in a L shape. i am going to put blankets around the out side so they cant see there cages.

[mocha200]

aw man i can’t cement tonight. errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. we are leaving tomarow to go to my cousins house. argggg. what do i do now?

[mocha200]

i guess i will see what they are like in the pen.

[Deleted User]

No worries. Just do a good long session in your room then. you are working towards the cementing, even if you have to suspend for a short time. How long are you going to be away for?

[mocha200]

3-4 days.

[Deleted User]

Will your rabbits stay at home during this time or be boarded somewhere else?

[mocha200]

at home.

[mocha200]

this is a video of when i first put them in there. now the chasing is a little worse.

[Deleted User]

I see in your photos in the other thread that Mocha’s cage is pretty big because it has the multi-levels. Does Lulu only have a crate if you take away her pen that attaches to that crate? Where is her cool NIC condo you made? I am asking because you could leave the two caged during your absence by taking away their pens. Then, when you return, you can start cementing in your room in one common shared pen. What do you think?

[mocha200]

this is weird u just flopped and mocha goes up to her and starts licking her butt for about 30 seconds then he tried to hump her.

[mocha200]

i had way to many zip ties that she could cut herself on. i mean way to many to cut of and put a new one on. it is to dangerous for when i am gone.

[Deleted User]

they are ready for cementing. If they do fine in your room, cage them individually during your absence and start cementing in one pen upon your return.

[mocha200]

ok. what about the crate it is to small for 3 days isn’t it?

[Deleted User]

yes, it is. what about the nic condo?

[mocha200]

i had way to many zip ties that she could cut herself on. i mean way to many to cut of and put a new one on. it is to dangerous for when i am gone.

[Deleted User]

good point.

Leaver her with a pen around the crate then. If it gets to be an issue at cementing time, in terms of territory, you still have the halllway, right?

[mocha200]

ok… i will do that.

[mocha200]

i ended it. it was about 2 hours long

[Deleted User]

that’s great — you can cement them when you return, you can do it.

[mocha200]

i think i will start after this weekend cuz i am having a birthday party on monday.

[mocha200]

i am pretty sure mocha and lulu are bonded!

[mocha200]

ok i had them in there cementing cage noon yesterday… they didn’t hump at all and barely chased! they cuddled behind the hay box and Lulu licked mocha. When i woke up to go to the bathroom in the middle of the nigh i turned on the light and they were snuggling. and it is so cute when they eat out of the same dish! today Mocha licked Lulu!!!it was so cute! i went some were for 3 hours today and they were fine! i am going to clean my floor with vinegar so it wont smell like one of them. how do i change from there cementing cage to mocha’s condo without issues?

[mocha200]

mocha is starting to try to hump lulu does that mean they aren’t bonded? i have a stuffed animal in there but he hasn’t humped that instead yet.

[Monkeybun]

From what I understand, humping can continue afterwards, it isn’t a sign they aren’t bonded. BB’s Jack still humps Vivian now and then.

[jerseygirl]

If there was humping but lulu just hopped away and it didn’t cause a fight, then that’s ok. Are you leaving them in the pen? You mentioned 3 hours…do you mean you went out for 3 hours and they were fine? For cementing, you want to leave them in the pen/neutral cage for 1-2 weeks (i think). Then clean out the condo and move them in there afterwards. By then the bond should be strong enough to withstand any little upsets they might have in the condo.

[Elrohwen]

Lots of bunnies still hump after being bonded, so I don’t think it’s a bad sign at all. Just keep an eye on them and make sure Lulu doesn’t get upset by it and start a fight. In my situation, Otto got ticked off at the humping and turned on Hannah (though it was only a scuffle, no injuries), so they just need some extra supervision to make sure they can work it out while living together.

[Deleted User]

Let them cement for the time that Jersey mentioned (1-2 weeks), and then move them where you want them to be permanently. If the humping does not lead to fighting — let it go on. If it leads to chasing even, let it go on, unless it leads to fighting. Nips are allowed, and fur pluckings too. Sometimes, all it takes is to stomp your foot or clap your hands to stop a chasing.

