Mimzy – Possible Stasis? Gas? Or just dehydrated?

[MimzMum]

Mimzy has only eaten minimally in the last 18 hours from what I can tell. When I went to clean him this afternoon, his litter pan was very wet (lots of romaine last night) but his poos were all very small. some were shaped oddly, like a peanut in shell, but about half to 1/4 the size they normally are. He also didn’t eat any of his Oxbow pellets last night, which I think he’s starting to shun anyway. (He’s been untranceable lately, so checking his teeth is difficult if not impossible.)

His breathing seemed slower than normal and he wasn’t as fidgety as he usually is. I can pick him up, but then he promptly kicks to get away, not as hard as usual. He digs in his box like a madman. He does move about a bit. I could get him to bite pieces of hay in half, but he wouldn’t swallow much. In my presence, he has nibbled down a few rose petals, two carrot shavings, and half an APD veggie cookie. Note that this time of day is NOT his usual chow time, so he’s really not interested in the first place.

(His normally beloved timothy treats are lying forgotten in the bottom of his pen. He also would not take them from my hand.)

Gave him 0.6 of a dropper of mylicon, which seemed to have some effect about an hour later. I’ve forgotten the correct dosage so I erred on the side of caution. Plus I don’t want to give him too much if he is going into stasis and slow his digestive tract down further.

Belly is not firm. Except for what feels like muscle down the center. I felt Pip’s belly and can feel the same thing…just bigger. (Somebun needs to go on a diet.)

He seemed ‘off’ to me, but with his nose stuff going on, I don’t see him doing much these days anyway. After a few hours observation, I put him back in his habitat and offered him a crock of water, since his bottle doesn’t look like he’s touched it in awhile. He proceeded, after I wet his nose with some on my finger, to go back and drink deeply at least TEN TIMES. I was shocked. He has never drunk water from a crock, much less like this! I was very heartened to see him take in so much water. He can’t be too bad off if he’s drinking that much, right?

He is currently loafing and accepting any and all head pets. No hunched body position. Actually I just heard him shift and run to his box, so I went in to make sure he was okay and must’ve scared him becasue he came right back out without doing anything.

I did notice the other night a strange noise (I honestly thought it was tooth grinding at first) coming from him that I didn’t recognize…but since he began sneezing right afterwards, I decided it was the nose again and gave him Benadryl. So this may have dried him up a bit, hence why I overloaded romaine last night. Unfortunately, he tends not to eat as much of his hay when I give him greens, so I am probably to blame for his current condition.

He seems to be acting like his normal self, but I’m keeping watch. He does have an appointment set up (for his nose) but it’s not till next Wednesday. I know I should probably just bundle him up and off to the vet, but I am encoraged that he’s not completely turning down nourishment. I do not have any Critical Care onhand, but I do have probiotics and Benebac.

What should I be looking for and (even if it’s an E.R. visit-which it’s going to be for the next 14 hours) when do I put him in his carrier and blaze to town? If he eats or drinks or poops, is that okay? Or does he need to go in regardless? What can I or should I encorage him to eat besides hay and water?

[jerseygirl]

On the gas meds: “1-2 cc (20mg/ml suspension) can be given as often as every hour for three doses, then 1 cc every three to eight hours.” http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/ileus.html You can’t overdose him on this stuff.

It’s good he got fluids from the greens night before and lots from drinking from the crock (Great!!) Maybe put him out for some exercise to help things move? Scatter some hay around and see if he goes to graze.

If it were me…. If he’s eating and pooping at the moment, I would monitor and take him to regular vet when you can. Do what you can to encourage everything along. I would take him in after to the vet who knows him just to check out what may have brought this on. Gas, UTI, tetth, other???? Of course, easy for me to say hypothetically what I would do if it were one of mine – different when you’re actually experiencing it!!

