Mid-stage bonding advice, what next?

[theo_ct]

Hello all,

Hero & Pumpkin are being re-bonded after a long separation following a serious surgery in which Hero had to be alone to recover (she had a tumor removed). They’ve been dating in a neutral area in our small kitchen and are at the stage where they eat together, mutually groom, and loaf together. This took a month or more. Seeing this progress, we decided to move on to a new zone with a larger area. However, this immediately made them return to nipping and chasing, and it wasn’t pleasant for anyone involved! We are really worried we will lose too much progress and Pumpkin (submissive) will become afraid of Hero again, like she was at the start.

So I have a question – should we return to the old zone, and just try expanding from there, introducing litter boxes, etc? Or persevere with a new space, going through most of the bonding process again..? How do you actually build on the progress you make initially, in other words?

Thanks!

Info:

2 x females, both spayed

7 and 8 years old

Hero is a lop, Pumpkin lionhead

Indoor house bunnies, normally free roam

Bonding sessions 4+ hours at a time

Previously bonded before surgery and separation for about a year

 

[Wick & Fable]

Good rule of thumb is stick to what works — I think expanding in the old bonding space where you saw progress is a good idea, rather than rushing into a space and potentially hurting the relationship currently built-up.

This “new space” that you tried and it didn’t work out — is it semi-neutral (i.e., both rabbits have been exposed to it; not new)? If so, I’d use the time they are in the old bonding space to try and neutralize this “new space” as much as possible, especially if it is eventually where you want them to be long-term.

Alternatively or after successfully getting smoothly through expansion in the old bonding place, starting with a smaller space in the “new space” could be wise. Starting “big” in a new space is definitely welcoming to starting some territorialness in the rabbits (especially if it’s a semi-neutral zone).

The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.

[theo_ct]

Thank you, this is very useful advice!

Yes the new space was ‘semi-neutral’ – Hero had been in there but not to that specific part of the room. We hoovered and removed her items from it before putting them in, but I think you are right this may have affected how the bonding went.

I put them back in the old kitchen zone and much of the tension lifted, although there was a bit more chasing than previously. We will stick to that space from now on and gradually enlarge.

We will definitely work on neutralising the next space they go into.

[DanaNM]

Agree with Wick! I would work on doing long sessions in the neutral space first. Once you get to sessions that are many hours long (including a possible overnight) without issues, then they will be more ready for semi-neutral.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[theo_ct]

Hi again guys,

Sorry to revive this thread but I need some advice as we’ve now moved on to much longer bonding sessions. The situation is that they are living together in a neutral space, but at night they need to be separated with a barrier between them. There is still intermittent nipping and it’s starting to really affect my life supervising them basically 24/7 – I need a way to keep them safely together. I’m starting to wonder if they might just have to live side by side rather than actually together – once their barrier is removed in the morning they seem to be more territorial, and the litterboxes cause some dominance. But without the litterboxes, it’s a total nightmare and they use the floor as a toilet.

So in short, made a lot of progress, but still so far off the goal of actual bonding, which i’m starting to question. Any perspective appreciated!

Thank you

[DanaNM]

Where are you doing the bonding sessions? And how long have you been marathoning?

If you are just removing the barrier between their living spaces, it is expected that they would act territorial because at night they are claiming the space, making it less neutral territory. Sorry if I’m misunderstanding the situation. I use puppy pee pads on the floor instead of litter boxes, as litter boxes do tend to cause issues when added too early.

Do you mostly see the issues in the morning when they go back together? Have you tried doing 48 hours straight with them yet?

Whenever I’ve gotten stuck in a rut like this, I’ve found it can help a ton to move to an entirely new location and marathon bond there. Even when a space is neutral, sometimes the area becomes less neutral over time, and even being in the smelling range of the home-turf can cause more territorial issues.

In my experience, I either saw huge improvement in 24 hours, or I didn’t, and decided things weren’t going to work out. Do you have a friend or relative’s house that you could do a weekend marathon in? I’m wondering if you could do one more final push before making the call to just have them live as neighbors.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[theo_ct]

We were in a neutral space for this – we did 48 hours marathon. We did use litterboxes after 24 hours, so this might be where we went wrong. We might have to go a stage back to dating, as our hectic work schedules won’t allow for another 24/48 hour bonding session soon unfortunately.

I have access to a friend’s house but we wouldn’t be able to do a full day’s bonding – perhaps it would be worth doing a date there?

Thanks for your advice

[DanaNM]

That’s tough, it’s hard to say whether the boxes were the problem (if only we could read their little bunny minds). At this point, what are the positive behaviors your seeing and what are the negatives? Is the main pattern of aggression based on the time of day or do you see another trigger?

But it’s OK to take a break and go back to normal dating if you need to (I had to do this with some past pairs as well, that I did eventually bond down the road). I think doing a date or two in a new space could be helpful, even if you can’t marathon there. Sometimes a change in scenery really seems to help.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[theo_ct]

Positives are mutual grooming, eating together, loafing together, and ignoring each other. Negatives are nipping and humping, but these only seem to happen when Pumpkin takes a wee, which triggers Hero the dominant bunny to get territorial. Night time and late evening also seems to trigger aggression, we can’t work out why at all. During a 24/7 bond I woke up multiple times after midnight due to nipping and chasing, which is why I had to put a barrier between them the first time.

We went back to dating today and it looks like we’re back to a good place with less attacking and more grooming, but of course a step back in terms of space and progress.

 

 

[DanaNM]

What happens if you don’t intervene with the nipping? Does it resolve on its own or escalate to a scuffle?

Same with the mounting, does it just lead to some chasing, or does it turn into a fight? Mounting is be OK (and happens in bonded pairs too), and if the chasing is due to a mounting attempt it may help to just observe and let it play out for a bit as long as it doesn’t start escalating (rather than immediately intervening).

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

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