[mocha200]

i moved the pen into my room. but my mom found poop in the living room and got VERY upset…. she said we built a condo for a reason and that i should use it and i am not allowed to use xpens in the house any more, and i have to put my bed frame back up! now there isn’t as much room for the bunny’s. i am kind of mad but i don’t want to show it. arg. i paid over 100 dollars for thoughs x pens and now i can use them! the worst thing is now i have to put them in there condo today after i clean it with vinegar, cuz i can’t have an x pen! i don’t know if it will work! what should i do! ( and she threatened to send them outside again! help!

[Deleted User]

Sending you cheering-up vibes! Don’t worry too much as they are almost bonded. I say take the risk then, and put them into the condo but if there is any way at all for you to change it up a little, do it, and wipe it down with vinegar. Lulu and Mocha have been getting along so they may just transfer nicely for you. Make the rabbits keep a low profile in the house so not to run a risk of them being evicted to the outdoors. Low profile means no stray poops anywhere!
About the xpens, you will find an opportunity to use them again. Focus on the permanent housing for now, the cementing.

[mocha200]

ok… i am really nervuose what if they hump like crazy and fight?! i know i know think positive!

[Deleted User]

They may hump, they may chase but observe the events: as long as they don’t fight — it’s a bond.
You kow what? This morning, I put my rabbits into their outside playpen and they were binkying and then Deirdra groomed Lint… but then hopped away. He got so mad at her for not continuing grooming him that he went after her to nip her into her butt!

[leyley904]

Good luck! Beans and Benny are approaching this stage, too. But they aren’t there yet, for sure!

[mocha200]

i put them in there condo ( as i posted in my other thread) and they have done great! lulu is even licking him!

[Deleted User]

How are they getting on today? Did you manage to keep them together in the condo?

[mocha200]

4 DAY OF CEMENTING! ” 1 DAY IN CONDO”
They have been in the condo for about 24 hours i think and are doing really good! at first mocha tried to hump her but she would just hop away and then they would be fine. It is so funny to watch lulu go up and down the ramps! mocha is like an expert and lulu makes so much noise and it takes her twice as long then mocha to get up! she runs up a little ways then makes her front end go down low to get through the hole then when her front end is through, she makes her back end low to get through! It is so funny! mocha just makes his whole body low and climbs up there in about a split second. I think i might cut the wholes bigger for her. But it is sooo hot in our whole house! I have two fans blowing on there cage and mocha still looks like he is dying in heat! i have a ceramic tile in there that he is laying on so i hope that will help. i found a runny poo on the floor. i think it was cecal ( if that is how you spell it) why do you think that would happen? do you think they might be stressed out? is it bad? ( sorry for all the Questions) when i fed them today the whole time the door was open lulu kept running up and down the ramp and she kept doing that till i closed the door, then after i closed it she stared at me like i was the scariest thing in the world and thumped, she is relaxing more now. why do you think she did that? i had just put on deoterent that might have smelled different. could have that caused it?

[mocha200]

oh one more Question: when can they be let out and get some exercise? do you wait a week or just 48 hours in there condo? I just feel so bad for them being cooped up all day

[Deleted User]

maybe they would like a bottle of frozen water to lounge against.
leave tem in the condo for two full days (48 hours) before letting them out for exercise, just to let them settle in together well.
Thumping is one of a rabbit’s ways of reacting to a new setup/surroundings etc. and the ramp is a new feature for Lulu so she’s probable excited, curious and a little confused.

[mocha200]

i have a frozen block in there for them, so i guess they should be ok. 48 hours, ok thats good i though it was 1 week. thank!

[Deleted User]

to clarify: you can let them out for exercise after 48 hours but they will have to continue cementing in the condo for a whole week.

[Beka27]

I’m so proud of you Mocha!!! Stand your ground!

[mocha200]

Petzy: yes i knew they had to cement for a week, i just thought that during cementing they can’t be let out.

Beka: Thank you! i am so happy they are getting along!

[mocha200]

Petzy: i sent you a message!

[boogercj]

Hey! I just read this; that’s fantastic news, well done!

[Deleted User]

I bet this is the biggest bonding thread so far
Mocha, I would love to see a video of them in their condo.