(((Mimzy)))

Edit to add:  MM, this is from another fave article of mine. http://www.mybunny.org/info/gi_stasis.htm  “Microwaved pellet mixes. In a small bowl, add about 1-2 tablespoons of your rabbit’s pellets and enough water to cover them, with a tiny bit to spare. Microwave for 15-20 seconds, until water is absorbed and pellets are puffed almost completely apart (looks a bit like fluffed rice). Fluff with fork an allow to cool until luke- warm and give to bunny. Often the aroma will entice bunny to eat.   “Microwaved pellet mixes. In a small bowl, add about 1-2 tablespoons of your rabbit’s pellets and enough water to cover them, with a tiny bit to spare. Microwave for 15-20 seconds, until water is absorbed and pellets are puffed almost completely apart (looks a bit like fluffed rice). Fluff with fork an allow to cool until luke- warm and give to bunny. Often the aroma will entice bunny to eat. “

Maybe give this a go?

[MimzMum]

Oops…my bottle says that every 0.3 ml is equal to 20 mg. 0_0 So I gave him twice that.

I just peeked at him and he is eating a big mouthful of hay on his own and is sitting in the litter pan again. *whew* Most of the water is gone from the crock as well.
My poor boy, I wonder why he stopped drinking from the bottle? My only guess is that in having to lift his face upward to sip at it, this must put more pressure on his already snotty sinuses. It just must not be comfortable anymore.

[MimzMum]

Ah we must’ve posted simultaneously, I didn’t see the recipe until I scrolled up again. Thanks Jerz, we’ll try that!

[jerseygirl]

Oops…my bottle says that every 0.3 ml is equal to 20 mg. 0_0 So I gave him twice that.

So that’s like just giving the 2cc’s of the above formula isn’t it? So that would be fine…. think.   I get really confused with this stuff – I’d make a terrible nurse!!

[MimzMum]

Only on this board can poo be so fascinating…

Hence:

He’s made a dozen of these since I posted last. And he’s peed. I refilled his crock for him and I saw him munching some more hay. When his poos get to look closer in size to the ones I pictured from the other two bunnies, I’ll feel a lot better.

[jerseygirl]

LOLOL! Oh MM!!!!! & even with the animal ruler too…..*gasps to regain breath* lol
 

Only on this board can poo be so fascinating…

We should celebrate this fact.  Also should celebrate that Mimz is pooping – yay!

Anyway, hydration & fibre should get his back to looking like the other twos (no pun intended.) fyi, Jerseys look pretty much like Mimzys current poos  (again, no pun intended) all the time but more mishapen. Unfortunately.

[MimzMum]

Wow, really? 0_0 OMG, I think I would be frantic if he even kept this up for another day, these are so not like his normal…although even that isn’t as large as the others’. Is that due to her not digesting the hay properly or something else?

Geez, if I’d known I could make you laugh this hard, I’d have posted poop pix much sooner. ^_^
And the ruler is from when the kids’ were tiny, years ago. It’s the only one I had! ~_~

He actually had a bit of hand fed hay half an hour ago. As long as stuff is going in and coming out, we should be okay. But I don’t think I’m going to sleep much tonight.

[jerseygirl]

Rescue Remedy for you and Mimz?

On Jersey….I don’t know. She needs to up the fibre though, that helps things but nothing is consistant. She drinks a lot yet none of it seems to hydrate her gut content. Most often its always like bits of gravel.

[MimzMum]

Yes that’s exactly what I’m seeing…they seem like gravel, very compact.
My poor bun. He’s getting tired of seeing me today. I just got bunny butt when he’d had enough hand feeding. >_<

[rosalie68]

jack was having poop like that the other day. same color and size. when i talked to my vet she said as long as they have a lot of them then not to worry but just to keep an eye on them. she said if they poop really small and there are only a few poops or none then their gut is slowing down. after jack having them for a day and scaring the crap out of me his poop went back to normal the next day. i don’t know anything about gas or what foods make small or big poop and thankfully havent went through gi stasis (knock on wood) so i dont have much to offer except that jack had those same poops. jack also did the same thing the first time i gave him a crock of water and switched out the bottle. he seemed to drink a lot more and have an easier time with it. i hope you bunny feels better soon. btw- i also love the poop pics and the ruler lol. awesome!

kim

[MimzMum]

Thanks Rosalie, I’m keeping my fingers crossed that Mimzy is back to normal tomorrow too.
I guess it wouldn’t bother me quite as much if the vet weren’t 30 miles away on a snowy road.

