Mimzy’s teeth

[MimzMum]

Okay, I’ve been vascillating on this for a few days, hoping it was not going to get serious, but today, I just made an appointment for Thursday in the afternoon to have Mimzy’s teeth looked at.

For a few days (since giving him the timothy hay cubes to eat when I ran out of hay) he’s seemed to have a wet chin one day, a weepy eye the next, then normal (some chattering of the teeth but no real grinding that I could tell), and then today chattering and wet chin…I can’t take it anymoe, he’s going to the vet.

Could something have gotten stuck in his teeth somewhere? Could there be some other problem like an infection? Or is it more likely something more serious like overgrown roots or something? His ears seem fine, his eyes are okay today (albeit the inner areas of the lids looked a little darker in color than I’m used to) and what can I do to ease any discomfort he may be in until Thursday?

He is eating and pooping normally. Activity level is good, he’s in the xpen hopping around right now. How can I help him? And what exactly should I expect my vet to do to properly examine him? (She is rabbit savvy, just not as much as I wish she were.)

[Scarlet_Rose]

Hi Mimz! I am glad you are taking him in. It sounds like there is some type of dental problem like maybe even spurs on the molars. I would say if he wasn’t eating normally to chop up veggies and have some Critical Care or pumpkin on hand – even some pedialyte to soften the pellets. I am intrigued though that this has only happened with the introduction of hay cubes. Does he still do it without the hay cubes? Is it possible he is slobbering all over himself from trying to chomp his big teeth around it? Also, maybe he is getting some of the dust from the cube in his eye, but that would not explain the drooling. Have you tried to break up the cube a little for him and see if that helps?

[MimzMum]

Well I stopped using the cubes because I got new timmy hay. He is not eating cubes currently. The others have no problem with them, but I’ve removed them from their pens also as a precaution.
He eats his pellets just fine also. This is part of what has me buggered.
Today he had chattering teeth, like a human in cold weather, and sometimes he does that when I’m petting him. So it’s hard to tell if he’s grinding, but he is also making a noise that reminds me of someone chewing ice and THAT I’ve never heard before, so better safe than sorry.

He ate his greens like a champ today. Almost all his hay was gone from his floor from last night. Otherwise he is happily bouncing around and was even digging holes in my bed covers last night. He seems totally normal but for the wetness and the strange tooth noises.
They’re not purrgrrs either. I know what those sound like on him and this noise is not that.

[Scarlet_Rose]

Hmm, it sounds like he is in pain because of the teeth crunching/grinding thing. But watch me be totally wrong as it seems Mimzy like to prove everyone wrong the stinker. Any recent injuries that you know of? All I can think is molars right now.

O.K. I’ve done some poking around and if it is really loud, then it is normally pain and could be abdominal pain.  However your guy is still eating.

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Rabbits-703/Grinding-teeth.htm

 

[Binkles]

I have to pop in here and just say that I think I know what you’re talking about when you mean ‘chattering.’ Little-Bit also does this little chatter-y thing sometimes that’s like when a human is cold, but it’s always when I’m grooming her, like it’s an addition to the normal teeth pur-chattering.

[MimzMum]

I would have a hard time telling when he is in discomfort, of all the ninja bunnies on this site who mask their pain, he is the Sensei. >.<

Yes, Binkles, that’s exactly it. He’s been chattering for months when I pet him and had no other symptoms, but this last few days, with the wet chin and the weepy eye for one morning…eh…no point in equivocating, he needs to be seen.

I just want to be sure I ask all necessary questions and have all exams done. Plus he could use a nail trim if the doc thinks it’s okay. ^_^

[Scarlet_Rose]

Hi Binkles, yes I do also know what you mean, but Mimzy is describing a very loud grinding of teeth, not a soft purr like she knows for certain is a purr of contentment.

Mimzy – That is too true of your guy. He’s a man’s man and covers it up very well.