[Nibbles_NZ]

That’s great! I wasn’t that long ago you said “I don’t think they will ever be bonded”. You did it! I will have to get tips from you when it is time to bond my 2 (this fall + winter). About the house being hot…I feel your pain! We have one window air conditioner that really doesn’t work the best in the living room. I had to move my buns to the living room because I felt sorry for them There are things you can do though. I have 6 ceramic tiles. I bought 6 because I keep 3 out for my buns (1 for Bell and 2 for Baxter since he’s bigger). I keep the other 3 in the fridge. The tiles do get really cold and will sweat so when I first get them out I will fold a sheet and lay it on top. Folded in just enough layers to where they won’t get wet but still feel the coolness. I also do the bottled waters. That helps a lot! Good luck!

[mocha200]

Yes i am glade it is almost over. nibbles i have learned a LOT about bonding from my mistakes. for one, the slower the better DO NOT RUSH BONDING. i was so impatient and because of it they had a fight!

[Deleted User]

Are Lulu and Mocha still getting on fine today? What is new in the cementing condo?

[mocha200]

they are doing great! i was going to post a video last night but for some reason it wasn’t working. you mean what is new like what did i add to make it different for mocha? i added a extra litter box, a hay rack that mocha LOVES he stands on his hind legs with his face stuffed it the hay rack! and i put some stuff in the cage that they had in there cementing cage such as there, same food dish, a stuffed dog ( for grooming and humping), a tile,and some toys! the only thing that has not been good is mocha will teas lulu, if lulu is in a litter box and mocha wants to be in there he will jump in put his head over her butt and pretend to hump until she leaves, she doesn’t seem to mind though. Lulu loves to be up high, so i thought she would LOVE being on the top level, but she is scared of it for some reason…

[Deleted User]

That’s so great! The litterbox bullying will soon end. It is very normal for rabbits to go through that when they first live together.
I think you will be able to leave them together while you go away over the weekend. I think you are almost over the 48 hour hump
(pun intended)

[mocha200]

i just took a video of lulu on the top of the condo! i had to put her up there but she seems to like it! mocha is a little humpy up there, he hasn’t humped her but he tried once. we will see i am sure they will do fine.

[mocha200]

[mocha200]

this is how mocha was sleeping when i woke up this morning!

[mocha200]

sorry its a little blurry.

[Deleted User]

It won’t let me play it…

[mocha200]

hmmm… does it say why?

[Deleted User]

at first it was fine. It had the play button there and then when I wanted to watch it it had changed to a large image — screen — without play button. can you just paste the link so I can see it?

[mocha200]

sure.

[mocha200]

http://s870.photobucket.com/albums/ab267/mocah200/

[mocha200]

you could also try this.

[Deleted User]

mocha it was my oversight — the video works just fine embedded here — I looked at the photo and thought it was the video, I’m a little on the slow side today! Lulu does not look fat to me at least around her face I cannot see any fat rolls.
They seem totally relaxed and at ease together in the condo.
Congrats. You did it! You bonded these buns!

[mocha200]

i am soooo happy its over! and glade they love each other! well now that they are bonded its time to get another bun. jk i REALLY don’t want another one i don’t think i am ever going to have three bunnies at once. to much for me! is four bunnies a lot of work/cleaning/expensive petzy?

[Deleted User]

Sometimes I miss having just a pair. A pair is perfect. I would not want my four rabbits in my bedroom. They need twice as much hay and you have twice as much cleaning to do. You need lots of litter material, vegetables and you have to worry times four. I can have four because they live in my basement where they can make a big mess and make all the noise they want. In the summer time, mine eat grass and I get extremely cheap vegetables from local people who have greenhouses.
For your siituation you would set yourself up for a nervous breakdown if you got another. More is not always better

[mocha200]

yeah thats why i don’t want another one. and i am not allowed to. i would like to help out at our humane society though. they are moving there shelter so they can have more room. any ways they have a bunny once and awhile and they don’t spay or neuter them! i would really like to help the buns who come in.

[mrmac]

Sorry I am a little late Mocha, but CONGRATS!!! You did such a great job!

[mocha200]

Petzy: i think you should start another “your bunny projects! i have a lot of new ideas! and there have been a lot of new i ideas other people have had, such as beka’s shelf/ hidey box and someone made a cool diggy box!

[mocha200]

mrmac: thank you!

[jerseygirl]

mocha200?……….