[rosalie68]

the 30 mile snowy road is what i had to do today to get my buns neutered ugghh!! scary!! we had an ice storm here all day yesterday and it would figure that they would be scheduled for neutere early this morning. we just drove super slow. took about an hour to get there but we made it. oh i just saw that u are in alaska. well, that prob means our ice storm wasnt crap compared to the snow u must have lol. i will cross my fingers too for mimzy. come on big poops ;o)

kim

[Lintini]

Oooo Mimzy you have a ill one too Let’s huddle together! I am glad to hear he is poo’n now. I really hope he feels even better tomorrow! My thoughts and prayers are with you as well! *hug*

[MimzMum]

Thanks for all the well wishes everyone. He’s appearing rather comfy right now, in his loafing position. If I try to give him hay to eat, he lowers his head for nose rubs…lol.
If RabbitPam were here, she’d be telling me he was hoping for a new way to gain my attention. *rolls eyes*

[KatnipCrzy]

Simethicone (gas meds) really only has a mechanical action on the gut- it does not absorb- it helps break down gas bubbles.  When Schroeder was so ill and so uncomfortable- I found the max dose could be every 2 hours (granted this was a bunny that has already been seen 3 times by  a vet)- so I gave 2 mls every 2 hours- setting a timer thru the night- along with the Metacam as prescribed.  As he got better I increased the time between Simethicone dose and lowered the dose as I was afraid to do anything that might make him stop eating on his own once he got past the force feeding.

I guess my point is- I gave Schroeder A LOT of Simethicone over 5-7 days- maybe it was a waste of money- but he survived and since it is not absorbed like a med and only works to break down gas bubbles- I did tummy massages too- don’t freak if you give 3 mls instead of 2 or etc- and I say that only because of the way that it works.  It would be a different story altogether for most other bunny meds.

[MimzMum]

Thanks Kat! I feel better about that dose definitely! I think it must’ve been what he needed, although I am used to him thumping loudly for me if he has gas. Not this time though.

Well I wound up staying up with him all night, till about 5 this morning. By 4 he had made more poos and eaten some more hay and I saw him at the water crock frequently. This afternoon, I counted no less than 100 bb’s, all of much nicer size, throughout his pen…although still not quite the size I want out of him, but hey, I’ll take it! ^_^ He seems much more comfortable now also and ate a veggie cookie for me. That’s the only one he’s getting today though, as I want him to eat more hay.

The hand feeding seems to be doing well for him. Sometimes he’ll blow me off, but most times I can tickle him enough to start chewing on it. I had forgotten how much we used to do the hand feed when he first came here. I’d run out to his “Bun-Galow” several times a day (before he became a house bunny) and he’d be hiding behind his door (he’s always done that, funny…) and I’d feed him his dandelion leaves and fresh grass/hayseed from the yard and a carrot piece or two (young bunny owner not too smart, but he loved it of course.) But he wouldn’t eat unless I handed it to him. It was the most touching part of the beginning of our relationship.

Needless to say, he got a lot more fresh air and exercise in the summer too…so I’m going to have to get him moving. He’s definitely become a bit of a slug, but he doesn’t have much choice in winter. Especially since we had to cut the house in half due to the cats fighting.

I think he’ll make it through the weekend now without too much more difficulty, but I’m keeping a hawkeye on him just in case. I think he appreciates the extra worry, he seems to be a type T bun…goes for the thrill of watching the bunny slave run around like a headless chicken, wringing her hands.

Fiver is most definitely feeling ignored. I’ve seen nothing but bunny butt for the last 24. I’ll have to give him some extra snuggles today to make up for it. He was VERY agitated when I brought Mimzy out yesterday and not him…perhaps he could tell Mimzy was in some distress.