[MimzMum]

No, Rose, I wouldn’t say it’s loud either. Just imagine if you had ice chips in your mouth, not even whole cubes and you were just quietly crunching them. That’s about it.
Geez, I wish I could get an audio file of it and play it. Either way, he’s going to the vet so that I can sleep at night. I can’t imagine having him hurting and doing nothing about it and if he’s okay, no harm done.

[Scarlet_Rose]

Hmm, O.K. so this really could be a purr of contentment then?  I misunderstoof your originaly interpretation of the whole scenario…sorry! But the drooling with it really has me thinking and I thought ice chips, that is loud grinding out of the norm.  http://en.allexperts.com/q/Rabbits-703/rabbit-noises-2.htm
I am trying to find an audio file with no luck.

[MimzMum]

I appreciate it, Rose, thanks so much! ^_^ Sorry to have you running around like a headless chicken. ~_~
I checked out both links you provided. The first one didn’t sound like what I was dealing with and, although Mimzy doesn’t relax int he xpen per se, he does flop completely out in his night pen and seems perfectly at ease. Almost apathetic, but not quite, as he’ll jump up if he hears me come in the room and often will investigate to see if I come bearing gifts. ^_^

He is not hunched up, nor is he turning down food, so I am not thinking this is abdominal.

Now Fiver will make little sighing noises like what is described in the second link, but Mimzy makes almost no vocalizations. I got a squeak out of Pip the other day trimming her nail (yes, she only let me have one) and I remember Mimzy making guinea pig noises many moons ago when I lifted him rather quickly from his pen the morning he was to be neutered, and I never forgot that noise and know that means he is scared. But he is not making any such sound today or in the last few days. He is alert and curious when I hold him and wanders around on my lap looking for things to sniff and get in to.

I jsut know it can go downhill fast if this is only the first signs and my vet receptionist agreed that he should come in. What bugs me is it’s Thursday…three days away, so I need to know what to look for and how to treat symptoms should he suddenly go south on me.

[Beka27]

of course, keep us updated!

(((((((((((((((“False Alarm” Mimzy Vibes!!!)))))))))))))))

[Deleted User]

MimzMum I hope he is alright and its just you being an over protective bunny Mama. But a a trip to the Vet would ease your mind. I am glad you are going.

((((((( Appropriate GOOD LUCK VIBES )))))))

[Sarita]

Do you notice him doing funny things with his mouth? Pepe would do funny things with his mouth like he was trying to “get comfortable” because his molar spurs were growing into his tongue. That was another indication with me for dental problems with Pepe. He ended up having molar spurs – he also drooled on me which made me think dental problems.

[Binkles]

Mimz, I’m praying for sweet Mimzy. =< I know it's especially hard when you have a sick bunny and you have to wait for help to come..

[MimzMum]

Thanks so much, everybun! ^_^ Today he seems fine still, no real wetness to speak of. Still going to take him in.
I just went and had my permanent crowns put on today…*UGH* I would rather have invasive surgery than go to the dentist.

What should my vet be doing to find molar spurs? Does she need to xray him? Will he need to stay overnight? I don’t want to just get an “Oh he seems fine,” brush-off.
And if he has something stuck in his teeth, would she be able to remove it without putting him under?

[Sarita]

Depends on how good your vet is with the othoscope – it is very difficult though to see inside those little mouths though unless they put them under (but it’s only gas not fully under). For molar spurs she won’t need to x-ray him but she may want to if she thinks it is something else so it really depends.

Most rabbits should not have to stay overnight for molar spur trims.

[MimzMum]

Well we’re back!

Turns out it was a good thing I took him in. Apparently his front teeth were beginning to grow a little long. He’s never had a problem with them before, but he’s got one now.

She trimmed his lower teeth to take off some sharp edges that were pushing his bite off (it is actually now a little sideways) and keeping the front teeth from joining properly. Sadly, in doing so, she took a (to me) rather large chunk off the outside of the lower left. But he is home and happily chewing his willow tent to pieces. She told me if he continues to have trouble I should bring him back in and they put him under and make sure he doesn’t have other issues.