BINKY ! BINKY-BINKY! Well done for seeing it through. You’ve done great by your 2 buns.

[mocha200]

Cementing 5 day ( 3 day in condo)
Last night did not go so well. When I went in to feed them i noticed mocha kept on trying to hump her!!! I thought maybe he wanted the food to him self but when I went to bed he wouldn’t stop!!!!!!!! he did it over and over again ( he never actually humped her he just tried mount her and then she would run away.). Could it be that he just needs some exercise? he hasn’t had a day out for exercise sense Friday! Should I let them out, or is it to risky because I am leaving soon? I am not sure how long it went on last night because I fell asleep I so tired. but I woke up and they are fine. No mounting yet. Is this normal? I really would hate to separate them! If they are bad again tonight, maybe I can talk my Mom and Dad into taking them with me. ( we are going to our house we just bought on on the lake.) The reason they don’t want me to take them is because the house is a trailer home and it doesn’t have enough bedrooms so i have to sleep on the couch so the bunnys wouldn’t be able to sleep in my bedroom. But they talked about them sleeping in the van now that it is warm enough outside. But then I still wouldn’t be with them at night so I guess it wouldn’t really make a difference. So should I try to let them out for exercise? We leave tomorrow!!!

[mocha200]

i just found out that we might stay there till the 4th of july…. if i can take the bunnys my mom said i should take NIC grids to make a cage because the dog kennel takes up to much room, BUT i just made this nice bunny play house ( i will post some pics) out of nic grids and i don’t want to take it apart before they get to use it! i would like to make a small cage out of nic grids that is like a condo so it doesn’t take up as much room. what should i do?

[Deleted User]

don’t worry, mocha200, the humping and running away is acceptable in a new bond. Deirdra used to try and mount Mops and he hated it and it would lead to a small chase but then resolve. As long as there is no real bad fighting — leave them together!
Definitely let them out for exercise.
I would take them along where you go, for your own peace of mind. Do you have some grids left-over?

[mocha200]

like maybe four.

[Deleted User]

ugh. that just makes one cube.
How long will you be away for?
If your dad is going to be watching them in your absence, I would leave them home then.

[mocha200]

well he works and he probably wont even go check on them if he here’s a noise. i could take some of it apart or i could maybe talk my mom into taking a dog kennel.

[mocha200]

Petzy: i think you should start another “your bunny projects! i have a lot of new ideas! and there have been a lot of new i ideas other people have had, such as beka’s shelf/ hidey box and someone made a cool diggy box!

[Deleted User]

yes, I saw beka’s cool shelf thing. I’m very envious. I don’t have a bunny project right now… but I might in the future!
mocha and Lulu will be fine either way. If they were to have a fight — it would have happened by now

[mocha200]

thats good because my mom and dad refuse to bring them in the house and we wont have a van that they could stay in like i thought i would. i am going to be soooo nervous though! but what if i end up staying for a weeks?

[Deleted User]

as long as your dad feeds and waters them — you will return home to two cemented bunnies

[mocha200]

ok… he also said he would check on them during the day!

[mocha200]

Posted By Petzy on 06/23/2010 02:08 PM
yes, I saw beka’s cool shelf thing. I’m very envious. I don’t have a bunny project right now… but I might in the future!
mocha and Lulu will be fine either way. If they were to have a fight — it would have happened by now

no i meant another “your bunny prodject” thread.

[Lintini]

Congrats Mocha! I knew you could do it!!

[mocha200]

I am going home tomorrow and can bring the bunnys up for the 4th of july but they have to stay out side in a pen ALL day and can’t come in till night! what should i do? should i bring them up, or leave them at home with a bad pet sitter? and i dought any one would take care of them on a holiday.

[Lintini]

Errr….depends….how bad are the fireworks in your area? I vaguely remember the bad babysitter, but I remember you posted about her…she didn’t follow your directions right? Oh, and how come they can’t come inside?

[mocha200]

yes she didn’t follow my directions. i have know idea why they can’t be inside, she just said only at night.

[Lintini]

Well I suppose if you could bring them inside once fireworks start then it could be better than leaving them with your bad babysitter?

[mocha200]

yes, we will leave them inside when we are gone and at the fireworks and when other people have fire works!

[Author]

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