I also went over all the things I thought could’ve started this: one conclusion I came to is that he needs a less varied diet, not more. Too much green food for him is not good because then he won’t eat the bulk he needs to maintain his digestion. So mostly hay and water, fewer treats-and only one type at a time, (he had too many different types of treats/chewables over the holiday and it may have overwhelmed his tummy) and I’m going to try to get him to eat more willow for some treats, so that he gets more fiber, which may not work if his teeth are hurting him. But mostly we’ll concentrate on timothy and oat hays to keep him regular.

I do think he was somewhat dehydrated. The way he’s gone at the water crocks is nothing short of stunning. He did use the smaller water bottle I hung for him last night, late. I changed his other out for fear that I may not have washed/rinsed it properly and perhaps he got some soap or something in his tummy and that’s why he hadn’t drunk from it at all the night before last and yesterday. So I’m switching to a vinegar/water rinse for them instead. (BTW, how often does everyone here clean out water bottles?)
Crocks are infinitely easier to clean, but I am just waiting for him to tip these, since they are floor level and not secured like the bottles are. And of course, you have to remove all the daily ‘floaties’.
Someone recently posted about secure water crocks (the type to fasten on the pen bars), does anyone remember what they were called or where to get them, please? I may have to invest in some.

I still think there may be a tooth issue coming up, as he didn’t eat those pellets and he didn’t seem to care that they were missing last night. He just drank from the water crock I placed on his shelf instead.
lol…You guys should’ve seen him trying to figure out where to put his ears while drinking from the bowls. It was like Spock raising one eyebrow. I never realized how puffy his cheeks are before that.
He did snork some up his nose at first and that would set off the sneezing, but now he has learned to just let the excess drip on the floor and he picks it up later.

All in all… here’s the thing: He’s going in to the vet next Wednesday as scheduled (earlier if he relapses, of course) but I was going to have her look up his nose/check his teeth/possible xrays if indicated again and maybe prescribe a new round of antibiotics. Now I’m afraid to do so with this (almost) stasis scare. What if his tummy turns again and he stops eating on the new round? Should I put it off? But his nose is still so snotty and I want to clear that up so he’ll feel more like eating. What to do?

Also I heard something on the news about some kinds of honey being good for killing URI’s. But that was for humans. Do you think some kind of adjunct therapy could be developed that would work for a bunny? Or would the sugar content just be too much for their systems? I do notice that his nose is worse when he eats anything sweet, like blueberries or carrots, so it seems kind of contraindicatory.

So yeah…back to worrying. *bites nails*

[jerseygirl]

I think you should definately keep his appt Wednesday. Yes, going on some meds could cause loss of appetite and gut slow down, but also something did possibly already cause gut slow down. I also think if you have any probiotics on hand and he manages them well, start getting some of them into him now in case he is put on antibiotics again.

For what’s it’s worth, I also think not to bother with honey. Waaay to high in sugar, it’s like 70% sugar. I have heard something about honey for hayfeaver sufferers. If you have honey local to your area, it contains pollens (or is produced from pollens) that may effect the sufferer and in honey it has sort of a homeopathic effect I think. Like small doses that help desensitize the allergy sufferer. Something like that…

A crock sounds like it’s going to work well for him. Those clip on ones are not too wide also, which would be good as his ears can sit easily on either side.   I use crocks. I’m going to get a small fish tank net to scoop out the floaties that settle in there.

[MimzMum]

Ah that sounds familiar too…perhaps it was already suggested here. Because I know I did do a search for local honey, and when I found the place that sold it, no one ever answered my attempts to contact them. I think it may have been for my allergies that I was doing this too. :-/
Well I do want him seen, antibiotics or not. He needs a good checkup anyway. *nods* And if we wind up with xrays, she can take a look at his tummy too and be sure there’s nothing obstructing there.

[MimzMum]

Oh…and how long do probiotics last in the fridge? I’ve had some in there since summer, when he was taking the Pen-G injections, but I’ve no idea if they’re still viable or not?

lol…I can just see that Jerz…you there, with your little net, fishing for bb’s… xD

[jerseygirl]

lol ^ I didn’t mean those kind of floaties!