She took her scope and looked in his mouth thoroughly, even felt around in there with the tip of her finger and a blunt instrument of some kind that reminded me of a pair of needle nosed pliers except curved at the ends. He was VERY good and put up with the whole thing, but when it came time for toenail trimmings, he’d decided he’d had about enough and got a little squirmy. lolz….

I am distressed about the chunk she took off his lower tooth. I asked her a few times if that would cause him biting difficulty or catch his tongue and she said no. But now that his toofies aren’t nice and straight anymore…well, jsut gives me more to worry about.

I also piggybacked Pip in to get her nails trimmed, as she’s been fighting me for weeks over them. The tech (who is usually very good with them) took her in the back while we were waiting for the doc. That bugged me, but they take thme in the back all the time and nothing goes awry. But within a few seconds I hear this terrific crash and I just KNOW it’s Pippi’s carrier!

I can’t leave Mimzy and I have to jsut sit tight and wait. A few minutes later she comes back in and says, “Poor Pip!”

I respond with, “That WAS her carrier, wasn’t it?”

The gal grins kind of sheepishly and apologetically and answers, “Yes, but only the carrier. When I got her out she started kicking it and I didn’t want her to fall, so I let go of the carrier and it fell on the floor. Sorry!”

Well I could see she meant it, but poor Pip! She was NOT happy and I put my hand in to pet her for awhile. I’d brought dried strawberries just in case something distressed her and it took me a few minutes to get her to eat one, but after some more noserubs you could see she was equivocating, “Hmmm…give human slave bunny butt? Or have more head pets? Tough choice.”

[Lightchick]

I’m so glad you found the problem! Yay for Mimzy! I’d rather know what the problem is so it can be dealt with than be reassured that everything is fine and suspect that it’s not!

So, she trimmed one tooth shorter than the other? Why?

I think Pip probably staged the whole carrier-debacle as an extortionist method to get noserubs and strawberries. And you fell for it!

Or…maybe she was trying to cause a rucous to distract everyone and save Mimzy! Maybe she’s not a diva…maybe she’s a revolutionary!

[Sarita]

Many times rabbits with dental problems take a few teeth trims to get their teeth just right because the vet needs to see the rate they grow and stuff. My vet usually likes to see the rabbit after 4 weeks to monitor their teeth after a trim initially.

[MimzMum]

lolz…Lightchick! Maybe so! Reminds me of that Disney version of Incredible Journey where all three animals are at that wildlife waystation and they take Chance in the back and the other two find some way to spring him. xD My favorite part is where Sassy is telling the guard, “Okay, THIS way thunderbutt, just don’t fall on me!”

Thanks Sarita, that makes me feel better. Yes I saw the spurs on his front teeth clearly, the one on the right came off without a hitch, but the left hand one was tougher and I think she nicked the tooth in a diagonal manner perhaps by accident, she didn’t want Mimzy to suddenly squirm and get loose.

The upper teeth had an almost plaque like color to the backs of them. Do bunnies get plaque? Or gingivitis?

I can just remember chipping a molar and the edge was sharper than it looked. I cut my tongue on that darned thing every time I ran it around in my mouth and I’m worried that Mimzy will cut his tongue on this corner because it looks pretty sharp. Although today he tore into his mini carrot like a champ and doesn’t seem to have any wet chin. I couldn’t hear any grinding last night either and all his pellets were gone form his bowl (he’d been leaving a few on the bottom, but I thought I was just giving him too many.)

She wants me to come back if he has any problems, but didn’t mention coming back in 4 weeks. She told me to give him wood to chew to help keep the teeth properly ground down.