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

Oh Mimz-I just saw this-how scary!!!

But umn-on that poop picture-hmmmm I wonder if it’s time for another poop thread. Maybe poops beside rulers-or creative poop art (Hey!! I saw it on another forum waaaay back in the day and it was a riot-time to get down with rabbit poop art methinks)

Mimz-do you know the name of the probiotic? Then you could google the shelf life-OR call the company itself actually-then you could give them the lot number and they could tell you for sure if it’s active.
Also-I wouldn’t do it until after the antibiotics-as the antibiotics-kill-biotics like probiotics (I mean it depends on what antibiotic and what the probiotic is but generally you want to give after. If you have enough for before and after you might as well do both but if it’s a choice do after) so after is when you want to give it. Same with us-nosh some yogurt after a course of antibiotics

[RabbitPam]

Ahem. RabbitPam is now here.
A bit late ( ) but since it’s Wednesday, I am hoping that you’ve just been to the vet and either have something to report, or have new poos since the 22nd that are King Sized.

Ironically, I had to leave work because I had a tummy ache, well, the whole digestive tract, and came home to “wait for some action.” I am sitting quite comfortably with my laptop now, feeling like a faker, but when I stand up I get a little reminder of why I’m home. Thought it was something I ate, but my boss thinks it’s from the volunteer who came in last week that we sent home sick with a stomach bug. I can’t stand people who show up knowing they’re sick, so I went home because my boss needs to be careful not to catch anything to give to her daughter right now. Another long story.

So how is Mimzy now?
(And MM, only you would post comparitive poo pix with a kid’s ruler. The mind reels from the Photoshop possibilities…)

[Cassi&Charlie]

Ok, I’m coming in on this really late too. Is Mimzy ok? (((Mimz)))

[jerseygirl]

On the probiotics, I agree on giving after antibiotics too.   My own thought on giving them before was in regards to post-stasis… Would they help beneficial bacteria regain balance after a stasis episode? If in fact they do work? I’m kinda in 2 minds on their value but I certainly don’t think it can hurt to give them incase there are some benefits.

Would love to hear an update after the vet too MM.

[MimzMum]

Oh FINALLY! ^_^ Geez, I’ve been trying to get logged in for an hour already! >_< (This had better post after all the work I went through to type it…lol!)
OKAY…so I already sent an email to RabbitPam thinking I wasn’t going to get in here tonight…so I’ll just cut and paste if you guys don’t mind.
——
After another one of Mr. Toad’s Wild Rides into town, Dr. Hansen took a look in (Mimzy’s) mouth with an otoscope after I told her about last week’s stasis episode. She saw hooks on his left side molars but the right side (which he’s been scratching furiously for months) is full of mucous (ew?! ) and what looks like ground up grass. So he will be going back on Friday to be put under and have his teeth ground and that right side cleaned and taken care of.
Sadly, where she is okay with pulling incisors, she would have to refer us to a different vet to pull molars if necessary. She is not satisfied with her own skills in this area with how delicate bunny teeth and jawbones are. This is a vet all the way on the other side of town. I hate the idea that Mimz may have to be put under twice. Hopefully one of the other vets at our practice is a bit more sure of herself to do the job while he’s under if it comes to that. (BTW, Mimzy’s Dr. is a champion vet and today my opinion of her soared further…not many would be honest enough to put forth that they do not feel comfortable doing an operation…I really appreciate her candor!)
Radiographs will be taken also, to determine if there’s any abscess or overgrowth of tooth roots.
She did say his tummy felt good, so no masses or hairballs there. It did seem empty to her, but heck, he hadn’t really eaten all day because…well the hubby’s driving is not conducive to a leisurely bunny meal. >.<
He has gained a little weight since he was last seen, so that is good.
So first thing Friday about 7-8 AM, hubby takes him back in and we’ll know more that evening. I worry that Mimzy is in some pain, but it’s not bad enough apparently that Dr. thought he should have metacam so soon after a stasis scare.
He sat so good for her. Except for the otoscope on his right side, which was obviously sore or irritated…he put up a bit of a fight there.
No antibiotics yet, so there’s a dodged bullet.
*sigh* So…that’s the poop, the whole poop and nothing but the poop.
——-
Now I just have a few questions. Will he have to be given painkillers if they file his teeth? If so, besides probiotics-which I will insist on, what can I do to help his possible tummy upset while he’s taking it?

I asked the doc if she’d heard of Gentimycin, (which she had), but she drew a blank at Bisolvon (Jerz, you pointed me at that UK bun site that gave us those names) so I’m hoping that will be the AB of choice if it has to be given. I told her that we’ve given up on Benadryl, since it dries out his system too much.
Is it possible he’ll be given antibiotics after a tooth filing and does anyone have a speculation about why there’s mucous in Mimzy mouth on the right side? (I’m worrying that it’s like the other member here whose bunny had food impacting on one side of her lop’s mouth and it had to be cleaned daily and no seedheads in his hay.) Could there be some way that the nasal congestion is pooling in his mouth?

I worry about him feeling pain, but he can’t be hurting too bad, he still gobbles up Oxbow Veggie cookies when offered. ^_^

The worst part is letting the DH drive him in and retrieve him. His driving used to not bother me, but now that I’m getting older (and who knows what kind of time I have left here on Earth?) I’d really like it if he’d calm down at the wheel and not go like a bat out of you-know-where every time we go anywhere!
>_< I guess I can't give any Rescue Remedy to the bun before he leaves huh? It might interfere with his anesthesia. Poor Mimz! But I may drink the whole bottle. 0_0

[Monkeybun]

Sounds like your hubby is related to my hubby.. he is so hard on his cars!

((((vibes to Mimzy and Mimz!)))))

Hope it goes well, and that there’s an answer in there somewhere for his issues, poor little guy

[jerseygirl]

Hopefully after the teeth are filed you may find there’s less fluid in his nose….hopefully!! I guess on friday they’ll be able to have a real good look at his mouth and see where this mucous is coming from. I think similar to you on this – that it may be draining into his mouth from nasal cavity or even throat (????is that possible with rabbits???) They won’t know til they can look I guess. Great on the radiographs too. Really hope you get some clear answers.

Thanks for the update. Hopefully Sarita will weigh in on the molar spurs/metacam given her experiences with Pepe.

[MimzMum]

Okay, another quick question…should I hand feed him throughout the day today, or just let him rest like he usually does? I’m sure he’s not going to feel like eating tomorrow, and I don’t want another stasis episode. Any advice?

[RabbitPam]

Just my opinion, but I would offer him food periodically and see if he takes it but don’t force it. Since bunnies shouldn’t go for long periods without eating, but we all know they have less appetite after procedures, I’d give him the opportunity to eat small quantities when he wants it, but not worry too much while he’s a bit off his feed for a while. If he refuses for many hours at a time, you might want to have a slushy ready to give him a squirt, so it’s soft.

[LittlePuffyTail]

How is Mimzy now? I just read through this thread Poor little guy and poor little Mimzmum…

[Binkles]

My gosh, I just read this as well. Poor Mimzy. D: (((((((vibes for both))))))) How is he doing now?

I’ve never even heard of molars being pulled. How would he eat?

[MimzMum]

Okay guys, Mimzy came through his dental really well. I put another thread up in Q&A about it since it’s no longer a stasis matter.
Sarah, molars can be pulled on a bun, but you have to pull both side (top and bottom I guess?) because otherwise the one that’s no longer touching a tooth begins to overgrow. And I guess they have some to spare, so….
Sadly Mimzy does have some abscess action going on, so we’re going to put him back on antibiotics. Doc wants to see him again in 6-8 weeks to do more radiographs.
Please see my post entitled Mimzy’s dental for the thrilling conclusion to our story! ^_^
And thanks so much for all the well wishes. you guys are the best! (((((((((hugs you all))))))))))))))

[Author]

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