[MooBunnay]

If Mimzy is doing OK and not hurting himself, I think that he will be OK! It sounds like it is not hurting him anymore, especially if he is able to eat well. I think it must be hard to trim bunny teeth which is probably why she didn’t get them exactly straight this time. Has he been eating enough hay? I know that is supposed to help keep teeth filed down as well. I’m thinking that piece of his teeth that looks so sharp will probably file down as he chews wood and hay and other items – so I would try to reduce pellets and veg just a bit to try to get him to eat even more hay just until the tooth doesn’t look as sharp.

[MimzMum]

That’s a good idea Moo, thank you! Yes, his hay eating has always been a bit lax, and there was a bit still left on the floor this morning, but I think he’s discarding the pieces he doesn’t find tasty and just eating the lighter stalks. Maybe that should’ve been my first clue that something was up. :-/

But won’t crunchy pieces of treat foods help also? Like should I offer deveined celery, slices of apple or carrot? I know they aren’t supposed to have lots of these, but he used to get a mini carrot per day when I first had him and he never had tooth problems then.
He’s NOT a big chewer, unlike Pip who is gnawing her way to China as we speak. I love this about him because his pen is in like new shape and none of his litter boxes are shredded. He did chew on a willow cane for a bit the other day, but it really doesn’t interest him. I know cardboard tubes won’t help.

About how much hay SHOULD he be consuming per day? I only place about two handfuls down; one a.m. one p.m., any more and he’ll just let it sit there. He also doesn’t like to be hand fed hay.
And I put a wood chew in with him too, hoping he’ll suddenly get the urge. My vet told me to get fresh branches, but I’m not sure which trees here are safe or if I could tell a poisonous tree from a safe one.

[MimzMum]

Okay, so I have a few more questions before this thread disappears into the ethers….

Now, I hung some chewing blocks in Mimzy’s pen last night. I also left him some willow sticks to chew. He was working furiously away at them this morning. I honestly expected them to be nothing but a few splinters when I opened my eyes. But after at least two hours of chewing noises, there were only a few divots left behind in each of the blocks and sticks. If Pip or Fiver had been making that much noise, I would’ve expected to have nothing to clean up after in the aftermath.
Could he still be having problems? Would he even BE chewing anything if he had problems? Also, I was feeling the line of his jaw (the vet did too) and it seems to me it angles lower in the back…is this normal? I know a human jaw is thicker in the front than the back, Mimzy’s seems to be the exact opposite. Someone posted links to jaw xrays here awhile ago, but I can’t find them now. Could his molars be growing long roots and that’s what I am feeling? *goes off to see if Pip or Fiver have jawbones like this for comparison*
Also, I hadn’t thought of this when we saw the vet. He actually has been scratching at his jaw on either side for quite a while now. I mean months. (I think I posted a long time ago that I was concerned he might have an ear infection, but vet observation showed up no evidence of that.) I wonder if I should’ve mentioned that when I saw the vet, but I’d forgotten about it. Could that also be an indication that he is having root problems?

He still eats his greens and treats well and devoured some hay this morning when I put it in, but still not a lot of hay. I’m wondering if he’s having trouble just getting it in his mouth due to the broken part of his lower front tooth now. But he binkied and explored quite a bit when I put him in the xpen…so he can’t be in any pain, right?

Can you tell I’m a worry wart?

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

I think if they were still bothering him he’d not be chewing at all! It does take them a long time to chew wood chews though!!

Try putting hay in four times a day rather then twice, fresh food gets them excited and they tend to eat more

[MimzMum]

Thanks K&K, yes I put his hay into one of our lovely Binky Willow baskets to tempt him to nom and he’s furious with me. I have to put the hay back down on the floor or he just won’t eat it. He does seem to like smaller amounts more frequently. I think it has to do with how often he sees me at the side of the pen. (Pretty egotistical of me, huh?) Spoiled little bun! ^_^

Well here’s a strange….

I KNOW I saw the vet take a huge chunk off his left front lower tooth when she clipped them. I even wrote a little note to Dana Kremples and asked her advice on the matter. I included a crappy little illustration, since I knew I wouldn’t get Mim to smile for the camera.

But when I went to put Mimzy in his night pen yesterday, I finally got him to lay back for me so I could check his teeth. I keep reading that clipping is NOT good for them as they can stress fracture and cause all sorts of bad juju for bunny.

So what do I see when I open his mouth???

…

Nice, EVEN incisor surfaces. No breaks. No chips. No sign that the vet had done a thing with them. 0_0

Okay…either I am losing what little is left of my mind, or his teeth are growing back in at a furious rate. Or he wore all the edges back down to flat already?? It doesn’t seem possible! The top incisors still look a little off, but she didn’t clip those.

…

Please someone tell me I’m not going insane. I SWEAR I about died when I saw my vet take off that much of his tooth, I asked her about it three times! It looked terrible and I felt so bad for him.

What on earth do you all think happened here?

[Scarlet_Rose]

Here is some interesting info I found on teeth:

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Rabbits-703/2008/8/Bunny-2-teeth-pulled-1.htm

Mimz – FYI, I put this discussion in the FAQ section and will pin this for a little while so you can find it.

…and another reference

http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?cls=18&cat=1803&articleid=3078

 

 

[MimzMum]

Thanks Rose! ^_^ I really appreciate it!

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

Well I’m boggled and I’ve no idea, but keep us posted Mimzy!!

[MimzMum]

Well here’s the answer to my question to Dana. And true enough, she was correct. I still can’t believe that the minor amount of chewing Mimzy did since the tooth clipping was enough to wear all that chipped surface down!

Anyway, he seems okay. I cut back his pellets and greens and now his hay goes away a lot faster than it used to. I still think his tooth purrs are a little louder than I remember, but maybe that’s just because I have Pip and Fiver to compare him to now. They are both almost too quiet to hear when purring.

Here’s the link and article:

Answered Question

Subject Unevenly clipped tooth
Question

tooth cut illustration
Hello Dr. Krempels,
You were kind enough to assist me with my Holland Lop some months ago. I have a question regarding some veterinary care I received for him recently.
He is approximately 1.5 years old and was just to the vet for an exam. I had thought he might be grinding his teeth and he’d been doing some minimal drooling down his chin, plus he’d had one instance of mild weepy eye. He was eating and voiding well, but the grinding was a red flag for me.
She took a look at him (no xray) and decided the lower incisors were growing a long spur behind the upper incisors and brought out a clipping tool to remove the spurs. On the right side she did just fine and removed the offending tooth matter, (my bun was very patient during the whole ordeal) but on the left side my bunny suddenly began moving and so my vet hurried the procedure and subsequently the tooth was cut in a manner which left an uneven edge angling down toward the lip and cheek side of the tooth. (please see my illustration attached) I am concerned that this will cause him more tooth problems than less, or even cut his tongue or cheek during chewing motions.
She is the only rabbit experienced vet in my town. Should I return him to her to have his other teeth looked at under anesthesia and possibly have anything uneven ground down with a Dremel tool, or should I just wait and see if he has further trouble and hope the teeth grow back to their proper meeting places?
Thank you very much for your time.
Regards,
Mary
Answer Dear Mary,

Sorry for the delay. Had a bit of computer down time!

I wouldn’t worry too much about the slightly uneven cut. Just keep an eye on it, and I’m betting the uneven area will be smooth in a few days with his normal chewing.

Watch for any sign of chewing discomfort, but I doubt he will show any.

We never clip the teeth. We use a Dremel to cut them, thus avoiding fractures that can cause problems. If the problem isn’t severe, even a nail file might do to smooth a rough edge a bit.

But I suspect this will not be a problem, and will pretty much disappear in a few days.

Hope this helps.

Dana

http://www.allexperts.com/user.cgi?m=6&catID=703&qID=4742281

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

Ha! Great!! So it did wear down!! That’s great

[Author]

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